starrymessenger

A bust is a bust and a bust is rock bottom however you want to slice it. When all is said and done I think that Allen is a riskier pick than Sam Darnold, though they could both bust. Each has a very high ceilings but again, because of Allen's greater downside risk profile he is less likely than Darnold to achieve it IMO.

Point well taken. It's not flag football in shorts but it's not full throttle either. But frankly my impression is that Allen would have looked a lot better in a big time college program like the ones he so desperately tried to gain admission to even if the competition would also have been at a higher level. He was better in 2016 than he was in 2017 before losing 4 skill position players to the NFL. He did not execute a QB friendly offence either and I'd have to think that with a tailored scheme, a ground game and blue chip receiving talent surrounding him (think Mayfield, Rudolph and others from amongst this year's class) his college stats would have been much improved. No one did him any favours. If people insist on comparing him to those QBs my response is to say that he's then not really a 56% completion percentage guy (even if that's his actual number). Decision making and pocket presence are open questions but the porousness of his O-line was not. He was often having to execute a jail break and one would reasonably expect that had a lot to do with his skittishness.

Good read but I don't think Lamar should be limited to a tailored RPO scheme based on college principles. I'm with those who believe NFL defensive coordinators can make adjustments for that. QB run totals might be up but it's still a passing league. Rushing, and the threat to run, will always be a part of Lamar's game (tho he won't run in the pros like he did in college and survive) but that's not the part that needs work. He needs to develop as a pocket passer. The good news is that he has given evaluators good reason for thinking he can do that, for being a guy who looks to pass, not run, first.

The point is he also looked like a man amongst boys when he came out (the second time) in the senior bowl game where he was surrounded by better talent on both sides of the ball (and not just one one side, like the other side to be more specific, the couple of times he squared off against power 5 competition in 2017). Its pretty obvious that he's a risky pick, too risky for me as a Bills fan, but if he's drafted by the right team he's a good pick and every bit a first round talent. I hope he gets the help he needs to develop and I wish him the best. Odds are against him perhaps but if he pans out he will be fun to watch (but not play against).

Miller's really good but it's worth mentioning that he was much better with Ferguson than with PL (who went in the first).

I'm with those who say (guess) that Darnold will be the first player off the board.

If he can or can learn to execute from the pocket he could be the next Drew Brees. I don't know if he can do that TBH. To a team that doubts that he can he should be graded mid-first not top 10 IMO. If you think he can develop as a pocket passer then he's in the discussion for top 5 value wise for sure. Thing is experience indicates that there is only one Drew Brees. He is a tough kid but not the athlete Wilson is either.

Inconsistent mechanics and therefore inconsistent accuracy, occasional head scratching decisions, but when he flashes he flashes really good - sort of a poor man's Josh Allen you might say. He's good enuf to get drafted and eventually get his chance IMO. I certainly would not be stunned if he turned into something.

He's pretty interesting. Not a second rounder IMO but not a fifth/UDFA either. He is a third or early fourth round guy IMO. Gunslinger with a big arm, good mobility and good field vision. There are some things to like there.

Josh Allen is an unusual and fascinating case. I don't put too much emphasis on the conference he comes from, level of competition etc... When he is on he looks like a man amongst boys - regardless of the surrounding talent, be it good or bad. It's absolutely imperative that he go to the right team where he won't be press ganged into early service, where he can sit and learn behind a legit veteran starter and can benefit from the teachings of a good QB coach. Comparing him to a guy like EJ is a superficial, rudimentary and inaccurate analysis. He is 10x the prospect EJ was and a legitimate 1st round guy. A risky pick to be sure and if he winds up having to start behind a team like last year's Browns he will likely bust. This year's QB class is exceptional IMO. Now is the time to get one.

For Lamar to max out in terms of his very high ceiling, he needs to develop as a pocket passer and not be limited to a customized RPO. I don't know if he can get there but there is ample evidence to suggest that he is capable of improving on both the physical (purely mechanical in his case) as well as the mental requirements. So while nothing is guaranteed to me he is a really great prospect. Imagine if Tyrod was really good at throwing the football. Think QB would still be at top of our shopping list? Say "no". I see where some posters question the ability of young QBs to get better by improving their mechanics. That of course is total nonsense - "muscle memory" etc...lol. If that were the case you would have to discard some of this year's best prospects (excluding only Rosen and maybe Mayfield). You would also have to dump the great Aaron Rodgers because when his mechanics deteriorate his performance goes south - like that stretch of four or five games a couple years back that just about gutted the Packers season until he went back to work with his QB coach. I'm pretty sure Lamar is not the guy Beane has at the top of his board. My guess is he likes Darnold and Rosen a lot more (with some justification IMO). But if he can't get what he wants, Lamar Jackson could be what he needs.

I don't feel like I've seen enuf of him to come to any firm conclusions but I think the lack of sufficient velocity on some of Peterman's throws, including the playoff game ending pick, is the product of poor footwork through his drop, frontal alignment/stance in relation to the target, planting and pushing more off his front foot instead of properly transferring his weight, in other words sloppy mechanics. Add to that poor timing due to a lack of work with his receivers and the big step up in gamespeed and you wind up with a recipe for disaster, especially when the play call is a throw that is risky to begin with. I've seen tape of Josh Allen, maybe the strongest arm in the game at any level, get picked on out patterns for exactly the same reasons (when his mechanics are poor). With better lower body mechanics I'm pretty sure that the velocity of Peterman's throws would improve, and throwing mechanics is certainly something you can work on. Would it improve enuf for him to make the deep out? Like I said, I haven't seen enuf so idk. Not yet. Peterman is not Josh Rosen. He is actually very sloppy and unrefined as a passer. The deal is, can he improve? I guess we will find out.

Without top shelf NFL arm strength (which Nathan does not possess) such terrible lower body mechanics/full frontal alignment with the target will not get it done in terms of getting the ball there on time. That, and likely a (related) problem with the timing on his drop relative to the route Tompson is running (the receiver should not just be standing there waiting for bad things to happen), is the bigger villain than lack of arm strength as such on this particular play. He probably got away with that in college. Not happening in the pros, especially versus a very high end DB. Adapting to NFL game speed sometimes comes at a cost. Hopefully it's an investment rather than a sunk cost. If you can't get your footwork and timing down you don't even dream of trying that throw.

Next Marvin Harrison. Maybe. Landing the next Peyton (Rosen) would help.

Actually I think Rosen works the pocket pretty well, though maybe that's debatable. I wasn't talking about that. My point was that he is capable of operating outside the pocket (tho not like Lamar of course). He's not a big dumb statue like Flacco.

Well that's interesting because I thought Jewishness was only transmitted on the distaff side. So maybe he's really an agnostic gentile? I'm not an expert tho, but if that makes McCoach warm up to him a little more I'm all for it.

What I was trying to say was that as in government religious affiliation should be irrelevant as far as football is concerned (at least that's my opinion, as well as my understanding of the Constitution). So I think we are on the same page there. Sorry if that was not clear. I gather that Rosen is (at least at this stage in his life) agnostic and not an atheist. Be that as it may, a Jewish atheist would be a Jew who does not believe in God but who nevertheless otherwise identifies with and is in part a product of Jewish culture. Obviously I don't know the guy but my understanding is that Rosen was raised as a Jew and continues to identify with the community he grew up in, even though he is not religious.

Not sure I agree with this lack of mobility stuff I see all the time. He's pretty much a a traditional pocket passer of course but within that class of QB he is mobile enuf to execute outside the pocket occasionally and/or when required. In the land of world class athletes he maybe doesn't stand out, but the guy is a good athlete. If he couldn't move/react with decent short area quickness and composure he would not have been a promising tennis player.

Ok. Well actually that makes more sense to me personally. I mean who really knows for sure what all is out there?

If that is true then I would give higher marks to Mr. Beane than to McCoach. If faith is a "key attribute" because of a personal belief system then I think you are unnecessarily limiting an already small talent pool from which to choose a player. I think religious conviction has as important a place on the gridiron as it has (or should have) in government. If OTOH faith is a "key attribute" because it can be a source of motivation that can translate to the field well then fine. But again this can't be the whole story. A player (or person) can find all the motivation needed if he believes in himself even if he doesn't believe in God. Specifically regarding Rosen I suspect that his relationship and feelings relative to his community and religion are complicated and evolving (he's a young kid). I know many Jews of all stripes, orthodox and secular, including some extremely WASP Jews (if you perceive me). For every one of them being Jewish is more important than some of them can admit even to themselves. They can react to it indifferent ways, including denying it, but it is always there and perhaps more so than for most other people. It is probably a by product of culture and history. Anyway speaking for myself I'd love to have that Jewish atheist suit up as a Bill.

If memory serves they did more to limit his mobility and confine him to the pocket. In projecting him to the next level that's the red flag. I don't know that he survives if asked to execute from an NFL pocket, take snaps under centre etc...

I think the Bills have Sam and Rosen at the top of the board. They likely have a preference but would be overjoyed to land either one. To make their dream come true they need to secure the 2 spot. I think Beane will go all out to get there. Don't know if he makes it.

I would be (more than) fine with Allen but he would certainly not be my first choice from amongst the top five guys. In fact he would be near if not right at the end of the line. But really that is because I'm risk averse and my risk aversion probably stems from the fact that I've got a day job and I don't see/know enuf about these prospects to be confident that I can even trust my own opinion. Even if I did I'd be handicapped by a lack of tools/knowledge to properly evaluate. But I can certainly see why people like him (based on the eye test). As others have mentioned when he is on he is simply playing in a different dimension than the surrounding talent (even when the surrounding talent is good as at the Senior Bowl). Stands out like a sore thumb. He is also clearly capable of doing the things you want him to do. So you say he can't throw with accuracy? I've seen him make plenty of throws with pinpoint accuracy and excellent ball placement. Can't throw with touch when on the run? Sorry, I've seen him do that too. His footwork/throwing mechanics are bad? Nope, give him a clean pocket and a little time to set up and you would have to nitpick to take issue with them (as in "I'd like to see him roll his hips a little more as he follows thru on his delivery" lol). So he just needs to be more consistent - unlike a guy like EJ who could never really do the things he "couldn't do" and provided no evidence that he could. There are some important unanswered questions to be sure -pocket presence and reactions to,pressure, decision making etc...but if you are an astute pro talent evaluator and you see enuf to believe that he can get there then you've got to be all over this kid because if you are right is going to be a prodigy. Wherever he winds up I'm really intrigued to see how he turns out.

Yeah I get that and I completely agree re keeping that stuff in house. And I'm not second guessing management's decisions either. But for the good of all concerned (mostly the team) I'm hoping cool heads will prevail and therefore that the front office too is capable of showing some maturity. I don't see Boldin as a reasonable comparable. He had no history with the team. Ritchie has been a good teammate and lockerroom leader and a leader by example on the field as well. The team gave him a chance and he turned things around. I'd like to continue that narrative if at all possible. I love me some red-a$$ guard.

Ritchie went on a childish rant. It would have been better had he behaved as a mature grown up person and a professional. Having said that, there are a few things to take into consideration. Some speculate that one of those things is cocaine. My take is that arrogant pride and an over abundance of testosterone is the more likely suspect, part of the psychological make-up that makes him an outstanding guard. Often the personality is at least partly a reflection of the position played. And then there is the time-line. Ritchie agreed to a pay cut to help the team manage the cap. Then he sees the Bills back up the truck for Star, a guy who hasn't been very good for some years and has been to exactly zero pro bowls (Ritchie has been to 4). Maybe thats why he fired his agent. I hope this gets smoothed over. I love good guard play.