Bills ownership question.

[Major Mud]

"The Molson family has agreed in principle to purchase the Montreal Canadiens and Bell Centre from George Gillett.French sports network RDS reported Saturday that the sale was worth $550 million, but a source told ESPN.com that the price was in excess of that." If i remember correctly, if someone could help me out please. But wasent George Gillett the rumored money man in Jim Kellys bid to purchase the Bills?....any substance to this "rumor"? Or maybe we have to grasp at anything to keep our beloved football team in WNY where it belongs?

[DazedandConfused]

"The Molson family has agreed in principle to purchase the Montreal Canadiens and Bell Centre from George Gillett.French sports network RDS reported Saturday that the sale was worth $550 million, but a source told ESPN.com that the price was in excess of that." If i remember correctly, if someone could help me out please. But wasent George Gillett the rumored money man in Jim Kellys bid to purchase the Bills?....any substance to this "rumor"? Or maybe we have to grasp at anything to keep our beloved football team in WNY where it belongs?

"Rumoured" Kelly bid is the right phrase to use because since Ralph has said the team will not be sold until he is dead and unless someone has our maker's private phone line or unless they have a contract out on Ralph's life, no one really knows with any certainty whatsoever whether even a bid could be a serious thing as the team is not even for sale yet.

 

It is simply the wrong idea to be looking for some "individual" to be the savior who is going to come in and rescue the Bills (or take them away) as we are talking about the need to lay out so much.

 

The buyer is going to have to manufacture almost a billion $ to purchase the team at today's market value (the Bills current value is estimated to be less than a billion but when one factors in the additional costs likely through the passage of time, paying for a new stadium if that is part of the deal, transfer costs to pay the league for buying the team have not been set yet0, etc. we are likely talking about have a sold bid to buy the team.

 

Few beyond huge corporations will have the scratch needed to buy a team and without a deal being a reality no one offering up any significant $ to be part of a deal cannot be taken very seriously. As the sole owner of the team, Ralph's will would have such an impact on the nature of the team and its profitability that no one can even say what the collected resource will be when the team goes up for sale any rumors are not even worth the paper they are not printed on.

[Steely Dan]

I have not seen anyone rumored to be the money man for Kelly's bid to keep the team in Western New York.

 

Here's what Kelly said, approx. two years ago about putting together the buyers group and the Toronto games.

 

I apologize but I can't get the link to work so here's what it says;

 

 

Jim Kelly Discusses Plans To Buy Buffalo Bills

 

 

Bills News and Notes WKBW:

Jim Kelly talked openly tonight about his goal of buying the Buffalo Bills football franchise from current owner Ralph Wilson. He tried to calm fears expressed by some Western New Yorkers, that the Bills will be sold and move out of Buffalo once Wilson passes away. Kelly says Wilson is committed to keeping the Bills in Buffalo, and he is working on a plan to make that happen.

 

Jim Kelly is banking on big bucks to buy the Buffalo Bills and he's quarterbacking a team of investors to make it happen. Kelly said, "Trust me, there's a lot of people that have that kind of money. I don't. But I know the people who do. The thing is, I can't name names right now. I won't do it." The franchise is estimated at over $800 million.

 

Another former Bills quarterback, and former county executive, Ed Rutkowski said, "I think the Buffalo Bills will be here forever. I think the plans to play a game in Canada next season, makes sense, to bring to brand name into Toronto."

 

Kelly agreed with that statement, saying extending the Bills fan base is only a good thing for the team and Western New York. "When you see that we are having games in Canada, that's a great thing, bringing people from Canada down to Buffalo. But I don't think there's anything more to it than that."

 

My money is on one of three players. Danny Wegman, Tom Golisano, Robert Rich.

 

Jim Kelly is an incredible guy. For someone who cried when he was drafted by Buffalo and went to the USFL to avoid having to play for them is now desperately doing anything he possibly can to keep the franchise here. If you would have told him that when he was drafted I wonder what he would've said?

 

In his book he mentions how he landed in Buffalo and was being taken to the stadium and he expected the city to hate him for what he had done in trying to avoid them. When he saw the people lined up along the way with cheering and signs welcoming him it was the beginning of his embracing the city so much. The people of Buffalo love their team and embrace the players. It's like no other NFL city. Green Bay may be the only other small market team with such fan enthusiasm.

 

The bottom part of this article is obviously written by a (In my best Oscar LeRoy) jackass but this part I think shows that TO should be warming up to the city so far.

 

Judging by the reception Owens got at the local airport last night, you'd think he was the biggest thing to hit The Nickel City since hot wings. There were cheerleaders, autograph seekers, even a guy dressed as a box of popcorn—all there in the middle of the night to see the greatest show on Earth wait in baggage claim. Is Upstate New York that desperate for entertainment?

[PearlHowardman]

The Toronto Bills.

 

Period.

[PromoTheRobot]

The Rich's aren't rich enough. Same with the Wegman's Tommy Boy is but I would hate to have him own the Bills unless he was totally disconnected and let a quilified GM run everything. (NOT Larry Frigggin' Quinn!!!)

 

PTR

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

The Toronto Bills.

 

Period.

 

Fu ck you.

[Steely Dan]

The Toronto Bills.

 

Period.

 

PUNCH!!!

 

 

The Rich's aren't rich enough. Same with the Wegman's Tommy Boy is but I would hate to have him own the Bills unless he was totally disconnected and let a quilified GM run everything. (NOT Larry Frigggin' Quinn!!!)

 

PTR

 

Robert Rich is worth $1.8 billion.

 

Danny Wegman is not a billionaire yet but both guys can probably put together buyers groups.

 

 

NFL ownership rules require that a single individual must have total voting and management control of the club. And that person must own at least 30 percent of the team.

 

The Bills are worth approx. $821 million.

 

So the principal owner would have to come up with $246,300,000. I think either one could come up with that number, I may be wrong about Wegman. Buyers groups are pretty common for an owner buying a team from the beginning. The owners can then slowly buy out the other owners.

 

Robert Rich is still a definite possibility. IIRC, he's expressed interest in the team before.

[apuszczalowski]

If I had to guess who Kelly's "Money Guy" is, I would say chances are it was that "rich" investor that bought the Statler Building and wanted to build the sky scrapper. The following are the clues that led me to believe it may be a possibility.

 

1. Nothing much has been said by Kelly about his "group" since that guy was found out to be a con and a fraud

2. Jim hasn't had much success in the past with investments and this seems like the kind of guy that could sucker him

3. This is the Bills and we are all Bills fans,this is the type of luck we have

[buffalobillsfootball]

If I had to guess who Kelly's "Money Guy" is, I would say chances are it was that "rich" investor that bought the Statler Building and wanted to build the sky scrapper. The following are the clues that led me to believe it may be a possibility.

 

1. Nothing much has been said by Kelly about his "group" since that guy was found out to be a con and a fraud

2. Jim hasn't had much success in the past with investments and this seems like the kind of guy that could sucker him

3. This is the Bills and we are all Bills fans,this is the type of luck we have

 

There is no connection between Jim Kelly and British investor Bashar Issa.

[Glass To The Arson]

There is no connection between Jim Kelly and British investor Bashar Issa.

 

I hope not

 

That Bashar guy isn't too stable

[Andrew Mills]

The Toronto Bills.

 

Period.

 

ghey.

[Lv-Bills]

"Rumoured" Kelly bid is the right phrase to use because since Ralph has said the team will not be sold until he is dead and unless someone has our maker's private phone line or unless they have a contract out on Ralph's life, no one really knows with any certainty whatsoever whether even a bid could be a serious thing as the team is not even for sale yet.

 

It is simply the wrong idea to be looking for some "individual" to be the savior who is going to come in and rescue the Bills (or take them away) as we are talking about the need to lay out so much.

 

The buyer is going to have to manufacture almost a billion $ to purchase the team at today's market value (the Bills current value is estimated to be less than a billion but when one factors in the additional costs likely through the passage of time, paying for a new stadium if that is part of the deal, transfer costs to pay the league for buying the team have not been set yet0, etc. we are likely talking about have a sold bid to buy the team.

 

Few beyond huge corporations will have the scratch needed to buy a team and without a deal being a reality no one offering up any significant $ to be part of a deal cannot be taken very seriously. As the sole owner of the team, Ralph's will would have such an impact on the nature of the team and its profitability that no one can even say what the collected resource will be when the team goes up for sale any rumors are not even worth the paper they are not printed on.

This kind of stuff cracks me up. Believe me, if someone is willing to pony up 550 million for a NHL team, there will buyers for the Bills EASILY. Especially if they can move the team. Hell, if Jim Balsillie is willing to pay 230 for the Phoenix Coyotes, there will be buyers for the Bills.

 

If the Bills are movable, they will get over a Billion easily. This recession isn't hurting everyone.

[PromoTheRobot]

PUNCH!!!

 

 

 

 

Robert Rich is worth $1.8 billion.

 

Danny Wegman is not a billionaire yet but both guys can probably put together buyers groups.

 

 

NFL ownership rules require that a single individual must have total voting and management control of the club. And that person must own at least 30 percent of the team.

 

The Bills are worth approx. $821 million.

 

So the principal owner would have to come up with $246,300,000. I think either one could come up with that number, I may be wrong about Wegman. Buyers groups are pretty common for an owner buying a team from the beginning. The owners can then slowly buy out the other owners.

 

Robert Rich is still a definite possibility. IIRC, he's expressed interest in the team before.

 

If you had $1B would you put all of it into the Bills? Not a good idea to put all your golden eggs in one stadium. Now if I had a billion I'd buy the Sabres and tell Larry Quinn to beat it.

 

PTR

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Fu ck you.

I second, third and fourth that!

[SuperKillerRobots]

"Rumoured" Kelly bid is the right phrase to use because since Ralph has said the team will not be sold until he is dead and unless someone has our maker's private phone line or unless they have a contract out on Ralph's life, no one really knows with any certainty whatsoever whether even a bid could be a serious thing as the team is not even for sale yet.

 

It is simply the wrong idea to be looking for some "individual" to be the savior who is going to come in and rescue the Bills (or take them away) as we are talking about the need to lay out so much.

 

The buyer is going to have to manufacture almost a billion $ to purchase the team at today's market value (the Bills current value is estimated to be less than a billion but when one factors in the additional costs likely through the passage of time, paying for a new stadium if that is part of the deal, transfer costs to pay the league for buying the team have not been set yet0, etc. we are likely talking about have a sold bid to buy the team.

 

Few beyond huge corporations will have the scratch needed to buy a team and without a deal being a reality no one offering up any significant $ to be part of a deal cannot be taken very seriously. As the sole owner of the team, Ralph's will would have such an impact on the nature of the team and its profitability that no one can even say what the collected resource will be when the team goes up for sale any rumors are not even worth the paper they are not printed on.

 

Only individuals can purchase NFL teams - not corporations. I think the last I heard was that NFL owners groups tend to have one lead individual/investor with about $400mm in cash and then the ability to finance about $600mm. This would be approximate to the type of group it would take to bid on an average team. You could probably get the NFL to swing a "two lead individual" setup, which could include two people (Galisano as one?) with about $400mm and then you could get 15 Larry Quinns who would put up collateral and sign for the loan based on the deposit ($400mm) of the other two. It's doable, but you need the other money man (assuming Galisano is one of them).

[SuperKillerRobots]

There is no connection between Jim Kelly and British investor Bashar Issa.

 

He never has had enough money - lots of assets, but no cash.

[The_Philster]

I second, third and fourth that!

I fifth it. Anyone in favor of the Bills moving is lower than sh--

[billsfan89]

Whats going to be key in the Bills staying in Buffalo is the revenue sharing rules in the next CBA. One of the bigger issues in the next CBA is going to be revenue sharing. Bigger market teams want a bigger slice of the pie arguing that they are contributing more thus they should get more.

 

The Bills in Buffalo become more of a viable team if they are able to continue to get their share of Television and Radio contracts. If they change the rules than suddenly the Toronto Bills might be a reality.

 

Fortunately I think that there are enough billionaires and millionaires that have ties to the area that can make a group to buy the Bills once Ralph passes. I honestly think that Ralph should start thinking about preparing the sale of the Bills. If Ralph can get a group of local buyers to buy the team than why not at least have a deal in place for that unfortunate day.

[Sanners]

I can't believe no one mentioned the Jacobs family or even the Lipkes. Jacobs is quite rich, and I am sure he would be happy to sell the Bruins, so that he can buy his hometown football team. There is more than enough money in Buffalo.

[Blue Chipper]

I have mentioned the Jacobs in previous posts on this topic. Owner of Delaware North Company- Jeremy Sr still has a home in East Aurora. His son Jeremy Jr is very good friends with Jimbo and I always thought it was the Jacobs family who Kelly had lined up in his corner if and when the Bills would be for sale. With that being said even and Kelly with the financial support of the Jacobs family could not afford to get into a bidding war for the Bills. I personally believe a deal would need to be put into place prior to Ralph passing for this to happen.

 

It just reminds me and bothers me every time this topic comes up that Ralph wont get his affairs in order and set something up with a prospective local buyer- or maybe he has with Toronto, who knows.

[Tcali]

Simon Cowell and the shamwow guy...thats what i heard

[Major Mud]

Simon Cowell and the shamwow guy...thats what i heard

Damn i was hoping that Billy Mays, and Sully would come through for us.

[beerfriday]

Gillet has no money...he's leveraged worse than the Glazers

[apuszczalowski]

There is no connection between Jim Kelly and British investor Bashar Issa.

Are you sure? Are you Mr. Kelly's financial advisor?

[apuszczalowski]

It just reminds me and bothers me every time this topic comes up that Ralph wont get his affairs in order and set something up with a prospective local buyer- or maybe he has with Toronto, who knows.

Who says he hasn't tried and found no one credible yet?

 

The only person who has actually stepped up has been Kelly, and since he hasn't named his "investors" its not really crdible yet

[Kelly the Dog]

A team in LA? Eric Dickerson doesn't think they deserve one.

“L.A. is like a bad kid. His ball is laying over there, he don’t wanna play with the ball. But when . . . somebody else picks the ball up, then he wants the ball.”

 

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&am...0e-2c939a566422

[SF Bills Fan]

I can't believe no one mentioned the Jacobs family or even the Lipkes. Jacobs is quite rich, and I am sure he would be happy to sell the Bruins, so that he can buy his hometown football team. There is more than enough money in Buffalo.

 

I believe the Jacobs will emerge as the owners. They have the money and they want to own an NFL team and they want the one in their hometown. Plus it fits naturally with their business. The Ralph will become Delaware North Stadium.

[The_Philster]

A team in LA? Eric Dickerson doesn't think they deserve one.

 

 

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&am...0e-2c939a566422

I agree...OchoCinco was Twittering at the Apple Store in LA a few weeks ago and no one knew who he was!

[DonInBuffalo]

Whats going to be key in the Bills staying in Buffalo is the revenue sharing rules in the next CBA. One of the bigger issues in the next CBA is going to be revenue sharing. Bigger market teams want a bigger slice of the pie arguing that they are contributing more thus they should get more.

 

The Bills in Buffalo become more of a viable team if they are able to continue to get their share of Television and Radio contracts. If they change the rules than suddenly the Toronto Bills might be a reality.

 

Fortunately I think that there are enough billionaires and millionaires that have ties to the area that can make a group to buy the Bills once Ralph passes. I honestly think that Ralph should start thinking about preparing the sale of the Bills. If Ralph can get a group of local buyers to buy the team than why not at least have a deal in place for that unfortunate day.

 

 

I have mentioned the Jacobs in previous posts on this topic. Owner of Delaware North Company- Jeremy Sr still has a home in East Aurora. His son Jeremy Jr is very good friends with Jimbo and I always thought it was the Jacobs family who Kelly had lined up in his corner if and when the Bills would be for sale. With that being said even and Kelly with the financial support of the Jacobs family could not afford to get into a bidding war for the Bills. I personally believe a deal would need to be put into place prior to Ralph passing for this to happen.

 

It just reminds me and bothers me every time this topic comes up that Ralph wont get his affairs in order and set something up with a prospective local buyer- or maybe he has with Toronto, who knows.

This is what I can't figure out either. It really isn't that complicated. If Ralph really wanted to insure that the Bills stay in Buffalo after he dies, he should sell the team before he dies. That way, he has at least some control over who purchases the team. If for some reason (presumably financial) he wants to wait until after he dies for the team to actually be sold, it's possible something like that could be worked out. But the important thing is that everything would need to be in writing ahead of time. It's formal contract or nothing. "Working agreement" or "Agreement in principle" wouldn't be good enough, because once he's dead, there's very little incentive for those sorts of deals to be honored.

[The_Philster]

It just reminds me and bothers me every time this topic comes up that Ralph wont get his affairs in order and set something up with a prospective local buyer- or maybe he has with Toronto, who knows.

I'm pretty sure Ralph doesn't have to tell you, me, or anyone else about everything he does. No one knows other than Ralph and anyone who might be involved in a deal to buy the Bills whether Ralph's affairs are in order or not. Quite frankly, the rumor that came out a year and a half ago that Mary Wilson would get the team and then sell it to Kelly's group of investors makes sense and could be a fact for all we know. Saying that Ralph won't get his affairs in order in regards to the team is pretty ignorant to say the least.

 

 

This is what I can't figure out either. It really isn't that complicated. If Ralph really wanted to insure that the Bills stay in Buffalo after he dies, he should sell the team before he dies. That way, he has at least some control over who purchases the team. If for some reason (presumably financial) he wants to wait until after he dies for the team to actually be sold, it's possible something like that could be worked out. But the important thing is that everything would need to be in writing ahead of time. It's formal contract or nothing. "Working agreement" or "Agreement in principle" wouldn't be good enough, because once he's dead, there's very little incentive for those sorts of deals to be honored.

If he sells the team before his death, then he gets taxed on the sale of the team...and then his inheritors also pay taxes on the estate...double taxation

If the team is sold by his estate after his death, the sale is taxed once

 

What kind of fool would actually pay taxes twice on the same money when there's a way not to?

[rpcolosi]

I believe the Jacobs will emerge as the owners. They have the money and they want to own an NFL team and they want the one in their hometown. Plus it fits naturally with their business. The Ralph will become Delaware North Stadium.

 

 

very logical. I see them and the Riches doing it together, unless Jacobs is able to sell the bruins, otherwise he can only be a minority shareholder in the team as per NFL rules. there is no reason to think they cant together put a 900mil bid in. Especially considering one of the Rich brothers is a pastor who inherited $1.5 billion. this is rarely mentioned, and I could not find much on Rev. David Rich online, other than he appears to be a minister considering he has a family and went to Virginia theological seminary. I know he was active in the Buffalo community for some time, but his name is rarely mentioned. I wonder if his inheritance is directly tied to the company then and not accessible. But keep your eye on that. He could very well be Kelly's "private" investor, since Jimbo's wife is a very strong Christian an active in the Buffalo community in terms of outreach and things.... all speculation... i know

[gmac17]

there is an ownership group being put together in Nigeria as we speak. I got an email about it yesterday.

[Tcali]

Damn i was hoping that Billy Mays, and Sully would come through for us.

free admission for anyone dyeing their beard with black shoe polish

[Tcali]

I'm pretty sure Ralph doesn't have to tell you, me, or anyone else about everything he does. No one knows other than Ralph and anyone who might be involved in a deal to buy the Bills whether Ralph's affairs are in order or not. Quite frankly, the rumor that came out a year and a half ago that Mary Wilson would get the team and then sell it to Kelly's group of investors makes sense and could be a fact for all we know. Saying that Ralph won't get his affairs in order in regards to the team is pretty ignorant to say the least.

 

 

 

If he sells the team before his death, then he gets taxed on the sale of the team...and then his inheritors also pay taxes on the estate...double taxation

If the team is sold by his estate after his death, the sale is taxed once

 

What kind of fool would actually pay taxes twice on the same money when there's a way not to?

guys with that kinda dough are not financial fools

[everyday17]

there is an ownership group being put together in Nigeria as we speak. I got an email about it yesterday.

 

All we have to do is send them JP in a box and they wire you $800 mil. Easy as pie.

[quikchomp]

there is an ownership group being put together in Nigeria as we speak. I got an email about it yesterday.

LMAO.

 

Aside from that, folks: The Gillettes (or however its spelled) sold the Canadiens because they needed quick cash to make a huge payment on debt they have related to their purchase of Liverpool Football Club in the EPL. They financed almost their entire purchase of LFC and were in danger of defaulting on their loans and becoming a going concern. Selling the Habs is a good, fast cash infusion.

[twolf]

Fu ck you.

THANK YOU

[DazedandConfused]

If he sells the team before his death, then he gets taxed on the sale of the team...and then his inheritors also pay taxes on the estate...double taxation

If the team is sold by his estate after his death, the sale is taxed once

 

What kind of fool would actually pay taxes twice on the same money when there's a way not to?

 

One would actually have to be some kind of fool (or like Joe Robbie be foolish enough to think you will live forever when the truth is that nobody gets out of here alive) to actually undergo single taxation, much less double taxation when you die.

 

Witness our good friends Warren Buffet and Bill Gates who are rich enough to hire smart lawyers to help them play our tax laws like a song and simply use billions of dollars in their wealth in a tax free manner which allows them to do what they want to do and get worshipped by folks near and far.

 

Ralph seems to be in particularly good shape fiscally since even though he too will not get out of here alive his major direct heir conveniently died before he did.

 

It would actually be a relatively straight-forward matter for him to set up an irrevocable trust for a non-profit of his own making and totally escape any estate taxes on the Bills, This not for profit can easily be made to be legally "independent" but actually give a job for life at some extraordinary level of pay to whomever he wants his lawyers to designate as executors of his estate, trustees for life on the not-for-profit board or some other legal mechanism the smart lawyers figure out.

 

Sure the NFL if it chose could try to assert that it has rules now against a Green Bay Packer type ownership situation, but just as the NFL was rolled by the relative idiots of the Cleveland municipality so too would they almost certainly get rolled if they tried to take on Ralph's legal strategy if he decided to avoid estate taxes with this or some even more arcane tax dodge.

 

It is amusing that some folks seem to put so much stock in both government being incompetent but also government being all powerful.

 

My sense is that as always its the golden rule. He who has the gold rules and like other rich folk I have few doubts that the Ralph legal team can avoid estate taxes if they have half a brain.

[stuckincincy]

One would actually have to be some kind of fool (or like Joe Robbie be foolish enough to think you will live forever when the truth is that nobody gets out of here alive) to actually undergo single taxation, much less double taxation when you die.

 

Witness our good friends Warren Buffet and Bill Gates who are rich enough to hire smart lawyers to help them play our tax laws like a song and simply use billions of dollars in their wealth in a tax free manner which allows them to do what they want to do and get worshipped by folks near and far.

 

Ralph seems to be in particularly good shape fiscally since even though he too will not get out of here alive his major direct heir conveniently died before he did.

 

It would actually be a relatively straight-forward matter for him to set up an irrevocable trust for a non-profit of his own making and totally escape any estate taxes on the Bills, This not for profit can easily be made to be legally "independent" but actually give a job for life at some extraordinary level of pay to whomever he wants his lawyers to designate as executors of his estate, trustees for life on the not-for-profit board or some other legal mechanism the smart lawyers figure out.

 

Sure the NFL if it chose could try to assert that it has rules now against a Green Bay Packer type ownership situation, but just as the NFL was rolled by the relative idiots of the Cleveland municipality so too would they almost certainly get rolled if they tried to take on Ralph's legal strategy if he decided to avoid estate taxes with this or some even more arcane tax dodge.

 

It is amusing that some folks seem to put so much stock in both government being incompetent but also government being all powerful.

 

My sense is that as always its the golden rule. He who has the gold rules and like other rich folk I have few doubts that the Ralph legal team can avoid estate taxes if they have half a brain.

 

Here's a host of examples of how it's been done...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2407875