Walker at LT and other ramblings

[ColdBlueNorth]

Walker played a bit of LT last year and he was not a complete disaster there, but I do remember that he could get beat to the outside on a speed rush if Edwards takes more than a 3 step drop or simply got too deep. He just didn't have the arms or the range of Peters. Then again, when Peters came in he was getting beat to the outside too - he just looked slower getting out of his stance and staying with his block than in previous years.

 

That tendancy to get beat with the outside speed rush was even worse when Losman was under center. Losman had a much deeper drop than Edwards (longer legs, bigger stride, I don't know he just always ended up deeper in the backfield) and would hold onto the ball longer. The line never compensated for that difference and we all know the result - blind side hit and fumble... rather than the defender being steered safely around the back of the QB.

 

With the infusion of attitude on the O-Line we may finally be able to run the ball successfully. The question remains though, if we are running the ball down the other teams throat does the brain trust suddenly get cute and start throwing the ball?? Of course I would change my mind if they hit Evans or Owens deep because the other team was crowding the line

 

If they can work that new tightend and Fine into the short yardage game, and run the ball then that should setup Evans and Owens with single coverage for the occasional shot down the field. Both of those guys can take it to the house. Hit a couple of those then other teams will have to call off the dogs and play honest more often than not.

 

Still interested to see if the FO has any free agent or soon-to-be free agent tackles on thier radar to man the LT position. I would think they would if for no other reason that to get some depth at that position. We have good depth across the interior, but that LT position is one spot where the team is one injury away from deep trouble (unless Bell is the answer).

 

I am anxious to see how Schobel looks, we really need him to come back strong from his injury and stay healthy. If Maybin can contribute on 3rd and long, where last year we were tortured by the amount of time opposing QBs had to get rid of the ball when put in obvious passing downs, then maybe this year we will have the semblance of a pass rush. Having the offense score some points so that we are playing with a lead would not hurt either. Fewell certainly has enough blitz packages in his arsenal, but he does not use them if they are playing from behind or trying to stay close and conservative.

 

I can't believe that I am excited about this year.

 

My feelings for Russ Brandon aside, I have to give him props as a GM for simply generating interest in a team where the fans were falling off the bandwagon pretty darn fast - myself included.

[The Big Cat]

Walker played a bit of LT last year and he was not a complete disaster there, but I do remember that he could get beat to the outside on a speed rush if Edwards takes more than a 3 step drop or simply got too deep. He just didn't have the arms or the range of Peters. Then again, when Peters came in he was getting beat to the outside too - he just looked slower getting out of his stance and staying with his block than in previous years.

 

That tendancy to get beat with the outside speed rush was even worse when Losman was under center. Losman had a much deeper drop than Edwards (longer legs, bigger stride, I don't know he just always ended up deeper in the backfield) and would hold onto the ball longer. The line never compensated for that difference and we all know the result - blind side hit and fumble... rather than the defender being steered safely around the back of the QB.

 

With the infusion of attitude on the O-Line we may finally be able to run the ball successfully. The question remains though, if we are running the ball down the other teams throat does the brain trust suddenly get cute and start throwing the ball?? Of course I would change my mind if they hit Evans or Owens deep because the other team was crowding the line

 

If they can work that new tightend and Fine into the short yardage game, and run the ball then that should setup Evans and Owens with single coverage for the occasional shot down the field. Both of those guys can take it to the house. Hit a couple of those then other teams will have to call off the dogs and play honest more often than not.

 

Still interested to see if the FO has any free agent or soon-to-be free agent tackles on thier radar to man the LT position. I would think they would if for no other reason that to get some depth at that position. We have good depth across the interior, but that LT position is one spot where the team is one injury away from deep trouble (unless Bell is the answer).

 

I am anxious to see how Schobel looks, we really need him to come back strong from his injury and stay healthy. If Maybin can contribute on 3rd and long, where last year we were tortured by the amount of time opposing QBs had to get rid of the ball when put in obvious passing downs, then maybe this year we will have the semblance of a pass rush. Having the offense score some points so that we are playing with a lead would not hurt either. Fewell certainly has enough blitz packages in his arsenal, but he does not use them if they are playing from behind or trying to stay close and conservative.

 

I can't believe that I am excited about this year.

 

My feelings for Russ Brandon aside, I have to give him props as a GM for simply generating interest in a team where the fans were falling off the bandwagon pretty darn fast - myself included.

 

Being stout up the middle allows us to go four wide and still be a rushing threat. Adding Owens to Evans and the rest of our receiving threats [Reed/Parish/Johnson/Hardy], and then piling on a pass-catching TE should leave the middle of the field incredibly vulnerable in certain situations. We might get to see what kind of track stars these whities are!

 

Why? Because we will have used the pass to setup the run. It sounds like you'd prefer the opposite?

[John from Riverside]

I think based on that lineup we should use the pass to set up the run.....

 

Plus another way to slow down that edge rush is get them worried about the intermediate pass where the DE starts getting more worried about getting their hands up.......

 

I would like to see us spread people out.....and then let our RB's run underneath the coverage and hopefully break a big one.....I want to see what Marshawn Lynch can do when he doesn't have someone meeting him in the backfield on every other play

[Peace Frog]

Our LT getting beat by a speed rusher outside because of the deep drop of the QB may have more to do with the interior of our line getting pushed back into the QB's face. Hopefully, our new additions will help alleviate the chronic problem.

[Justice]

I'm not too worried about LW playing LT against the AFC East. All of those team run a 3-4 defense and most of those DE's are larger and slower. It's the non 3-4 teams that worry me the most.

 

And then again, the 3-4 defense also utilizes quick OLBers to rush the passer, that's where we will have the most problems against the 3-4.

[Bill Murray]

Now with Owes being another legit option for Edwards, I think we can afford to leave Marshawn and Fred back to assist with the blocking as well. If Marshawn can consistently pick up the 3-4 rusher and help chip the 4-3 blindside end, Edwards should have more time to throw on the majority of plays. That will allow Evans to actually get down the field before the ball is out or Edwards is on his back, which should open up Owens and the slot/TEs in the 10-20 yard space that Evans stretches the DBs out in.

 

The lack of another offensive weapon in the passing game besides Lee last year caused MANY problems for not only our passing game, but also our running game, and our confidence that we can come from behind as well (Changing our defensive and overall gameplans). An issue in one area can affect all other aspects of the team...im REALLY glad we have Owens, I think that will make a HUGE difference.

[Trader]

Our LT getting beat by a speed rusher outside because of the deep drop of the QB may have more to do with the interior of our line getting pushed back into the QB's face. Hopefully, our new additions will help alleviate the chronic problem.

 

 

That's a fact!

[Trader]

Walker was charged with 3 sacks last year

 

Peters 11.5 but had only 13 starts the worst in the NFL

 

Dockery chimed in with 8.5 the left side of the line was a total disaster.

[Mickey]

Walker played a bit of LT last year and he was not a complete disaster there, but I do remember that he could get beat to the outside on a speed rush if Edwards takes more than a 3 step drop or simply got too deep. He just didn't have the arms or the range of Peters. Then again, when Peters came in he was getting beat to the outside too - he just looked slower getting out of his stance and staying with his block than in previous years.

 

That tendancy to get beat with the outside speed rush was even worse when Losman was under center. Losman had a much deeper drop than Edwards (longer legs, bigger stride, I don't know he just always ended up deeper in the backfield) and would hold onto the ball longer. The line never compensated for that difference and we all know the result - blind side hit and fumble... rather than the defender being steered safely around the back of the QB.

 

With the infusion of attitude on the O-Line we may finally be able to run the ball successfully. The question remains though, if we are running the ball down the other teams throat does the brain trust suddenly get cute and start throwing the ball?? Of course I would change my mind if they hit Evans or Owens deep because the other team was crowding the line

 

If they can work that new tightend and Fine into the short yardage game, and run the ball then that should setup Evans and Owens with single coverage for the occasional shot down the field. Both of those guys can take it to the house. Hit a couple of those then other teams will have to call off the dogs and play honest more often than not.

 

Still interested to see if the FO has any free agent or soon-to-be free agent tackles on thier radar to man the LT position. I would think they would if for no other reason that to get some depth at that position. We have good depth across the interior, but that LT position is one spot where the team is one injury away from deep trouble (unless Bell is the answer).

 

I am anxious to see how Schobel looks, we really need him to come back strong from his injury and stay healthy. If Maybin can contribute on 3rd and long, where last year we were tortured by the amount of time opposing QBs had to get rid of the ball when put in obvious passing downs, then maybe this year we will have the semblance of a pass rush. Having the offense score some points so that we are playing with a lead would not hurt either. Fewell certainly has enough blitz packages in his arsenal, but he does not use them if they are playing from behind or trying to stay close and conservative.

 

I can't believe that I am excited about this year.

 

My feelings for Russ Brandon aside, I have to give him props as a GM for simply generating interest in a team where the fans were falling off the bandwagon pretty darn fast - myself included.

i think our problems running the ball have been as much about our inability or unwillingness to go down field. Since the QB, Head Coach and OC are the same I don't see the results being any different. Frankly, I will never understand this town's obsession with "smash mouth" football. The greatest success this team ever had was with an offense that was anything but "smash mouth". The modern game requires that a team be able to get the ball deep. There is nothing our offense does worse than going deep.

 

As for the line, you have 2/5's of it returning with one of those moving to another position. The line sucked last year and a chunk of it is the same. The other 3 positions could be manned by rookies, free agents who were not starters for their old teams and practice squad players. Two of the guys we lost were stiffs but one was an all pro. So, no, I don't see a reason to be excited about this new line. Maybe over the second half of the year or next year when they have some experience.

 

Maybin will hopefully improve the pass rush but he is just one guy and rarely do rookie DE's make much of an impact.

 

We were 0-6 in the division and honestly, I can't see where we gained anything on the rest of the division this off season. They took some guys that will be good long term but for next year, 5-11 is as much a possibility with this team as 7-9. When you add in Lynch's suspension along with possible suspensions to Simpson and Whitner, you start wondering if 5-11 is a little too ambitious.

 

Razberries to Brandon who has failed to put a winning team on the field so far and whose most important personnel move the last two years was to trade away a two time pro bowler. Attaboy Russ.

[Coach Tuesday]

Good thread and the optimism is healthy, but nomatter how well you scheme you cannot hide a glaring weakness at LT. Eventually you will be in 3rd and long situations and will need time to scan downfield and throw. I am VERY concerned about those situations. Think about it this way, the Eagles probably had the best short passing game in the league the last few years and they felt that they needed to trade for and pay Peters.... There is just not much you can do without quality blindside protection.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

my 2c, I think throughout the camps and PS that we will see all sorts of line combinations.

[phillyrich]

I am glad some one finally added Langston's sack number from last year - 3.5. I dont understand why people have issue with him. Langston has been solid for us, and at $5M/year, a nice deal overall. My keys to a good offensive line are the following:

 

High percentage of short - 3 step that is, drop by the quarterback

Quick release by the quarterback

At least 4 solid pass options for the quarterback

Running backs that correctly read then hit the right hole

 

The NEw England Patriots have a solid O-Line, but it is not a unit that steam rolls people. They play as a unit for the system and style of offense Tom Brady runs - Quick release, at least four pass options, good decision maker, etc., with running backs that hit the right hole.

 

BTW - running backs hitting the hole is why I wish Fred Jackson would bve our starter over Marshawn.

[Thurman#1]

Walker was charged with 3 sacks last year

 

Peters 11.5 but had only 13 starts the worst in the NFL

 

Dockery chimed in with 8.5 the left side of the line was a total disaster.

 

 

 

It's not a legit stat.

[Rockinon]

That tendancy to get beat with the outside speed rush was even worse when Losman was under center. Losman had a much deeper drop than Edwards (longer legs, bigger stride, I don't know he just always ended up deeper in the backfield) and would hold onto the ball longer. The line never compensated for that difference and we all know the result - blind side hit and fumble... rather than the defender being steered safely around the back of the QB.

 

How many times did you notice that the interior of our offensive line collapsed when Edwards was trying to stay in the pocket last season? You made some very interesting points but I think that the added linemen during the off-season will allow Edwards to stand in the pocket and pass without having drop back further and get caught by an outside speed rusher.

[Steely Dan]

How many times did you notice that the interior of our offensive line collapsed when Edwards was trying to stay in the pocket last season? You made some very interesting points but I think that the added linemen during the off-season will allow Edwards to stand in the pocket and pass without having drop back further and get caught by an outside speed rusher.

 

 

Just to have a center that doesn't collapse on the field crying after a DT hits him should help.

[K-9]

...That tendancy to get beat with the outside speed rush was even worse when Losman was under center. Losman had a much deeper drop than Edwards (longer legs, bigger stride, I don't know he just always ended up deeper in the backfield) and would hold onto the ball longer. The line never compensated for that difference and we all know the result - blind side hit and fumble... rather than the defender being steered safely around the back of the QB.

 

Not to quibble but a 3, 5, or 7 step drop needs to be made the same way/distance by EVERY QB regardless of stride length. If a QB strides too long, they have to shorten it. Too short, they have to lengthen it. It's gotta be the same distance and timing so that the routes develop properly and the OL stays consistent in their assigments depending on the pass-pro scheme called for.

 

You are right about JP in that he was way too inconsistent with his timing, regardless of drop length. And I also agree that a slower OT is gonna have a problem from a speedier rusher off the edge, particualarly an LB or S that are coming from a wider split with more speed than most LTs can handle. Walker will be challenged, but he held up VERY WELL against what's his name from the Seahawks last year. His technique is good and if our middle can stay stout, our QB can read safeties better, and our RBs can recognize and give the help when needed, Walker at LT may be adequate.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Magox]

I'm not too worried about LW playing LT against the AFC East. All of those team run a 3-4 defense and most of those DE's are larger and slower. It's the non 3-4 teams that worry me the most.

 

And then again, the 3-4 defense also utilizes quick OLBers to rush the passer, that's where we will have the most problems against the 3-4.

Actually it's the LB from the 3-4 that killed are LT's last year.

[Leonidas]

I was all for letting Peters go and I think it was the right decision. That being said, Walker is no more than a stop-gap at LT. At least Butler played LT in college and has the prototypical height and weight to do it. Between Walker, Bell, and the potential signing of a Levi Jones or otherwise, I think it would be smart to keep Walker at RT if at all possible.

 

 

I'm not too worried about LW playing LT against the AFC East. All of those team run a 3-4 defense and most of those DE's are larger and slower. It's the non 3-4 teams that worry me the most.

 

And then again, the 3-4 defense also utilizes quick OLBers to rush the passer, that's where we will have the most problems against the 3-4.

 

And yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all. In the 3-4, our OT's take on speedy rush LB's all the time (Porter, A. Thomas, C. Pace).

[Magox]

I was all for letting Peters go and I think it was the right decision. That being said, Walker is no more than a stop-gap at LT. At least Butler played LT in college and has the prototypical height and weight to do it. Between Walker, Bell, and the potential signing of a Levi Jones or otherwise, I think it would be smart to keep Walker at RT if at all possible.

 

 

 

 

And yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all. In the 3-4, our OT's take on speedy rush LB's all the time (Porter, A. Thomas, C. Pace).

I'm all for keeping Langston Walker on the Right Side. I'd love to see Demetrius Bell impress the coaching staff and be our starting LT, but that may be overly optimistic, and if not I'd like to see if Butler could make the transition to the Left Side.

[Justice]

Langston's just gonna have to lose 30 to 35 lbs if he expects to play at LT. Hell, I lost 14 pounds in 15 days and I don't get paid five million a season.