Nothing will improve the Bills more than a DT at 12

[Last Guy on the Bench]

I know DT isn't our weakest position, but I keep thinking about what could really help the Bills make the leap this year. The number one answer is that JP improve as much this year as he did last year (i.e., basically move from middle of the pack to a top 10 QB).

 

But I think turning the middle of our D line into a freaking shark tank is the next most effective maneuver. I think Branch will be long gone at 12, but a lot of people see him slipping a bit. If he were there, I'd take him without pause. He may be a little lazy, but he can play any DT position in any defense. If you have a rotation of Branch, McCargo, Triplett, Williams, and Walker, with no one playing more than about half of the snaps, by the 4th quarter the interior of the oppponents OL will be DONE. Won't be able to run. Won't be able to maintain a pocket. And our dudes will be fresh. Everyone else on the defense will look better. With that kind of DL interior, guys like Ellison and Crowell can really use their athleticism without having to fight through too much traffic, and you could pick up Buster Davis or HB Blades in the third round - two guys who could also use their great instincts to dominate in the kind of space the DL would create. (They're probably not physically gifted enough to play well behind a mediocre DL.)

 

Okoye would also be good (and I know they might both be gone), but Branch is my current draft dreamboat. I think you improve your team more by having a dominant unit or two (particularly DL and OL) than you do by spreading your best players around at various positions.

 

And to save all you witty bastards some typing, yes I am smoking very good crack as I ride the short bus to the park where I have a season pass on the retard roller-coaster.

[apuszczalowski]

the only problem with this is that, as long as Hargrove is retained, and Anderson is not, that leaves the Bills with 4 DE, and 4 DT's (Hargrove can also play both) so adding another DT to the roster gives them a total of 9. Thats alot to carry and have dressed for games, so where do you take that extra guy from to make room on the roster?

[D_House]

And to save all you witty bastards some typing, yes I am smoking very good crack as I ride the short bus to the park where I have a season pass on the retard roller-coaster.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I know DT isn't our weakest position, but I keep thinking about what could really help the Bills make the leap this year. The number one answer is that JP improve as much this year as he did last year (i.e., basically move from middle of the pack to a top 10 QB).

 

But I think turning the middle of our D line into a freaking shark tank is the next most effective maneuver. I think Branch will be long gone at 12, but a lot of people see him slipping a bit. If he were there, I'd take him without pause. He may be a little lazy, but he can play any DT position in any defense. If you have a rotation of Branch, McCargo, Triplett, Williams, and Walker, with no one playing more than about half of the snaps, by the 4th quarter the interior of the oppponents OL will be DONE. Won't be able to run. Won't be able to maintain a pocket. And our dudes will be fresh. Everyone else on the defense will look better. With that kind of DL interior, guys like Ellison and Crowell can really use their athleticism without having to fight through too much traffic, and you could pick up Buster Davis or HB Blades in the third round - two guys who could also use their great instincts to dominate in the kind of space the DL would create. (They're probably not physically gifted enough to play well behind a mediocre DL.)

 

Okoye would also be good (and I know they might both be gone), but Branch is my current draft dreamboat. I think you improve your team more by having a dominant unit or two (particularly DL and OL) than you do by spreading your best players around at various positions.

 

And to save all you witty bastards some typing, yes I am smoking very good crack as I ride the short bus to the park where I have a season pass on the retard roller-coaster.

 

Crack notwithstanding, I think you make a good point. I actually see the Bills taking more of a run-stuffing DT either in the 1st or 2nd round. We are set with Walker/Triplett/McCargo at the 3 technique. Williams and Branch (with McCargo on occasion) at the other spot would give us depth and turn our d-line into a dominating unit.

[Sketch Soland]

And to save all you witty bastards some typing, yes I am smoking very good crack as I ride the short bus to the park where I have a season pass on the retard roller-coaster.

 

I must also this

[Last Guy on the Bench]

please, never post again

 

Can't promise that, but I can promise to take your incisive response into consideration as I continue to muse on this matter. You make several good points and present them very logically, but your post is a lot to take in in one sitting. Perhaps after I've had time to digest your argument, I'll come around to your point of view.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Crack notwithstanding, I think you make a good point. I actually see the Bills taking more of a run-stuffing DT either in the 1st or 2nd round. We are set with Walker/Triplett/McCargo at the 3 technique. Williams and Branch (with McCargo on occasion) at the other spot would give us depth and turn our d-line into a dominating unit.

 

Exactly. I'm like most people in that I don't find a DT pick particularly exciting. A shiny new LB or RB would be more fun. But I think the team would see the greatest improvement by turning the interior DL into something to fear.

[Tipster19]

Can't promise that, but I can promise to take your incisive response into consideration as I continue to muse on this matter. You make several good points and present them very logically, but your post is a lot to take in in one sitting. Perhaps after I've had time to digest your argument, I'll come around to your point of view.

 

 

Don't, I agree with you but instead of Branch I've been clamoring for Carriker. Convert him to a DT, he's alot more versatile and motivated. Oh yeah, by the way, I sold him the crack.

[The_Real]

And to save all you witty bastards some typing, yes I am smoking very good crack as I ride the short bus to the park where I have a season pass on the retard roller-coaster.

 

 

I'm not going to hate on your post or anything but you can't leave yourself this open for criticism. Not with the band of tough guys here on the wall.

 

Here is the deal, I believe we will draft a DT this year but it won't be in the first round. The necessity dropped with the Takeo Spikes trade. MLB has to be our focus and Willis has to be our guy. I'll be blown away if he's not.

 

 

The Real

[Last Guy on the Bench]

the only problem with this is that, as long as Hargrove is retained, and Anderson is not, that leaves the Bills with 4 DE, and 4 DT's (Hargrove can also play both) so adding another DT to the roster gives them a total of 9. Thats alot to carry and have dressed for games, so where do you take that extra guy from to make room on the roster?

 

Fair point, but it's not that unusual to carry nine DL. As for dressing them, probably not, but I could see dressing only 3 DEs or sitting out one of the DTs (there are always injuries anyway) and dressing 8 altogether. You could still have a nice 4-DT rotation on game day (and Denny can swing inside as well), and have a good chance that all 4 are pretty fresh and healthy (since you can sit the one who is most banged up at any given time).

[nemhoff]

With all due respect, this could be the reason that you're the last guy on the bench.

[cieslak86]

What is this obsession with avoiding skill positions? We NEED a RB...it's not difficult to understand. We have made moves through trade (D. Walker), free agency (L. Walker, Dockery, Whittle), and re-signings (Kelsay) to improve both our offensive and defensive lines. We did this so we wouldn't have to draft at those positions. I realize that the lines are a huge part of the game, but lord, how many do we need? There are other positions beyond the 2 lines. At this point, the lines are a strong suit on paper and that's good enough for me. If we took an offensive or defensive lineman in any of the first 3 rounds, it would be a blatent ignoring of our real needs (RB, LB, WR, CB).

 

Plus, Branch doesn't at all fit our defense. Our D favors smaller, quicker, penetrating D-lineman while Branch is a space-eater. He also is not known as a guy with a non-stop motor, which Marv and co. is obsessed with, so there is zero chance the Bills end up with Branch.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

With all due respect, this could be the reason that you're the last guy on the bench.

 

Nope. That's because I'm uncoordinated, legally blind, and 94 years old.

 

(But I have good character.)

[nemhoff]

Nope. That's because I'm uncoordinated, legally blind, and 94 years old.

 

(But I have good character.)

 

 

But do you have a high motor and are you relentless? If so TD will draft you and MK Jr. will love you.

[ncbillsfan]

With McCargo and Williams being in their early 20s, and in their respective second years in the league, added on to the fact that we just traded for Walker, there is no chance in hell we take a DT in the draft.....

 

McCargo has loads of potential and I doubt we take a DT in the first round again.

 

Then again what do i know?

[Kelly the Dog]

I, too, would strongly consider taking Branch or Okoye. It's a lot easier for an inferior LB to make a tackle on a RB who can't make it past the LOS because of the DL than it is for a superior LB to make that same tackle when the RB runs free into the secondary.

 

Also, with regard to Hargrove, he is much more of a DE than a DT and also, I believe Walker has played some on the outside, and Okoye or Branch could very likely rush from the outside.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

What is this obsession with avoiding skill positions? We NEED a RB...it's not difficult to understand. We have made moves through trade (D. Walker), free agency (L. Walker, Dockery, Whittle), and re-signings (Kelsay) to improve both our offensive and defensive lines. We did this so we wouldn't have to draft at those positions. I realize that the lines are a huge part of the game, but lord, how many do we need? There are other positions beyond the 2 lines. At this point, the lines are a strong suit on paper and that's good enough for me. If we took an offensive or defensive lineman in any of the first 3 rounds, it would be a blatent ignoring of our real needs (RB, LB, WR, CB).

 

Plus, Branch doesn't at all fit our defense. Our D favors smaller, quicker, penetrating D-lineman while Branch is a space-eater. He also is not known as a guy with a non-stop motor, which Marv and co. is obsessed with, so there is zero chance the Bills end up with Branch.

 

Well, first of all, I'm not obsessed with avoiding skill positions. I like them. Give me Peterson, trade for Turner, I'm happy. Draft Lynch, I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

Secondly, unlike many of you, I don't think there is only one way to look at this draft. I can see a reasonable case for a lot of positions and a lot of different players. I don't think someone who wants to draft an RB or LB or even an OL (Bill in NYC) is crazy. I think those would be nice upgrades to have. I just think creating one dominating unit is the way to go, and if I had to pick one unit to focus on, it would be the DL. Whatever.

 

Third, I don't think that is true about Branch. I think he will fit any kind of defense. As for the motor, that's what people are saying, and it might be true, but if it weren't there would be ZERO chance he was available at 12 (and even now there is only a small chance). Rotate him in for half of the plays. I guarantee no one will run on us. And the guy playing the other half of the plays at that spot (probably Williams, maybe McCargo) will be all fresh and pretty good as well.

 

And finally, I'm not predicting the Bills will do this. I have no idea what they are thinking. I just think it might make sense.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

Don't, I agree with you but instead of Branch I've been clamoring for Carriker. Convert him to a DT, he's alot more versatile and motivated. Oh yeah, by the way, I sold him the crack.

 

Yeah, I'd be happy with him too, especially if he could move inside. Before the Kelsay signing, I thought there was a good chance the Bills would consider him. He's a man among boys at the college level.

[Simon]

Can't promise that, but I can promise to take your incisive response into consideration as I continue to muse on this matter. You make several good points and present them very logically, but your post is a lot to take in in one sitting. Perhaps after I've had time to digest your argument, I'll come around to your point of view.

 

[JStranger76]

I wouldn't mind a draftee come in and make Larry "THE BUST" Tripplett the odd man out. The guy did next to NOTHING last year and if Branch or Okoye are available when we pick and we select one of em', get rid of Trippletts sorry ass. Walker will fill his role of penetrator and mentor of the young guys. Hey, we'd save some money out of it too.

[Astrobot]

I think Tim Anderson would be the odd man out.

We'd need to get rid of our least effective 1-gap guy.

[JStranger76]

Tripplett AND Anderson the odd men out!

[Astrobot]

97 McCargo, John DT 6-2 307 23 2 N.C. State

99 Jefferson, Jason DT 6-1 295 25 3 Wisconsin

98 Tripplett, Larry DT 6-2 293 28 6 Washington

96 Walker, Darwin DT 6-3 294 29 8 Tennessee

95 Williams, Kyle DT 6-1 306 23 2 LSU

 

I'd say that if we got Okoye, he would be the 1-gap guy with Williams, and the 3-gap guys would be McCargo and Darwin Walker. Since newly acquired Walker stays, it's now a decision whether to keep 4 DT's or 5, and where you cut a guy to compensate for 5 DT's. Tripplett would be the other man out if they keep 4.

 

If you keep 4 DE's, you keep Denney-Schobel-Kelsay, and the 4th spot will be between McNeill, Powell, and a draftee. At least one goes on the PS this year.

72 Neill, Ryan DE 6-3 253 24 1 Rutgers

91 Powell, Eric DE 6-3 284 27 2 Florida State

92 Denney, Ryan DE 6-7 264 29 6 BYU

94 Schobel, Aaron DE 6-4 243 29 7 TCU

90 Kelsay, Chris DE 6-4 261 27 5 Nebraska

[Steely Dan]

Okoye would also be good (and I know they might both be gone), but Branch is my current draft dreamboat. I think you improve your team more by having a dominant unit or two (particularly DL and OL) than you do by spreading your best players around at various positions.

I don't think Branch is even on the Bills draft board.

 

Don't, I agree with you but instead of Branch I've been clamoring for Carriker. Convert him to a DT, he's alot more versatile and motivated. Oh yeah, by the way, I sold him the crack.

 

I must be smoking it too because if it were up to me I'd take Carriker with the first pick. As you've pointed out he's versatile as hades. He's also huge and a great run stuffer with the character the Bills crave!

 

Arguements can be made for coverage sacks and I also believe that a great D-Line can make interceptions. If the QB is pressured consistantly he is forced to throw too soon or in a manner he's not accustomed to enabling the CB's to make more Interceptions. Carriker would help get the Bills a a lot more third and longs. Being 6'6" would help with more tipped passes too.

 

RB doesn't need to be addressed until the second round. There are a lot of great RB's that were second round picks. The guy I like here is Brian Leonard out of Rutgers. He may be gone by then though.

 

The two third rounders I'd spend on a CB and possibly another CB but more likely a WR.

[Astrobot]

I don't think Branch is even on the Bills draft board.

I must be smoking it too because if it were up to me I'd take Carriker with the first pick. As you've pointed out he's versatile as hades. He's also huge and a great run stuffer with the character the Bills crave!

 

Arguements can be made for coverage sacks and I also believe that a great D-Line can make interceptions. If the QB is pressured consistantly he is forced to throw too soon or in a manner he's not accustomed to enabling the CB's to make more Interceptions. Carriker would help get the Bills a a lot more third and longs. Being 6'6" would help with more tipped passes too.

 

RB doesn't need to be addressed until the second round. There are a lot of great RB's that were second round picks. The guy I like here is Brian Leonard out of Rutgers. He may be gone by then though.

 

The two third rounders I'd spend on a CB and possibly another CB but more likely a WR.

 

I wouldn't put it past the Bills brass, but it would be a Whitneresque pick.

Now if they trade back into RD#1, and grab another guy, it'd be a 2006-esque pick.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Exactly. I'm like most people in that I don't find a DT pick particularly exciting. A shiny new LB or RB would be more fun. But I think the team would see the greatest improvement by turning the interior DL into something to fear.

 

In fact, I wonder if Marv isn't taking a page out of Chuck Noll's book: you win in the trenches. If we have dominating o and d-lines, I think our shortcomings (like LB or RB) won't be significant.

[Rubes]

Well, at least it's not another thread about Turner.

 

For that, I give it a big

[obie_wan]

97 McCargo, John DT 6-2 307 23 2 N.C. State

99 Jefferson, Jason DT 6-1 295 25 3 Wisconsin

98 Tripplett, Larry DT 6-2 293 28 6 Washington

96 Walker, Darwin DT 6-3 294 29 8 Tennessee

95 Williams, Kyle DT 6-1 306 23 2 LSU

 

I'd say that if we got Okoye, he would be the 1-gap guy with Williams, and the 3-gap guys would be McCargo and Darwin Walker. Since newly acquired Walker stays, it's now a decision whether to keep 4 DT's or 5, and where you cut a guy to compensate for 5 DT's. Tripplett would be the other man out if they keep 4.

 

If you keep 4 DE's, you keep Denney-Schobel-Kelsay, and the 4th spot will be between McNeill, Powell, and a draftee. At least one goes on the PS this year.

72 Neill, Ryan DE 6-3 253 24 1 Rutgers

91 Powell, Eric DE 6-3 284 27 2 Florida State

92 Denney, Ryan DE 6-7 264 29 6 BYU

94 Schobel, Aaron DE 6-4 243 29 7 TCU

90 Kelsay, Chris DE 6-4 261 27 5 Nebraska

 

you left out hargrove.

 

With a team with serious holes, you don't keep burning resources on a posiition which is already maxed out.

 

This team has zero bona fide starting LBs that are healthy.

[billybob]

I know DT isn't our weakest position, but I keep thinking about what could really help the Bills make the leap this year. The number one answer is that JP improve as much this year as he did last year (i.e., basically move from middle of the pack to a top 10 QB).

 

But I think turning the middle of our D line into a freaking shark tank is the next most effective maneuver. I think Branch will be long gone at 12, but a lot of people see him slipping a bit. If he were there, I'd take him without pause. He may be a little lazy, but he can play any DT position in any defense. If you have a rotation of Branch, McCargo, Triplett, Williams, and Walker, with no one playing more than about half of the snaps, by the 4th quarter the interior of the oppponents OL will be DONE. Won't be able to run. Won't be able to maintain a pocket. And our dudes will be fresh. Everyone else on the defense will look better. With that kind of DL interior, guys like Ellison and Crowell can really use their athleticism without having to fight through too much traffic, and you could pick up Buster Davis or HB Blades in the third round - two guys who could also use their great instincts to dominate in the kind of space the DL would create. (They're probably not physically gifted enough to play well behind a mediocre DL.)

 

Okoye would also be good (and I know they might both be gone), but Branch is my current draft dreamboat. I think you improve your team more by having a dominant unit or two (particularly DL and OL) than you do by spreading your best players around at various positions.

 

And to save all you witty bastards some typing, yes I am smoking very good crack as I ride the short bus to the park where I have a season pass on the retard roller-coaster.

If Branch is there I'd take him and consider my self blessed- the Bills are not going to fill all their holes with top line players so lets get a top line DT- and don't Blah blah blah about cover two DTs - one of the reasons people are suppose to like the cover two is because it's so hard to find massive athletes- well we had one last year in Ngata and we'd be fools to let a second slip by - btw you'd think the football geniuses would have figured out its also hard to find the super quick DTs like Sapp and Harris that make a really effective cover 2- when you got little guys who are just kinda quick then you just kinda suck.

[Steely Dan]

you left out hargrove.

 

With a team with serious holes, you don't keep burning resources on a posiition which is already maxed out.

 

This team has zero bona fide starting LBs that are healthy.

 

The team is stocked at the "3" position but doesn't have one decent run stopper among them. linebacker could be a third round pick and again later too and I don't think it would hurt the team too much. I also don't think there will be a linebacker worth the 12th pick available then. Willis will probably be gone. If he's there I'd consider him but Carriker is a special talent who can play every position on the line.

 

The best case scenario IMO would be Carriker in the first round and this guy in the second. One mock draft has him going to Buffalo in the second round;

 

While Mississippi's Patrick Willis, Florida State's Buster Davis and Pittsburgh's H.B. Blades garner the majority of the attention at middle linebacker in this draft, many experts feel Siler might be the most consistent performer among this quartet. A knee injury late in the 2006 season hampered his performances, but Siler has the valid instincts you look for in a classic 4-3 inside defender.

 

Siler was rated the fourth-best outside linebacker in the nation and a four-star athlete by Rivals.com as a senior at Evans High School. He was regarded as the 26th-best prospect in the state of Florida in Super Prep's All-American issue and ranked as the 14th-best linebacker in the country and the fifth-rated linebacker in the South by TheInsiders.com. He was a member of the TheInsiders.com Southern Hot 100 and listed 21st on the Orlando Sentinel's list of the state's top 100 prospects.

 

The Florida Sports Writers Association Class 6A second-team All-State selection as a linebacker, Siler also competed as a tight end and defensive end. He recorded 103 tackles, five sacks and four fumble recoveries on defense and had 70 carries for 530 yards and 10 touchdowns as a senior. He was named MVP of the 2003 Cali-Florida All-Star game in which he made two interceptions. Siler graduated with a 4.2 grade point average.

 

The talented defender chose Florida over Tennessee and Maryland, enrolling at the school in 2004 and starting six of 12 games he appeared in. He was named to the Football Writers Association Freshman All-American team and earned Southeastern Conference Freshman of the Year honors. Siler competed in 657 snaps, leading the team with 77 tackles (50 solos), including two sacks, 9.5 stops for losses, three pressures and three pass break-ups. He was also a member of the SEC Academic Honor Roll.

 

In 2005, Siler started every game at middle linebacker. He finished second on the team with 64 tackles (33 solos), produced nine stops behind the line of scrimmage, four sacks and three pressures. He deflected four passes and set a school single-season record and led the conference with seven fumble recoveries. He also garnered Academic All-District III accolades.

 

A member of the school's Leadership Committee, Siler started the 13 games he appeared in, sitting out vs. Western Carolina with a knee injury in 2006. He earned All-SEC second-team honors from the league's coaches, as he ranked second on the team with 77 tackles (55 solos). He posted three sacks, three pressures and 10 stops for losses, and caused and recovered one fumble.

 

In 37 games at Florida, Siler started 31 times. He finished his career with 218 tackles (133 solos), nine sacks for minus- 61 yards and 28.5 stops for losses totaling 111 yards. He was credited with 13 quarterback pressures and ten pass deflections. He recovered eight fumbles, including one that he returned 19 yards, had one forced fumble and registered a safety.

 

In the third round RB's Kenny Irons, falling due to injuries last year none really serious. Also Michael Bush could be available in this round. Lorenzo booker should be available too.

[Astrobot]

I did forget Hargrove. However, so did the Bills on their Roster By Position. MEa Culpa.

I think one-trick ponies like Hargrove and Anderson are on their way out. If you can't defend the run and the pass, you'll be gone. Okoye can do both, and I'd be leased to have him on my team at the end of Round 1. In fact, if it's Okoye-Poz after Round 1 I'm buying season tickets.

[obie_wan]

If Branch is there I'd take him and consider my self blessed- the Bills are not going to fill all their holes with top line players so lets get a top line DT- and don't Blah blah blah about cover two DTs - one of the reasons people are suppose to like the cover two is because it's so hard to find massive athletes- well we had one last year in Ngata and we'd be fools to let a second slip by - btw you'd think the football geniuses would have figured out its also hard to find the super quick DTs like Sapp and Harris that make a really effective cover 2- when you got little guys who are just kinda quick then you just kinda suck.

 

cover -2 or not

 

Branch is lazy, soft and unmotivated- similar to the last oversized we drafted.

 

no thanks

[John from Riverside]

I am not going to say that this cannot happen because anything is possible in the draft but.....

 

In my own humble opinion...I would flat out be shocked if we took a DL or OL in the first round because we flat out addressed the position not only this offseason....but in last years draft.

 

To me it would not make sence to go either LB, RB, or Corner (in no particular order) because those are GLARING holes on the team.