TigerJ Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Put Losman on the Bears in this game, at home, on a roll, with that line and defense and running game, and put Grossman on the Bills with their defense and running game, etc., and this game would have turned out pretty much exactly the same way. 799124[/snapback] One can never be sure, but that seems pretty reasonable to me. Losman was playing well until his teammates started dropping balls on him, committing stupid penalties and otherwise putting him in a hole where he had to pass, or doom his team to another three and out. Chicago is able to get lots of pressure rushing only 4 and dropping 7 into coverage, so when the other team is always facing 3rd and long and is well behind to boot, turnovers are going to happen. It's a no brainer. If Buffalo plays conservative and ends up punting the whole game even when way behind, Losman and Jauron are going to be bashed for that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Put Losman on the Bears in this game, at home, on a roll, with that line and defense and running game, and put Grossman on the Bills with their defense and running game, etc., and this game would have turned out pretty much exactly the same way. 799124[/snapback] As usual, anyone but Losman..... While I do agree that our Coaches and running game did not put Losman in a position to succeed today, Losman is justly deserving of criticism for not executing what was asked of him today..... JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Grossman's play in his first 3 years, on the few occasions he's BEEN healthy, was no better than JP's first 2 years. The difference is that the Bears offense is in the 2nd year of their scheme and the Bears have an amazing defense. 799169[/snapback] Shirley, you can't be serious. Did you see Losman's games against the Bucs and Saints last year????? JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 As usual, anyone but Losman..... While I do agree that our Coaches and running game did not put Losman in a position to succeed today, Losman is justly deserving of criticism for not executing what was asked of him today..... JDG 799447[/snapback] He was horrible today. What do you mean anyone but Losman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 He was horrible today. What do you mean anyone but Losman? 799451[/snapback] Your comment that Losman would have blown out the Bills 40-7 if he had been on the Bears.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Shirley, you can't be serious. Did you see Losman's games against the Bucs and Saints last year????? Did you see Grossman against the Packers or the Panthers in the playoffs last year? And don't call me Shirley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Did you see Grossman against the Packers or the Panthers in the playoffs last year? 799453[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Your comment that Losman would have blown out the Bills 40-7 if he had been on the Bears.... 799452[/snapback] Anyone but Losman implies I am not blaming him for the loss, as in it's always anyone's fault but Losman's, which is completely foolish because I put a lot of blame on him, all the time. He was as responsible for this loss as anyone. He did nothing well and played terrible. But it's a team game. Without a run game, without getting a lot of players open, with a steady rush, down by 10-20-30 points on the road against the best team in the league right now, other quarterbacks would very likely have been just as bad. You seem incapable of reading comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You saw those games as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You saw those games as well? 799461[/snapback] Yeah he didn't cover Steve Smith very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Yeah he didn't cover Steve Smith very well. 799463[/snapback] What does covering Steve Smith have to do with going 17 for 41 for 192 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT? Was JP covering the Bears' WR's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Did you see Grossman against the Packers or the Panthers in the playoffs last year? And don't call me Shirley. 799453[/snapback] Indeed I did.... and as bad as those games were, what does it tell you that Losman's were worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Indeed I did.... and as bad as those games were, what does it tell you that Losman's were worse? LOL! JP's 2nd and 3rd start were worse than Grossman's 7th and 8th start? You're REALLY reaching there, JDG. And JP hasn't had a defense like Grossman has had the past 2 years. Hell Kyle Orton and his 59.7 QB rating led the Bears to a 9-6 record last year, if that tells you anything. I'm not excusing JP for his play, but Matt Hasselbeck, a Pro Bowl QB who was the best QB in the SB last year, looked just as bad. And the whole TEAM stunk. But again, the Bills are in the first year of a rebuilding year, with new schemes on offense and defense. The Bears are in their 3rd year of a new regime. See a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 It's still a Fair & Balanced As* Whooping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 That's a tough point to make. JP has 4 tds to 4 ints. Grossman has 10 tds to 3 ints. Right now, Grossman is a better QB no matter what team he is on. 799158[/snapback] I think one thing that is being overlooked, is that the Bills, and maybe two other teams (Packers and Ravens) seemed to think of JP Losman as a first round draft pick. He was widely regarded as one of the top 5 QB's in the 2004 draft, but, to most, there was a big gap between Roethlisberger, Rivers, Manning and JP Losman. Losman came from Tulane, hardly a football powerhouse. JP came into the leauge as a much rawer prospect than Rex Grossman. Grossman likely is the better QB right now, but that does not mean it will always be that way. Losman had a lot more to learn, and has had to try to do that learning in a very dysfunctional atmosphere. It seems we are getting too caught up in the idea that Losman is a first round pick.... Today's loss aside, I am very pleased with the remarkable progress Losman has been making. It his hard to take anything real positive out of a 40-7 loss, but I was impressed, a little, in that I never got that sense of mental surrender from the Bills today, that we have grown accustomed to the last few years. The Bills got destroyed today, by a far superior team. Losman made some mistakes, the coaches made some mistakes. No reason though, to get too discouraged. I know there was a lot of bluster on TSW about how the Bills would beat the Bears today, but you had to know that it wasn't very likely to happen. To me, it sucked watching the Bills lose, to be sure, but I think the Bills are still very much on the right track. They will get there...and I think will be very similar to the team playing in Chicago, in a year or two.....Jp playing the part of Rex Grossman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I dont know about the outcome, but Grossman SHOULD have been intercepted about 3 times today but the media will never mention that. 799133[/snapback] EXACTLY!!! Yes, this is a shoulda, woulda, and coulda... And sounds like sour grapes... I just don't buy the hype yet in this town and the rest of the league... It is easy to get over rated in this town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SactoBillFan Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Nope, I have been pretty even keeled on him, as I said I would before the season. I am giving him one more chance and as I sai before the season we'll see by about week 10. If he is winning more than losing, and he stops being a major factor in our loses then I will gove him his dues. But.... 799207[/snapback] No you havn't and no you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatPatPatSack Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I don't know. Sorry I'm a bit ticked off at how i had to walk out of a bar full of bears fans with my head down. 799155[/snapback] uh, with your head down? since when do you live your life based on the accomplishments of others? Hey the Bills came to play. And they did. You leave the bar saying, that's one freakin fine team the/you Bears have assembled this year. Then find somebody and go outside and throw the football around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 uh, with your head down? since when do you live your life based on the accomplishments of others? Hey the Bills came to play. And they did. You leave the bar saying, that's one freakin fine team the/you Bears have assembled this year. Then find somebody and go outside and throw the football around. 799495[/snapback] Remember I am a Buffalo fan... I am incapable of doing this... The day the city of Buffalo wins a championship will be a double edged sword... I almost dread it... We will be like Red Sox and Chicago fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 [quote name=ExiledInIllinois' date='Oct 8 2006, 11:22 PM The day the city of Buffalo wins a championship will be a double edged sword... I almost dread it... We will be like Red Sox and Chicago fans! [/quote] It seems like we have the dejected, whining, inferiority complex part down pretty good, now we just have to "learn how to win"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 [quote name=ExiledInIllinois' date='Oct 8 2006, 11:22 PM The day the city of Buffalo wins a championship will be a double edged sword... I almost dread it... We will be like Red Sox and Chicago fans! [/quote] It seems like we have the dejected, whining, inferiority complex part down pretty good, now we just have to "learn how to win"! 799526[/snapback] Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 He was horrible today. What do you mean anyone but Losman? 799451[/snapback] The whole team was horrible today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Thansk for the tip...I'm new here 799290[/snapback] Another tip: Set ignored user list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 It seems like you always prefer personal attacks than being rational. Shirley, you can't be serious. 799450[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 When will you understand that this offensive line doesn't protect the QB? But keep up with your comparisons if that makes you feel better about yourself. 799183[/snapback] When it came to pass protection, I thought our offensive line did a decent job. Not a top-10 job, but not a bottom-10 job either. Yes there were times when individual linemen got beaten too quickly, but there were other times when Losman had pretty good time to throw. It's a step forward from last year, when sometimes the line looked like it wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 When it came to pass protection, I thought our offensive line did a decent job. Not a top-10 job, but not a bottom-10 job either. Yes there were times when individual linemen got beaten too quickly, but there were other times when Losman had pretty good time to throw. It's a step forward from last year, when sometimes the line looked like it wasn't there. 799547[/snapback] Good point. The Bears went without Ogunleye, a feared pass rusher. They still managed 3 sacks (and a forced fumble), as well as countless pressures. As for the running game, the leading rusher in the NFL was held to 50 yards, his longest run being all of 11. Most of these 50 he got on his own. Step forward, huh? I happen to be one who enjoys your qb debates. Message boards were made for discussion. Having said that, if you were 10% as patient with JP as you are with these time tested stiffs, your screen name would surely be: "JP Is Better Than Joe Montana In His Prime." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 LOL! JP's 2nd and 3rd start were worse than Grossman's 7th and 8th start? You're REALLY reaching there, JDG. And JP hasn't had a defense like Grossman has had the past 2 years. Hell Kyle Orton and his 59.7 QB rating led the Bears to a 9-6 record last year, if that tells you anything. I'm not excusing JP for his play, but Matt Hasselbeck, a Pro Bowl QB who was the best QB in the SB last year, looked just as bad. And the whole TEAM stunk. But again, the Bills are in the first year of a rebuilding year, with new schemes on offense and defense. The Bears are in their 3rd year of a new regime. See a difference? 799468[/snapback] Sorry, but you are completely backwards. You are the person who argued that Grossman was just as bad in his first 8 starts as JP Losman. I pointed out that in just the first 12 games, JP Losman had *three* games that were worse than any game that Rex Grossman had. *YOU* are the person who tried comparing Losman's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th games to Grossman's 7th and 8th starts. As for Matt Hasselbeck, he had a bad game against the Bears - but there are different levels of bad. Hasselbeck managed to pass for 196 yards before getting pulled with 7:43 left in the game. By comparison, Losman managed a measely 89 yards - less than half! - on 10 of 22 passing. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Sorry JDG, for the team around Grossman and his prior starting experience, his games WERE essentially as bad. Spin it any way you like, but thems the facts. Put JP on the Bears this year, and they're 5-0 as well. And Hasselbeck has been in Seattle's system for HOW long now? Again, for the team around him... Keep at it though, you're winning everyone over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I'm not sure what they are basing this on but I've read at least three NFL message board threads over recent weeks (not BIlls boards) where non-biased fans have stated that JP is the dumbest QB in football. Maybe it's that he is starting to turn it over a lot or he doesn't take the easy play when its there. I don't know but it's not encouraging when other fans think your QB is dumb. My general opinion is that JP is getting better but 3 turnovers in any game is bad,,,,,twice in 3 weeks is very bad. That got Warner benched. B/T/W i like JP but the Bears are not winning that Vikings game with JP at the helm instead of Grossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I'm not sure what they are basing this on but I've read at least three NFL message board threads over recent weeks (not BIlls boards) where non-biased fans have stated that JP is the dumbest QB in football. Maybe it's that he is starting to turn it over a lot or he doesn't take the easy play when its there. I don't know but it's not encouraging when other fans think your QB is dumb. Other fans are dumb. My general opinion is that JP is getting better but 3 turnovers in any game is bad,,,,,twice in 3 weeks is very bad. That got Warner benched.B/T/W i like JP but the Bears are not winning that Vikings game with JP at the helm instead of Grossman. Yeah, no way JP beats the Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 B/T/W i like JP but the Bears are not winning that Vikings game with JP at the helm instead of Grossman. 799721[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Good point. The Bears went without Ogunleye, a feared pass rusher. They still managed 3 sacks (and a forced fumble), as well as countless pressures. As for the running game, the leading rusher in the NFL was held to 50 yards, his longest run being all of 11. Most of these 50 he got on his own. Step forward, huh? I happen to be one who enjoys your qb debates. Message boards were made for discussion. Having said that, if you were 10% as patient with JP as you are with these time tested stiffs, your screen name would surely be: "JP Is Better Than Joe Montana In His Prime." 799565[/snapback] I agree that the run blocking wasn't there. You're also right in saying that there were times when the offensive line got beaten. I remember one play in particular when Gandy got beaten like an egg at a cooking competition; and I wouldn't mind seeing his position addressed early in the 2007 draft. But there were a number of pass plays where the line looked like a real, legitimate NFL offensive line. It was certainly better than some of the putrid displays we'd become used to seeing last year. I'm not arguing that the current makeup of our line is the answer, because it probably isn't. But it is a step forward from where we were last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I agree that the run blocking wasn't there. You're also right in saying that there were times when the offensive line got beaten. I remember one play in particular when Gandy got beaten like an egg at a cooking competition; and I wouldn't mind seeing his position addressed early in the 2007 draft. But there were a number of pass plays where the line looked like a real, legitimate NFL offensive line. It was certainly better than some of the putrid displays we'd become used to seeing last year. I'm not arguing that the current makeup of our line is the answer, because it probably isn't. But it is a step forward from where we were last year. 799791[/snapback] I noticed you weren't around much last week. I was pretty sure you'd be back this week. You're a troll, nothing more and nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You're a troll, nothing more and nothing less. 799812[/snapback] Let's see . . . I point out that the Bills' offensive line did a significantly better job in pass protection against Chicago than it did in many games last year. Your response to this observation is to call me a troll! If you keep this up, you'll win the tard of the week award. Oh wait . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Let's see . . . I point out that the Bills' offensive line did a significantly better job in pass protection against Chicago than it did in many games last year. Your response to this observation is to call me a troll! If you keep this up, you'll win the tard of the week award. Oh wait . . . 799829[/snapback] Your very PRESENCE is troll-like. You disappear when Losman has a good game and reappear when he doesn't. You're a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Your very PRESENCE is troll-like. You disappear when Losman has a good game and reappear when he doesn't. You're a troll. 799837[/snapback] After the Jets game, I acknowledged that Losman looked solid in that game. The only Losman-related comment I've made about the Chicago game is that the offensive line sometimes did a good job with pass protection, and at other times didn't. That's it. I haven't described Losman's performance against Chicago as a harbinger of bad performances to come, and I certainly haven't suggested this game was proof that I was right while others were wrong. In other words, I've shown a lot more self-restraint than some of Losman's more, um, vocal supporters did after the Jets game. As I wrote after the Jets game, I intend to be relatively quiet about the QB position for the next few weeks. Once those weeks are over, we'll have a better idea as to what have or don't have in Jonathan Paul Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Sorry JDG, for the team around Grossman and his prior starting experience, his games WERE essentially as bad. Spin it any way you like, but thems the facts. Put JP on the Bears this year, and they're 5-0 as well. And Hasselbeck has been in Seattle's system for HOW long now? Again, for the team around him... Keep at it though, you're winning everyone over. 799633[/snapback] That makes no sense. You have no idea how JP rates VS Grossman's intagibles. You can't say that Grossman and Lossman would do the same thing in the same situation. Grossman doesn't lock on to one receiver, he sees the field. He hits his open men on deep routes. The Bears D has been unbelievable this year, but Rex is having a fantastic year as well. There's no way you can infer that given the same set of circumstances that JP would perform the same way. Its another excuse that you have to come up with when your QB performs mediocre at best. Just let it be. If he's going to make, he will. Your defending him like he's your first born has nothing to do with his success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 That makes no sense. You have no idea how JP rates VS Grossman's intagibles. You can't say that Grossman and Lossman would do the same thing in the same situation. Grossman doesn't lock on to one receiver, he sees the field. He hits his open men on deep routes. The Bears D has been unbelievable this year, but Rex is having a fantastic year as well. There's no way you can infer that given the same set of circumstances that JP would perform the same way. Its another excuse that you have to come up with when your QB performs mediocre at best. Just let it be. If he's going to make, he will. Your defending him like he's your first born has nothing to do with his success. 799879[/snapback] That's a difference, in this mythical team swap. JP completes 9 to Evans (and tossed a number of more his way), 1 to Price, and 4 to the rb McGahee. His 1st int was a ball headed to Evans...the little bear cubs up in the booth had figured out what was going on. IIRC, he spread them around against MIN. Grossman hit 8 different receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Your very PRESENCE is troll-like. You disappear when Losman has a good game and reappear when he doesn't. You're a troll. 799837[/snapback] He's making intelligent points and your response is to call him a troll. No matter what they post, everyone jumps on HA and JDG immediately and without a second thought. You're looking like far more of a troll than he is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 That makes no sense. You have no idea how JP rates VS Grossman's intagibles. You can't say that Grossman and Lossman would do the same thing in the same situation. Grossman doesn't lock on to one receiver, he sees the field. He hits his open men on deep routes. The Bears D has been unbelievable this year, but Rex is having a fantastic year as well. There's no way you can infer that given the same set of circumstances that JP would perform the same way. Its another excuse that you have to come up with when your QB performs mediocre at best. Just let it be. If he's going to make, he will. Your defending him like he's your first born has nothing to do with his success. Last year Kyle Orton led the Bears to a 9-6 record and could have led them to 10-6 AS A ROOKIE. So yeah, I CAN say that JP would be undefeated with the Bears and that defense, especially if he was in his 2nd year in the offense. As for seeing the field and not locking-onto one WR, JP's been spreading the ball around all season long. Yesterday he had so many drops from the WR's not named Evans, he stopped looking for everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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