11 STARTS....

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

I recall Jimbo retiring after that season.  Preceded by a bogus grounding call too.

789741[/snapback]

 

 

and i think we'd all agree that should have kept him out of the hall of fame. additionally, we could go back farther, to the early days, and find another bad decision to banter about.

 

losman is better than he was last year, through 3 games. he's shown promise, he's made mistakes. time will tell if he's our guy for the future.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

The only telling moment was when the game was on the line and JP crapped the bed.  Nothing else he did in the game matters.

 

And to compare JP to a HOF QB is an embarrassment. Kelly made a ton of bad throws in games. But when the game was on the line you knew what you had. You knew you had a chance. You knew the ball was going down field. Did any of JP throws make it past the first down marker on the final drive? I don't think they did.

 

As far as Levy goes. You don't still believe he is the Bills GM do you. That's he is somehow something more then a glorified Walmart greeter that gets paid to tell jokes to the media? You can't be that gullible. But then again that's what the Bills were counting on. 

789816[/snapback]

 

 

i limited my comparison to the afore-mentioned 4 plays that you judged him by. i was referencing his attitude, or more accurately my perception of his attitude at that point in the game. honestly, i don't really know if he was frustrated. he just seemed to be.

 

as for your comment about "nothing else" that he did in the game being of consequence, i disagree. it all matters. the schemes the coaches called, the play of the line, the play of the rb's, the play of the receivers, and so on.

 

i do think marv is more than a glorifed walmart greeter, so i could be that gullible.

[ganesh]

And to compare JP to a HOF QB is an embarrassment. Kelly made a ton of bad throws in games. But when the game was on the line you knew what you had. You knew you had a chance. You knew the ball was going down field. Did any of JP throws make it past the first down marker on the final drive? I don't think they did.

 

789816[/snapback]

 

How many such games did Jim win. I am sure Jim had his fair share of success, but I don't think he was 100% successful in all his comeback games.

 

The 4th down throw was beyond the 1st down marker...If the throw had been good and caught, it would have been a 1st down.

[ganesh]

As of now, I'm pretty neutral on J.P., I want him to be great because I'm a Bills fan, but I also understand that just because he is a Bill does not MAKE him great. While I'm not about to give up on J.P. because of a hand full of plays these last 11 games ................. I'm not about to annoint him the second coming based on a handful of plays these last 11 games.

789835[/snapback]

 

Perfect. No one is arguing that JP is the rebirth of Jim Kelly. The guy has all the tools and talent to succeed in the NFL and needs to be given the chance to make it. If he fails miserably this season, then he would have been given a fair shot and it is time for the Bills to move on.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Perfect. No one is arguing that JP is the rebirth of Jim Kelly. The guy has all the tools and talent to succeed in the NFL and needs to be given the chance to make it.  If he fails miserably this season, then he would have been given a fair shot and it is time for the Bills to move on.

789995[/snapback]

 

 

bingo, well said.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Thank you. I will make you proud...

789276[/snapback]

 

You can't TRY and win the award. You just earn it through sheer asshattery (or a bunch of people who want to give you hell).

 

[I Forgot My Last Username]

Didn't Rob Johnson do something awesome with one shoe on at the end of some game?

 

Why is this not being discussed?

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Didn't Rob Johnson do something awesome with one shoe on at the end of some game? 

 

Why is this not being discussed?

 

790246[/snapback]

Have you ever actually tried to throw a football with one shoe on and one shoe off? I have.

 

It's really easy.

[tornado681]

i know everyone wants to win now and become a firm playoff contender year in and year out but it takes time.  the most important part of becoming a playoff team and being competitive is having a solid if not spectacular qb!  it took kelly a couple of years, same with steve young and brett farve, drew brees the list goes on and on.  i think if losman gradually improves as the season goes on then next year we will truly find out if he can be great.  the learning curve for a qb at the professional level literally takes 3-4 years.  it becomes prolonged behind a suspect o-line( b-lo o-line)   just give this offense some time.  i am almost positive that losman mcgahee evans parrish and peters are under 25.  it took levy and polian 3-4 years to build the superbowl teams.  with this front office it will happen just be realistic and not so judgemental of such a talented kid in his learning stage!

 

go bills!

789266[/snapback]

 

I am so sick of people throwing around words like "learning curve" etc. Its Lossman's 3rd year and still hasnt won us a game on his own. We need a QB that can do that. Bills fans need to stop babying him. It makes me want to puke. Until he proves to me that he can lead us on that game winning drive late in the 4th, we're not going to make the playoffs. JP, prove me wrong. I want you to buddy

[DeLuca1967]

How many such games did Jim win.  I am sure Jim had his fair share of success, but I don't think he was  100% successful in all his comeback games.

 

The 4th down throw was beyond the 1st down marker...If the throw had been good and caught, it would have been a 1st down.

789992[/snapback]

 

Yes it was. By a yard. The pass was short so I'm not sure if the ball made it past.

 

And, no Kelly wasn't 100%. And, to somehow turn this into a Kelly/Losman debate is insane. Kelly was stud QB the moment he stepped off the campus of the 'U of Miami'. The class of '83 was the greatest QB class of alltime. If you want to compare Losman to a QB of that year try Todd Blackledge.

 

Losman only has 11 starts for two reasons.

 

1 - Injury

 

2- He wasn't good enough.

 

You and others won't like this. It's time for Losman to make it happen and for fans to stop making excuses.

[/dev/null]

You and others won't like this. It's time for Losman to make it happen and for fans to stop making excuses.

790376[/snapback]

Amen

[rocketbills]

here is something i'm gonna throw out just to try and put things into perspective a little bit. i don't really care if JP is a boom or a bust. i just want to see the bills get back to the glory days and i will go on record as saying i feel much more comfortable with the direction the team is headed in now under the new mgmt. as opposed to mur'lack'y and company.

 

peyton manning went 3-13 during his first 16 starts. yes, that happened to be his first full season also, just in case you were wondering. i know JP is now in his 3rd season but how much do you really think he learned sitting on the bench in year one? real game experience can not be replicated and as far as I am concerned, JP has the 'on field' experience of a 2nd year QB, not a 3rd year. back to peyton- his rookie season, or his first full year as a starter, he threw 28 interceptions. over the course of his first 3 full seasons as a starter, he tossed 58 interceptions and fumbled the ball 14 times. I will go ahead and say that his teams went to the playoffs during his second and third full seasons as starting QB. Will JP be able to take Buffalo to the playoffs next year (2nd full season as a starter) and the year after (3rd full season as a starter)? that remains to be seen. but i do think the kid is showing promise and until he has atleast 20+ games under his belt, I am not going to judge him one way or the other.

 

In closing I will say this. this is the first time I am 100% happy in a season post-bledsoe that Drew is not still behind center. or holcomb for that matter. JP is saving several downs each game playing behind an average O.line with his scrambling ability. I love the kids moxy, but I do admit I need to see more development and maturation before I anoint him the next great bills starter. but as he is the bills QB for now, i am backing him 100%. ok, sorry for the rant. just some random thoughts on the bills qb situation as it stands right now.

 

Go bills!!!!!

[Ramius]

You can't TRY and win the award. You just earn it through sheer asshattery (or a bunch of people who want to give you hell).

 

790170[/snapback]

 

Looking at the posts before this, i think tornado and Deluca are going to easily beat out SCbills for the award.

 

TotW isnt something to be taken lightly. Deluca and tornado dont even need to try to win the award, it just comes naturally.

[Dibs]

I am so sick of people throwing around words like "learning curve" etc.  Its Lossman's 3rd year and still hasnt won us a game on his own. We need a QB that can do that.   Bills fans need to stop babying him.  It makes me want to puke.  Until he proves to me that he can lead us on that game winning drive late in the 4th, we're not going to make the playoffs.  JP, prove me wrong.  I want you to buddy

790366[/snapback]

Oh, well....I guess we should just get one then.

They're a dime a dozen aren't they?

[The Poojer]

oh no he din--ent!!!!!! this sounds like sucking up to me

 

Darin? 

789539[/snapback]

[DeLuca1967]

here is something i'm gonna throw out just to try and put things into perspective a little bit.  i don't really care if JP is a boom or a bust.  i just want to see the bills get back to the glory days and i will go on record as saying i feel much more comfortable with the direction the team is headed in now under the new mgmt. as opposed to mur'lack'y and company.

 

peyton manning went 3-13 during his first 16 starts.  yes, that happened to be his first full season also, just in case you were wondering.  i know JP is now in his 3rd season but how much do you really think he learned sitting on the bench in year one?  real game experience can not be replicated and as far as I am concerned, JP has the 'on field' experience of a 2nd year QB, not a 3rd year.  back to peyton- his rookie season, or his first full year as a starter, he threw 28 interceptions.  over the course of his first 3 full seasons as a starter, he tossed 58 interceptions and fumbled  the ball 14 times.  I will go ahead and say that his teams went to the playoffs during his second and third full seasons as starting QB.  Will JP be able to take Buffalo to the playoffs next year (2nd full season as a starter) and the year after (3rd full season as a starter)?  that remainsto be seen.  but i do think the kid is showing promise and until he has atleast 20+ games under his belt, I am not going to judge him one way or the other. 

 

In closing I will say this.  this is the first time I am 100% happy in a season post-bledsoe that Drew is not still behind center.  or holcomb for that matter.  JP is saving several downs each game playing behind an average O.line with his scrambling ability.  I love the kids moxy, but I do admit I need to see more development and maturation before I anoint him the next great bills starter.  but as he is the bills QB for now, i am backing him 100%.  ok, sorry for the rant.  just some random thoughts on the bills qb situation as it stands right now.

 

Go bills!!!!!

790395[/snapback]

 

Peyton Manning was a better NFL QB the day he was drafted then Losman is right now.

 

And did you say "moxy"? Players with "moxy" don't take sacks in th end zone with the score tied in the fourth quarter. Players with "moxy" don't destroy final drives like Losman did against the Jets.

 

Losman has raw ability that doesn't go much beyond the physical. He may want to be a NFL QB, he may be willing to do all the work he can at it. You either have that NFL QB mentality or you don't. Inkman tried to make some point in a earlier post. He named QB's like Farve and Brees. He named QB's that showed that something special early.

 

Who Inkman didn't name are Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mire and others, who like Losman, had the talent and the arms but didn't have the NFL QB sense they needed to be solid NFL QB's.

 

I know it reads like I hate JP Losman. I don't. I never met the guy. I hate the idea of more time going by without this team finding it's franchise QB. It's been 10 years since Kelly retired. To think that this team will be going into the next off season looking again for their next starting QB just brings to light how far from being real contenders they are.

[inkman]

Do you think the Bills have a better option for this year?

[Alaska Darin]

Peyton Manning was a better NFL QB the day he was drafted then Losman is right now.

 

And did you say "moxy"? Players with "moxy" don't take sacks in th end zone with the score tied in the fourth quarter. Players with "moxy" don't destroy final drives like Losman did against the Jets.

 

Losman has raw ability that doesn't go much beyond the physical. He may want to be a NFL QB, he may be willing to do all the work he can at it. You either have that NFL QB mentality or you don't. Inkman tried to make some point in a earlier post. He named QB's like Farve and Brees. He named QB's that showed that something special early.

 

Who Inkman didn't name are Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mire and others, who like Losman, had the talent and the arms but didn't have the NFL QB sense they needed  to be solid NFL QB's.   

 

I know it reads like I hate JP Losman. I don't. I never met the guy. I hate the idea of  more time going by without this team finding it's franchise QB. It's been 10 years since Kelly retired. To think that this team will be going into the next off season looking again for their next starting QB just brings to light how far from being real contenders they are. 

790515[/snapback]

I can almost see the bib around your neck.

[DeLuca1967]

Do you think the Bills have a better option for this year?

790516[/snapback]

 

They had the 8th pick in the draft and plenty of cap room. If this team had a GM they may have been able to turn that into a QB.

 

From everything I've read, Cutler looks like the real deal in Denver. Whitner looks good. But I'll take a good QB over a good DB any and every day.

[DeLuca1967]

I can almost see the bib around your neck.

790517[/snapback]

 

Congrats!

 

24,361 posts without anything interesting to say. The streak continues.

 

Yours is my favorite streak in all of sports. That many posts with nothing relevant to say amazes me. How do you do it? Is there a special diet or training regimen you do? Did you have to quit your job to train? Do you have sponsors to pay for the training?

[inkman]

They had the 8th pick in the draft and plenty of cap room. If this team had a GM they may have been able to turn that into a QB.

 

From everything I've read, Cutler looks like the real deal in Denver. Whitner looks good. But I'll take a good QB over a good DB any and every day. 

790522[/snapback]

 

Can we stop with the revisionist history and tell me what they should do for the rest of the year?

[BillnutinHouston]

I believe the overwhelming sentiment of the board is that JP is a talent that needs patience and to be brought along slowly.  There are only a seldom few who don't understand it takes time.

789269[/snapback]

 

Agree, except I'm not sure what a "seldom few" are.

[inkman]

Agree, except I'm not sure what a "seldom few" are.

790527[/snapback]

 

Opposite of the frequent many?

[DeLuca1967]

Can we stop with the revisionist history and tell me what they should do for the rest of the year?

790525[/snapback]

 

If we must.

 

The only option is to run the ball and keep running. Even in short yardage.

 

Also,

 

The coaching staff needs to get a lot smarter. Take points when available. Learn how to use the challenge system. And fire the person who thought is was a good idea to fake a FG in the 1st quarter and to run a bootleg deep in the Jets zone.

 

There are no good options at QB at this point. Losman is not ready/able to be an NFL QB. Holcomb and Nall just suck. You do what the Bears did last season with Orton. You limit his pass attempts and run the ball. I thought that was the game plan going in. But for some reason this coaching doesn't like to take the points when available. The three they passed up against the Pats cost them the game. And the fake FG against the Jets turned the game around and gave the Jets life.

 

Other then that. It's just another season of "Wait till next Year". Without a GM or a QB we may be saying that for a few more years.

[inkman]

Did our non-GM not draft Whitner, Williams, Ellison, Youboty, Simpson and McCargo? All of which have contributed this year.

[DeLuca1967]

Did our non-GM not draft Whitner, Williams, Ellison, Youboty, Simpson and McCargo?  All of which have contributed this year.

790535[/snapback]

 

No. Our faux-Gm had nothing to do with the draft.

 

The Draft was 100% Tom Modrak. Who I would guess, along with the contract guy who's name I can't remember this early, make up what would be the traditional "GM Role". Modrak didn't want the entire job so they split it up and they brought Marv in to do his vaudeville act in front of the media.

[inkman]

No. Our faux-Gm had nothing to do with the draft.

 

The Draft was 100% Tom Modrak. Who I would guess, along with the contract guy who's name I can't remember this early, make up what would be the traditional "GM Role". Modrak didn't want the entire job so they split it up and they brought Marv in to do his vaudeville act in front of the media. 

790540[/snapback]

 

Work for me.

[/dev/null]

Did our non-GM not draft Whitner, Williams, Ellison, Youboty, Simpson and McCargo?  All of which have contributed this year.

790535[/snapback]

 

 

not to nitpick, because i really liked drafting Youboty in the 3rd round, thought it was a steal. but what has youboty contributed this year? per NFL.com AY stats:

 

0 Games

0 Tackles

0 Assists

0 Sacks

0 Int

0 Pass Def

 

btw, he's been inactive all year

[inkman]

 

not to nitpick, because i really liked drafting Youboty in the 3rd round, thought it was a steal.  but what has youboty contributed this year?  per NFL.com AY stats:

 

0 Games

0 Tackles

0 Assists

0 Sacks

0 Int

0 Pass Def

 

btw, he's been inactive all year

790552[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but he's been kicking ass in practice.

[/dev/null]

Yeah, but he's been kicking ass in practice. 

790553[/snapback]

and he prolly helps the morale of the vet players whenever he brings a bucket of chicken and sings the OSU fight song

[inkman]

and he prolly helps the morale of the vet players whenever he brings a bucket of chicken and sings the OSU fight song

790568[/snapback]

 

word

[Kelly the Dog]

They had the 8th pick in the draft and plenty of cap room. If this team had a GM they may have been able to turn that into a QB.

 

From everything I've read, Cutler looks like the real deal in Denver. Whitner looks good. But I'll take a good QB over a good DB any and every day. 

790522[/snapback]

Great quarterbacks are winners and never blow it when the game is on the line. Cutler was 11-35 as a starter in college.

[/dev/null]

The JP Haters need to chill. He's our QB this year AND next. The Free Agent pool is thin at QB, the only starting calibur I can think of is Schaub (who is an RFA and would require compensation to the Falcons). I also don't see the Bills drafting a 1st round QB when this team has more important things to worry about (OL obviously, weak at WR, and the inevitable departures of Nate and Willis). Even if they did draft a 1st round QB he'll either sit a year or if he starts we'll have to accept another 3-13 season.

 

The JP Apologists are going to have a great opportunity to see their boy in action. Just hope he can turn around what has been an otherwise dismal 2+ years

[Gary M]

If we must.

 

There are no good options at QB at this point. Losman is not ready/able to be an NFL QB. Holcomb and Nall just suck. You do what the Bears did last season with Orton. You limit his pass attempts and run the ball. I thought that was the game plan going in. But for some reason this coaching doesn't like to take the points when available. The three they passed up against the Pats cost them the game. And the fake FG against the Jets turned the game around and gave the Jets life.

 

Other then that. It's just another season of "Wait till next Year". Without a GM or a QB we may be saying that for a few more years.

790532[/snapback]

 

How does Losman get ready/able without playing time? You can thank MM for pulling him last year, that really stunted his development.

 

 

J.P. has good stats for a young QB, and you think they should limit his throwing?

Att 79

Comp 48

Yds 575

Comp %60.8

Yds/Att 7.3

TD 2

TD % 2.5

INT 1

INT % 1.3

Long 51

Sack/Lost 8/62

Rating 86.2

 

With a little better protection and decision making they win the Jets game.

[Dan]

And did you say "moxy"? Players with "moxy" don't take sacks in th end zone with the score tied in the fourth quarter. Players with "moxy" don't destroy final drives like Losman did against the Jets.

 

Losman has raw ability that doesn't go much beyond the physical. He may want to be a NFL QB, he may be willing to do all the work he can at it. You either have that NFL QB mentality or you don't. Inkman tried to make some point in a earlier post. He named QB's like Farve and Brees. He named QB's that showed that something special early.

 

Who Inkman didn't name are Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mire and others, who like Losman, had the talent and the arms but didn't have the NFL QB sense they needed  to be solid NFL QB's.   

 

I know it reads like I hate JP Losman. I don't. I never met the guy. I hate the idea of  more time going by without this team finding it's franchise QB. It's been 10 years since Kelly retired. To think that this team will be going into the next off season looking again for their next starting QB just brings to light how far from being real contenders they are. 

 

One big difference between the Mannings, Favres, Brees, et al. and Leaf, Mire, and others (including Losman) - The first set was given time to develop; the second group was not.

 

IMO, the most important thing for a young QB is for him to get on the field and be the starter, with no one in the wings, and a season or 2 to develop. Very few, very few QBs have ever looked good when they were on a team that was inconsisten, then they're given 1 or 2 starts before the #2 guys starts. Pulling a young QB in and out of the is the worst thing a coach can ever do. Not only does it shoot his confidence, but it also shoots the teams confidence in him. Consequently, give Losman a full year or 2 as starter with no looking over his shoulder and then (and only then) will you know if he's an NFL starting QB.

 

To the idiots that say he's never shown anything to prove he's an NFL caliber QB... well, I can only assume you've never actually watched a game of football. Because those statements are completely moronic.

 

Drafting another rookie QB would still mean a minimum of 2-3 years watching him develop before we knew we had a "stud" QB. So, now you want to start the search all over again? Although I suspect if we would have drafted Cutler (for ex) you'd already be screaming for his replacement, because he'd be playing pretty bad with only 3 starts as well.

 

When does it end? Because we'll never find a QB that plays 100% perfect all the time. You actually mean to suggest that great QB's never took a safety or made a bad play? Is Favre is so great that he's never made a bad throw, gotten intercepted, or ever done anything that could possible be construed as a bad play? Let me guess, all those interceptions are receivers running bad routes. Please.

 

Bottomline, Losman has shown that he can play. All he needs is a little time to develop. Only then will we know if he can truly succeed or not.

[Mile High]

One thing that cracks me up about this whole Losman debate is this. People on this board can B word and moan all they want about how Losman isn't NFL ready and how certain qb's on our team might be a better option. It doesn't fuggin matter if you type the sh-- out of this crusade your taking part of. Type away haters. The fact of the matter is it's JP's job and they're going to stick with him for the next couple years. Experience is what JP needs and this coaching staff isn't going to yank him like MM and TD did. So those of you who have spent countless days and nights typing up your anti-Losman novels keep them coming I'm sure Jauron and Levy are taking your opinion to heart.

[Gary M]

One thing that cracks me up about this whole Losman debate is this.  People on this board can B word and moan all they want about how Losman isn't NFL ready and how certain qb's on our team might be a better option.  It doesn't fuggin matter if you type the sh-- out of this crusade your taking part on.  Type away haters.  The fact of the matter is it's JP's job and they're going to stick with him for the next couple years.  Experience is what JP needs and this coaching staff isn't going to yank him like MM and TD did. So those of you who have spent countless days and nights typing up your anti-Losman novels keep them coming I'm sure Jauron and Levy are taking your opinion to heart. 

790611[/snapback]

 

But the competition for tard of the week is going strong.

[Orton's Arm]

One big difference between the Mannings, Favres, Brees, et al. and Leaf, Mire, and others (including Losman) - The first set was given time to develop; the second group was not. 

Leaf was released after three years, by which point it had become abundantly clear he was a bust. The Seahawks held onto Rick Mirer for four years before letting him go. I'm not sure how much more patient you wanted these organizations to have been.

[DeLuca1967]

But the competition for tard of the week is going strong.

790612[/snapback]

 

At least you have goals Good luck with that

[DeLuca1967]

Leaf was released after three years, by which point it had become abundantly clear he was a bust.  The Seahawks held onto Rick Mirer for four years before letting him go.  I'm not sure how much more patient you wanted these organizations to have been.

790665[/snapback]

 

It's funny how so many try to bring other QB's into this. There are many more 1st round QB's that bust then there are 1st rounders that hit. And how long did it take for the dozens of first rounders to become busts. 11 games? 20 games?

 

You can't keep holding on to a QB because some other QB panned out after a number of games. It's like saying since Terrell Davis was a sixth round pick we should only draft RB's in the sixth round.

 

Facts are facts. Losman is getting his chance this year and what has he done.

 

Game 1 - took the safety that lost the game.

Game 2 - 83 yards passing against a bad Miami team.

Game 3 - The final four plays say it all. Game on the line and he wet himself.

 

There is a fine line between faith and kidding yourself