Who was the cancer...

[BoondckCL]

I know there is no true answer here but i find it fun and sometimes interesting to designate a certain player with most of the blame for our losses.

 

I know it is not right to point out any one individual to take the blame for the Bills' record last year, but what player on the starting or rotating roster do you believe contributed the most to Buffalo's struggles?

[Mile High]

Bennie Anderson, Trey Teague, Tom Donahoe, Mike Mularkey and Tom Clements.

[Pyrite Gal]

TD rather than a player. I think in the end it seems clear that he was motivated either conciously or unconciously by wanting most to be sure an HC he hired did not fire him.

 

Once he made the decision to turn last season into a training camp for JP rather than giving the chance their best (even though it was a bad) chance of winning by keeping Bledsoe at QB the rest of the team followed his lead and gave up on getting to the playoffs last season.

 

The team gave JP and TD the benefit of the doubt, but after they saw him win with a so-so performance against a horrendous Texan team, they lost the edge necessary to win games.

 

Even though you asked which player was a cancer who dragged down the others, the disease started with TD and the decision to chop Bledsoe for JP.

[BoondckCL]

Bennie Anderson, Trey Teague, Tom Donahoe, Mike Mularkey and Tom Clements.

740521[/snapback]

 

I'm not 100% sure if you can place blame on Mularkey anymore.

 

THERE! I SAID IT.

 

The main reasoning here is that i think Mularkey is a compitent coach and i believe that - if we get into the administrative and coaching debate - as a coach you ask for certain needs to be filled via the draft and free agency. I don't think that you can place blame on Mularkey mainly because i don't think he was given the guys he needed to run his system.

 

For example, i think this is clear in terms of McNally and the offensive line. I think McNally said "get me some guys and let me work with them". Well, Donahoe then turns to the draft and gives him someone like Mike Williams. Is that McNally's fault, no. It is in no way a reflection of someone's coaching technique or their ability as a coach. Instead the blame should fall on the front office.

 

There is no comment for Tom Clements' terrible play calling.

[Dibs]

I'm not 100% sure if you can place blame on Mularkey anymore.

 

THERE! I SAID IT.

 

The main reasoning here is that i think Mularkey is a compitent coach and i believe that - if we get into the administrative and coaching debate - as a coach you ask for certain needs to be filled via the draft and free agency. I don't think that you can place blame on Mularkey mainly because i don't think he was given the guys he needed to run his system.

 

For example, i think this is clear in terms of McNally and the offensive line. I think McNally said "get me some guys and let me work with them". Well, Donahoe then turns to the draft and gives him someone like Mike Williams. Is that McNally's fault, no. It is in no way a reflection of someone's coaching technique or their ability as a coach. Instead the blame should fall on the front office.

 

There is no comment for Tom Clements' terrible play calling.

740525[/snapback]

Not that it's a big deal but....MW was a Bill before McNally.

It seems to me a huge error MM might be guilty of was to not stand up to TD. I can easily see TD imposing himself into the coaches decisions.

I agree MM might not be as bad as everyone here says but.....as HC last year, he did a terrible job. Over-thinking, second guessing second guesses, very poor play calling, very poor personel decisions, etc, etc.

Maybe in a few years time when given a second go by some team he will do alright....maybe even brilliantly, but his performance last year was a failure.

[Mike32282]

Kelly Holcomb and he still is. That's why he should be cut.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I dont know.

 

Did anyone see Losman get kind of pissed when John Murphy kept asking about last year?? It was on Murphs TV sports show at 7pm.

 

Losman said "DUDE, next question. Stop asking about the past."

 

I thought he was about to pull a Ryan Leaf for a second there.

 

But any way, DUDE, next question. The past is the past.

[Pyrite Gal]

Kelly Holcomb and he still is.  That's why he should be cut. 

740532[/snapback]

 

Let's step back a second and figure out if we are talking about the same definition of a cancer. I think folks may define it differently and thus come up with different names from each other not because they disagree about assessing the player but are talking about different things.

 

I think of a player being a cancer as more of a locker room, and newpaper thing defining attitude that makes the team not a TEAM that pulls for each other and in fact fights against each other.

 

A player may be divisive because the team divides up and chooses sides, but a player becomes a cancer in my mind when he eggs players on or stokes that battle.

 

I actually like watching Doug Flutie play and I do not fault him at all for getting the biggest amount of bucks he can find because unlike those miscreants who stupidly claim that food is being taken out of their obese kids mouths, Flutie has a kid with an incurable disease and every dime he can raise to find a cure or to buy his wife whatever trinkets and baubles she wants to ease her burdens of daily childcar is fine.

 

However, I would say he was a cancer because he had been looked over so many times due to his height and lies like the one Butler told him that he would get a chance to compete for the job only to have it contractually really given to RJ, he stoked the flames of being a cancer and dividing the town and team.

 

I do not count guys such as Bennie Anderson a cancer because who cared about him and everyone agreed he sucked. I would not say Trey Teague was a cancer because he was overmatched at C but he did try hard and thats all you can ask.

 

Moulds come close becaise he should have been a leader of this team and his what about me attitude in the middle of a game really let everyone down so no one came to his defense when he was suspended.

 

I think it hard to label any of the players as a true cancer because actually like fish starting to rot at the head. I think its hard to label anyone as really creating dissension like TD did.

 

Some may dislike the play of a career back-up like Holcomb as a starter, but though I might label him a poor player for choosing to throw a 2 yard pass on 4th and seven, I think he has always said he is comfortable being a back-up and is not creating and supporting team division like a cancer does.

[Buftex]

 

Some may dislike the play of a career back-up like Holcomb as a starter, but though I might label him a poor player for choosing to throw a 2 yard pass on 4th and seven, I think he has always said he is comfortable being a back-up and is not creating and supporting team division like a cancer does.

740536[/snapback]

 

 

First, let me start by making it perfectly clear, I like Kelly Holcomb...he is what he is...capable of playing very good, or very bad on any given Sunday, like a lot of NFL QB's. I hate the fact that so many fans start, very vocally, hating a player, whose only crime is that he is not as good as someone else they like better.

 

It happened with Travis Henry (most really liked him, until Willis McGahee, who had proven nothing in the NFL at that point, came along) most recently, and now it appears Holcomb is the whipping boy to a lot of Bills fans. They hate him, because, to put it bluntly, JP Losman, their designated superstar, was flat out awful. Holcomb was better, but not so much better, as to make a difference in the outcome of the season. You can make all the tired points about Losman not getting a fair shot, yadda yadda yadda...some of them are valid...but none of them are Holcomb's doing....

 

All that being said, I recently spoke with a Clevland Browns fanatic. He told me that there was a perception, amongst many Browns fans, that Holcomb was a bit of a passive agressive trouble maker when he was in the Clevland QB musical chairs game with Tim Couch...they seem to feel that behind the scenes, he (Holcomb) was one to put more effort into rallying his teammates around him, rather than give support to Couch, as he was supposed to be doing.

 

In some ways, what he described, sounded reminiscnet of the Johson/Flutie years in Buffalo, with Holcomb playing the Flutie roll. I am not sure that is what is happening in Buffalo now, but I was struck, a number of times last year, at how little a repore JP and Holcomb seemed to have on the sidelines. I know, I am just wathcing on tv, so I don't see near all that goes on, but usually, during the course of a game, you see the obligatory sideline shot of the QBs talking, or gathered around the coach...I really don't recall seeing much of that in 2005. Not sure why. Both guys seem likeable to me.

[Dibs]

.....I hate the fact that so many fans start, very vocally, hating a player, whose only crime is that he is not as good as someone else they like better.....

740539[/snapback]

Isn't it great. I love it though, when you defend said player for being unfairly criticized, and are abused for it. Even better is when it is then assumed you like the defamed player better than his counterpart....which you don't....you just don't think hating a guy for not being great is the way to go.

[generaLee83]

I dont know.

 

Did anyone see Losman get kind of pissed when John Murphy kept asking about last year??  It was on Murphs TV sports show at 7pm.

 

Losman said "DUDE, next question.  Stop asking about the past."

 

I thought he was about to pull a Ryan Leaf for a second there.

 

But any way, DUDE, next question.  The past is the past.

740534[/snapback]

 

I can't blame Losman for wanting to move past questions about last year.

Last year is done and over with, there is no changing any of it.

[generaLee83]

I think it was that pesky "lung" that was always hanging around the locker room smoking.

[Alaska Darin]

All that being said, I recently spoke with a Clevland Browns fanatic.  He told me that there was a perception, amongst many Browns fans, that Holcomb was a bit of a passive agressive trouble maker when he was in the Clevland QB musical chairs game with Tim Couch...they seem to feel that behind the scenes, he (Holcomb) was one to put more effort into rallying his teammates around him, rather than give support to Couch, as he was supposed to be doing. 

740539[/snapback]

I doubt that's true, since Couch and Holcomb were (and still are) best friends. Would you be best friends with a guy who was pulling that crap (don't answer that question if you're a woman)?

[Mickey]

First, let me start by making it perfectly clear, I like Kelly Holcomb...he is what he is...capable of playing very good, or very bad on any given Sunday, like a lot of NFL QB's.  I hate the fact that so many fans start, very vocally, hating a player, whose only crime is that he is not as good as someone else they like better. 

 

It happened with Travis Henry (most really liked him, until Willis McGahee, who had proven nothing in the NFL at that point, came along) most recently, and now it appears Holcomb is the whipping boy to a lot of Bills fans.  They hate him, because, to put it bluntly, JP Losman, their designated superstar, was flat out awful.  Holcomb was better, but not so much better, as to make a difference in the outcome of the season.  You can make all the tired points about Losman not getting a fair shot, yadda yadda yadda...some of them are valid...but none of them are Holcomb's doing....

 

All that being said, I recently spoke with a Clevland Browns fanatic.  He told me that there was a perception, amongst many Browns fans, that Holcomb was a bit of a passive agressive trouble maker when he was in the Clevland QB musical chairs game with Tim Couch...they seem to feel that behind the scenes, he (Holcomb) was one to put more effort into rallying his teammates around him, rather than give support to Couch, as he was supposed to be doing. 

 

In some ways, what he described, sounded reminiscnet of the Johson/Flutie years in Buffalo, with Holcomb playing the Flutie roll.  I am not sure that is what is happening in Buffalo now, but I was struck, a number of times last year, at how little a repore JP and Holcomb seemed to have on the sidelines.  I know, I am just wathcing on tv, so I don't see near all that goes on, but usually, during the course of a game, you see the obligatory sideline shot of the QBs talking, or gathered around the coach...I really don't recall seeing much of that in 2005.  Not sure why.  Both guys seem likeable to me.

740539[/snapback]

Good point. We learned, mostly after the whole Flutie/Johnson thing was over, that Doug wasn't the sweetheart in the locker room that he was in public. No idea if that is the case with Holcomb but you know, he does have the PR thing down pat, says all the right things, all the tired cliches. JP, for good or bad, does seem to wear his heart on his sleeve. In that sense, I get the feeling that the JP we see in public is probably closer to the "real JP" than is the case with Holcomb.

[RickW]

I know there is no true answer here but i find it fun and sometimes interesting to designate a certain player with most of the blame for our losses.

 

I know it is not right to point out any one individual to take the blame for the Bills' record last year, but what player on the starting or rotating roster do you believe contributed the most to Buffalo's struggles?

740520[/snapback]

 

I can't say anything about those on the roster because there is no way to be sure why things occur unless you are there in person. I do think that a percentage of the fans are a cancer for the team though. Unrealistic expectations in the short-term put too much pressure on the head office and create a poor climate for developing a solid team. God, the rookie quarterback has barely played and people are calling for his replacement.

[Mike32282]

Good point.  We learned, mostly after the whole Flutie/Johnson thing was over, that Doug wasn't the sweetheart in the locker room that he was in public.  No idea if that is the case with Holcomb but you know, he does have the PR thing down pat, says all the right things, all the tired cliches.  JP, for good or bad, does seem to wear his heart on his sleeve.  In that sense, I get the feeling that the JP we see in public is probably closer to the "real JP" than is the case with Holcomb.

740563[/snapback]

 

Exactly! I have heard the same thing from some Browns fans that I know. The problem with Kelly Holcomb is that he is not comfortable with being the backup. And he believes that no matter what, he should be the starter. He's the one who got Moulds and some other vets to speak up for him. And Mularkey didn't have the balls to shut them up.

[todd]

Jerry Gray. He deliberately antagonized other offensive and defensive coaches, including mularkey.

[5 Wide]

I can't say anything about those on the roster because there is no way to be sure why things occur unless you are there in person. I do think that a percentage of the fans are a cancer for the team though. Unrealistic expectations in the short-term put too much pressure on the head office and create a poor climate for developing a solid team.  God, the rookie quarterback has barely played and people are calling for his replacement.

740564[/snapback]

 

No ones calling for the 3rd year quarterbacks replacement. People just want to see what he is before we decide to anoint him or scrap him. To say that the fans are a cancer is incredibly off base. It is the National Football League, a multi-billion dollar industry. It's the big leagues so you put up or you fade away. Unrealistic expectations are not something the players pay attention too. They didn't make it to the apex of professional sports because they cared about what a pre-season ranking looked like or how Average Guy thought they should win it all.

 

..... with that being said, the cancer was Dorenbos, no doubt!

[H2o]

The whole coaching staff for creating the contoversy starting in training camp last year by not even having a competition for the starting QB job. That split our whole locker room from day one.

[Drewgetz]

IMO TD is def the start of the cancerous blob that spread out as time went on, inflicting MM with his horrendous play calling and personnel mgmt. It still burns my A** he pushed Rusty Jones out, he was the best in the business and all he wanted to do was what he new best but MM decided to "promote" him and bring in his own guy. but I digress... from there the cancer spread to the extremities causing Moulds and big Sam to question leadership, and that is a tear in the fabric of what it means to be a team that is not easily mended.

 

Who was the biggest cancer last year...as a player? I would have to say Moulds. His attitude in the end was very disappointing and not the consummate professional we all grew to know and love. I don't see me ever wearing his jersey again, I'm going back to my ol' reliable; Bryce Paup. "Paup 'em!"

 

PS. I second no comment on Clements

[Pyrite Gal]

  The problem with Kelly Holcomb is that he is not comfortable with being the backup.  And he believes that no matter what, he should be the starter.  He's the one who got Moulds and some other vets to speak up for him.  And Mularkey didn't have the balls to shut them up.

740571[/snapback]

 

This is exactly the type of stuff that people need to know to credibly make the claim that olcomb is in fact a cancer. Since if one could not provide evidence of these occurences which you obviously can or your thought would be nothing more than the usual fact-free opinion and blather then you can be the source for the quotes and objective evidence of Holcomb's perfidy.

 

I look forward to you providing this objective evidence so I can join you in heaping blame on Holcomb for being a cancer.

 

It will be great when you guide us to this objective evidence since afterall if you can't provide it then the appropriate response to the contention that Holcomb is a cancer is simply laughter.

[eball]

Kelly Holcomb and he still is.  That's why he should be cut. 

740532[/snapback]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

(Hey, I'm only doing what Pyrite Gal suggested.)

[Cobra]

Eric Moulds

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

#1. Sam Adams. He started to go that way in '04 until Mularkey benched him. last year he went for the Full Monty. He malingered all year rather than be a positive veteran leader he was the opposite.

 

#2. Mike Williams. Same deal, his attitude was crap, he was one of the supposed leaders of the offense and his lackadaisical attitude rubbed off on others.

 

People who don't care are just as bad, or worse, than those who mouth off. I wouldn't ever say Moulds because he played his ass off at the end of the year when it meant nothing.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

miscreants

740536[/snapback]

That's your word today isn't it. I've seen it in two different posts. Nothing like a little malfeasance to cast asunder the efforts of the righteous.

[R. Rich]

JoeSixPack

[CosmicBills]

I'm not 100% sure if you can place blame on Mularkey anymore.

 

THERE! I SAID IT.

 

The main reasoning here is that i think Mularkey is a compitent coach and i believe that - if we get into the administrative and coaching debate - as a coach you ask for certain needs to be filled via the draft and free agency. I don't think that you can place blame on Mularkey mainly because i don't think he was given the guys he needed to run his system.

 

For example, i think this is clear in terms of McNally and the offensive line. I think McNally said "get me some guys and let me work with them". Well, Donahoe then turns to the draft and gives him someone like Mike Williams. Is that McNally's fault, no. It is in no way a reflection of someone's coaching technique or their ability as a coach. Instead the blame should fall on the front office.

 

There is no comment for Tom Clements' terrible play calling.

740525[/snapback]

 

Umm...MM took away Clements play calling early in the season and only gave it back partially towards the end.

 

So that "terrible" play calling was the result of the "compitent coaching ability" of MM.

[TigerJ]

Just one vote for Eric Moulds? I'll add a second. He was the most vocal, aggitating for Holcomb to start. He's always had a selfhish streak. Not as bad as TO, but when he's not getting the ball, he starts complaining. He likes the label of "team leader," but deep down he's very much a "me guy."

[tennesseeboy]

Got to be MM. Many others caused trouble when MM lost control of the team and the coaches, but MM should have maintained control. He was indcecisive, vacillating and more and more isolated as the year progressed. I gotta give him the trophy, even though a lot of people would compete for runner up.

[Cobra]

Just one vote for Eric Moulds?  I'll add a second.  He was the most vocal, aggitating for Holcomb to start.  He's always had a selfhish streak.  Not as bad as TO, but when he's not getting the ball, he starts complaining.  He likes the label of "team leader," but deep down he's very much a "me guy."

740739[/snapback]

 

I think he got it from his buddy Doug Flutie!

[Dennis in NC]

The whole coaching staff for creating the contoversy starting in training camp last year by not even having a competition for the starting QB job. That split our whole locker room from day one.

740609[/snapback]

We have a BINGO!

 

To say that JP sucked last season is to simply ignore the fact that the front ofc and coaches put him in a position to fail - right from the start.

[bluenews]

Eric Moulds

740649[/snapback]

 

Eric Moulds has been holding back a talented WR corp for many years. I am looking forward to seeing this group shine this year!!!

 

Deep in the heart of Texas is a disgruntled Eric Meould!!!

[BoondckCL]

I wouldn't go as far as to say Moulds was the cancer of our team seeing as there is still some doubt of how our offense will produce.

 

I think the real cancer of the Bills 2005 team was Trey Teague.

[Swift Sylvan]

Coy Wire

[BoondckCL]

Coy Wire

741020[/snapback]

 

I think that is a new record people, it took 34 posts before someone mentioned Coy Wire as being a serious cancer on this team.

[Swift Sylvan]

I think that is a new record people, it took 34 posts before someone mentioned Coy Wire as being a serious cancer on this team.

741022[/snapback]

 

I know it's cliche, but I'm still new, this is my first time being the first one getting to blame him on a thread.

[Adam]

I know there is no true answer here but i find it fun and sometimes interesting to designate a certain player with most of the blame for our losses.

 

I know it is not right to point out any one individual to take the blame for the Bills' record last year, but what player on the starting or rotating roster do you believe contributed the most to Buffalo's struggles?

740520[/snapback]

It was that idiot kicker...no, wait, that was the colts!

[Buftex]

I doubt that's true, since Couch and Holcomb were (and still are) best friends.  Would you be best friends with a guy who was pulling that crap (don't answer that question if you're a woman)?

740562[/snapback]

 

 

Oh man, spend a day working where I do...people carry on here like they are the best of friends, put on presentations kissing eachothers' asses, so sick, you can't bare it....when push comes to shove though, they are all, for the most part, back-stabbing eachother at any opportunity they can, where it will be beneficial to themselves.

 

I am not saying I know that this is what is happening in Buffalo, with the Bills QB's, I am just saying that is what I heard from an avid Clevland Browns fanatic. I also remember, when the Bills obtained Holcomb, hearing something similar...

 

IMO, it is very possible that there is always going to be a little of this, when two people are competing for the same job. It is only human nature, and is probably even more pronounced in something as competitive as athletics.

 

I think that Holcomb is likely more of a professional, and a bit more mature than Flutie might have been, back in 1998...but I don't doubt that he really wants, and thinks he deserves, the starting QB role with the Bills.

[/dev/null]

Tom Donahoe was brain cancer

Eric Moulds was mouth cancer

Bennie Anderson was ass cancer

Mularkey was heart cancer

[bluenews]

Tom Donahoe was brain cancer

Eric Moulds was mouth cancer

Bennie Anderson was ass cancer

Mularkey was heart cancer

741138[/snapback]

 

Mike Williams would have been diagnosed with testicular cancer, if he had any!!!