Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I say it's not good. Ralph is getting old and he looks like he could kick the bucket soon. I'm not sure if he has a plan to keep the Bills in NY. I'm worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Ralph may be starting to get a bit slower upstairs (as what usually happens with people his age) but he is in pretty damn good physical shape for someone who is almost 90. i could see him living well into his 90's, although not running the Bills. I think he is getting ready to starting talking sale of the team before he goes so he knows his team is in good shape. I think that is why he went to Pataki the other day, start getting interests in his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonz Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Why stress about it? Enjoy them while we have them, continue to support them, and pray they don't leave. Ultimately the Bills fate will be decided by people who have more money than all of us put together multiplied by a 1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It would be idiotic for the NFL to allow the Bills to move. We fill up the stadium even when the team is bad. The NFL would really be selling out if it allowed the team to move from Buffalo. I do not think that there is a team with a more passionate fan base. Â It really is better off just adding a team to LA and making the new ownership pay the franchise fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalfan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It would be idiotic for the NFL to allow the Bills to move. We fill up the stadium even when the team is bad. The NFL would really be selling out if it allowed the team to move from Buffalo. I do not think that there is a team with a more passionate fan base. It really is better off just adding a team to LA and making the new ownership pay the franchise fee. 652516[/snapback]   Why? LA didn't support the Rams when they were there....and they didn't support the Raiders when they were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Why? LA didn't support the Rams when they were there....and they didn't support the Raiders when they were there. 652522[/snapback]  I agree with you. Yet, the NFL seems intent on placing a team there. My post presumes that to be the case. Given that, it would be idiotic to move the Bills to LA because of the fan support in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Why? LA didn't support the Rams when they were there....and they didn't support the Raiders when they were there. 652522[/snapback]  The problem was the Stadium. The Los Angeles metro area has about about five people for every man, woman, and child in the combined Buffalo-Rochester area. Even if you toss in Southern Ontario, the Los Angeles area is more than twice our size.  With a decent Stadium situation, a team in the Los Angeles market would simply be a cash cow. Think of it this way - Buffalo will never be one of the "high revenue" franchises; a team in Los Angeles with a modern stadium almost certainly would be.  JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I've got my positive hat on. Â Oh, let's say 0.1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 The problem was the Stadium.  The Los Angeles metro area has about about five people for every man, woman, and child in the combined Buffalo-Rochester area.  Even if you toss in Southern Ontario, the Los Angeles area is more than twice our size.  With a decent Stadium situation, a team in the Los Angeles market would simply be a cash cow.  Think of it this way - Buffalo will never be one of the "high revenue" franchises; a team in Los Angeles with a modern stadium almost certainly would be.  JDG 652560[/snapback] LA is about 7 times the size of Buffalo and Rochester combined. It is twice the size even if you include southern ontario -Toronto included. But that is not the issue really--since it is hard to get an area that huge and spread out to focus on one team.It may be TOO big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It would be idiotic for the NFL to allow the Bills to move. We fill up the stadium even when the team is bad. 652516[/snapback] Ummmm...I seem to recall the last time we were 3-13. Half the stdium was empty! The fan support thing is a myth! KC, Green Bay, that's where stadiums are always full. Not Buffalo. Sorry, it's the truth.  PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Ummmm...I seem to recall the last time we were 3-13. Half the stdium was empty! The fan support thing is a myth! KC, Green Bay, that's where stadiums are always full. Not Buffalo. Sorry, it's the truth. PTR 652597[/snapback]  We were pathetic this past year. Yet, the attendance was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I normally try to avoid these "Bills are leaving Buffalo" conversations, because, frankly, it depresses the sh-- out of me. The Bills have been "leaving Buffalo" for most of my life...I never worried about it, because I knew that if they would just win more games than they lose, everything would be fine...now, the Bills appear to be hitting rock-bottom on the field, and the owner (both a hero and a cheap bastard in one breath) is getting very old. It would be silly to think that it couldn't happen. Big business sports, and especially the NFL, are pretty cold sharks... Â I am putting a lot of hope that Tom Golisano appears on the Bills scene. God love Ralph, but why not gauge the interest of someone like Golisano. If he is interested in one day owning the Bills, why not let him be a minority owner, with Ralph, until he passes away. Ralph wouldn't have to stress out over money so much, the Bills could get the infusion of excitement in the front office that I think Golasano could provide, and maybe they could win a friggin' leauge championship. Didn't Art Modell have a similar arraingement in Baltimore? It worked for him.... Â When Golisano purchased the Sabres, I remember listening to his press conference. I was really impressed by him. He wasn't even a major hockey fan, but he realized the importance that the Sabres, and Bills played in WNY, and was keenly aware that investing in the Sabres, was a good investment for all of his other business interests in WNY. It is true, he is a businessman, and he likely wouldn't throw good money after bad, if it was apparent he was going to lose. But his entreachment in WNY would be, IMO, very good for Buffalo and the Bills future there. Â I have heard, off the record, that Golisano would be very interested in owning the Bills. He won't say anything publicly, out of respect for Ralph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 From the sounds of it, and with the effect that he's talking to people who have no future in any of the negotiations. Whether that something is if he's going to sell or move the franchise or if he wants a big input of public monies down the road, and then whether it happens next week or 10 years from now is anyone's guess. But he's officially put everyone on notice that something's up. Â It's an old tactic to hint at something before you really say it, so as not to surprise anyone and be the evil owner who moved in the middle of the night ('course, he still would be to most of us). This story of him saying that it's not looking well for the NFL in Buffalo is catalogued in our heads and in the newspapers' morgues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It depends on the window of time were dealing with. Within the next decade we have the stadium lease issue, and we need to find an owner dedicated to keeping this team in Western New York. I think those two obstacles are things we can overcome, and I expect the Bills to do just that. Past the next decade is what concerns me the most. Many people on the board will be alive 20-50 years from now (God forbid anything happens). 20-50 years is a LONG time, and being Bills fans most of us will remain Bills fans threw out our lives. I think the probability of the Bills moving at some point during that time frame is higher then them staying, and it will only increase as time passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It's silly to worry about things you can't control. I have friends who have been telling me for 15 years that the Bills will be leaving within a year. Their logic is based on absolutely nothing outside of their own personal unhappiness and cynical attitude towards everything. Naturally, they don't buy tickets and would only go if you gave them a freebie. Â The Bills have a cheap out every year with the current lease and could leave anytime. And yet, here they are. Â Ralph will pass on in the next few years and maybe Tom Golisano or another person of wealth, with WNY loyalty, will buy the Bills try and keep the team here. Â If they leave, then I watch more college games on Saturday and play with the family more on Sunday. Â Life goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Â Life goes on. 652643[/snapback] Â Â I don't think people will view things in that way. The area will be just another Toledo, Tulsa or Hartford. The one thing Buffalo has over cities its size IS a team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 JIM KELLY (and Team) TO THE RESCUE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Jarhead Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It pains me to say this, but it looks like Ralph is really trying to prep the ground for either a move or a sale of the team. Â The unfortunate reality is one way or another, the team will probably not be in Buffalo too much longer. When you stop and take an honest look at the economic realities, Buffalo is a small market that is getting smaller all the time, while the NFL is an economic giant that keeps getting bigger. Plus, we all know how Ralph feels about the new CBA and it's negative impact on small market teams. Somethings gotta give. People need to wake up to this reality. Â I don't like it one bit, but it's like a sick relative who you know won't be around too much longer. I'm going to simply appreciate and enjoy the team while it's still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Why? LA didn't support the Rams when they were there....and they didn't support the Raiders when they were there. 652522[/snapback] Yes, but LA is a top 5 media market which has value to the TV folks in terms of revenue, which directly affects the NFL in the $ value of the TV contract. The Sirius contract too, I would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 We fill up the stadium even when the team is bad. 652516[/snapback] This is rather inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It's silly to worry about things you can't control. I have friends who have been telling me for 15 years that the Bills will be leaving within a year. Their logic is based on absolutely nothing outside of their own personal unhappiness and cynical attitude towards everything. Naturally, they don't buy tickets and would only go if you gave them a freebie.  The Bills have a cheap out every year with the current lease and could leave anytime. And yet, here they are.  Ralph will pass on in the next few years and maybe Tom Golisano or another person of wealth, with WNY loyalty, will buy the Bills try and keep the team here.  If they leave, then I watch more college games on Saturday and play with the family more on Sunday.  Life goes on. 652643[/snapback] You're just shy of 16,000 posts. I'm guessing that if the Bills leave, you'll be a bit less indifferent should we lose our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 Ummmm...I seem to recall the last time we were 3-13. Half the stdium was empty! The fan support thing is a myth! KC, Green Bay, that's where stadiums are always full. Not Buffalo. Sorry, it's the truth. PTR 652597[/snapback]  That's true. It doesn't seem like this team has much more to give to the fans of WNY. There are 3 sceneraios I see here:  1) Ralph dies and the Bills will move to Los Angeles, San Antonio, or just north from where they are now and move to Canada.  2) Ralph dies and Pataki will help pay to keep the Bills in Buffalo.  3) Ralph dies and the fans raise enough money to help pay for the Bills expensures and the Bills stay in Buffalo.  Either or, if the Bills do move the next question will be to the fans of western NY, will we continue to support the team where ever they might go? I say undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I do not think the NFL gives a damn about Buffalo. As soon as it can, it will move the Bills to L.A. or Toronto. Â Really, give me one reason why moving the Bills to a larger market isn't a good idea for just about every other owner in the league. I cannot think of any. Â The one thing we have going for us is the fact that Cleveland got a new franchise after the original Browns were moved away. But I am not sure that is turning out well for the NFL, and they will take that into consideration. As a matter of a fact, the existence of the Browns is a detriment to the Bills' chances of staying in Buffalo. The league will assume, and maybe correctly so, that the fans who don't throw their support behind the team in its new city will instead become Browns fans because of Cleveland's proximity to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 LA is about 7 times the size of Buffalo and Rochester combined. It is twice the size even if you include southern ontario -Toronto included.But that is not the issue really--since it is hard to get an area that huge and spread out to focus on one team.It may be TOO big. 652577[/snapback]  Well, New York is even bigger, and seems to do just fine with not one, but two teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Why stress about it? Enjoy them while we have them, continue to support them, and pray they don't leave. Ultimately the Bills fate will be decided by people who have more money than all of us put together multiplied by a 1000 652514[/snapback] You mean the Seneca's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I agree with you. Yet, the NFL seems intent on placing a team there. My post presumes that to be the case. Given that, it would be idiotic to move the Bills to LA because of the fan support in Buffalo. 652525[/snapback]   The NFL is only using the threat of moving a team to LA as an extortionist tool to extract new stadiums for teams that want them.  Ralph is finally going to join the other other owners in getting that free handout.  Unfortunately, even if a new stadium is built with fancy luxury boxes, there art not enough corporate dollars in WNY to purchase the boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 This is rather inaccurate. 652660[/snapback] Â The team was horrible this past year. Attendance, on the other hand was very good. Although we had the ninth worst record in the league, we were ninth in attendance. That is pretty darn good given how pathetic the team was. Â Bills rank ninth in attendance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I normally try to avoid these "Bills are leaving Buffalo" conversations, because, frankly, it depresses the sh-- out of me. The Bills have been "leaving Buffalo" for most of my life...I never worried about it, because I knew that if they would just win more games than they lose, everything would be fine...now, the Bills appear to be hitting rock-bottom on the field, and the owner (both a hero and a cheap bastard in one breath) is getting very old. It would be silly to think that it couldn't happen. Big business sports, and especially the NFL, are pretty cold sharks... I am putting a lot of hope that Tom Golisano appears on the Bills scene. God love Ralph, but why not gauge the interest of someone like Golisano. If he is interested in one day owning the Bills, why not let him be a minority owner, with Ralph, until he passes away. Ralph wouldn't have to stress out over money so much, the Bills could get the infusion of excitement in the front office that I think Golasano could provide, and maybe they could win a friggin' leauge championship. Didn't Art Modell have a similar arraingement in Baltimore? It worked for him....  When Golisano purchased the Sabres, I remember listening to his press conference. I was really impressed by him. He wasn't even a major hockey fan, but he realized the importance that the Sabres, and Bills played in WNY, and was keenly aware that investing in the Sabres, was a good investment for all of his other business interests in WNY. It is true, he is a businessman, and he likely wouldn't throw good money after bad, if it was apparent he was going to lose. But his entreachment in WNY would be, IMO, very good for Buffalo and the Bills future there.  I have heard, off the record, that Golisano would be very interested in owning the Bills. He won't say anything publicly, out of respect for Ralph. 652611[/snapback]  Assuming Golisano buys the Bills, what revenue streams is going to be able to add to provide the additional cash flow (afdter paying the debt service on his purchase price) to keep the Bills competitive with the large market teams?  Even with a new stadium, there is not a business core in WNY that will guarantee that the new luxury boxes will be fully occupied at NFL market rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a player to be named later Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Even with a new stadium, there is not a business core in WNY that will guarantee that the new luxury boxes will be fully occupied at NFL market rates. 652855[/snapback] Â Â That is the key. I think the Bills will stay in Buffalo, however, we could sell out every game but when other teams have ticket prices that are way more expesive and lease LUX boxes and Lux seat areas for thousands more than we can pay. Â Ask Dan Synder, or the Murtha family how much they charge and how easy it is to fill their luxery boxes. Then talk to Ralph... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhead Bill Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Anybody interested in helping me put together a grass roots effort to purchase the team through a share offering.....much like the Packers???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Why? LA didn't support the Rams when they were there....and they didn't support the Raiders when they were there. 652522[/snapback] [/quo  Great point. LA does not deserve a blue collared team like the Bills, and it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 JIM KELLY (and Team) TO THE RESCUE!! 652652[/snapback] Â Kelly doesnt have the dough, nor the investors to back it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Anybody interested in helping me put together a grass roots effort to purchase the team through a share offering.....much like the Packers???? 652874[/snapback] The NFL no longer allows public ownership (Packers are the exception). I'm not sure if it's to avoid public scrutiny or to keep it a rich boys club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 ralph just getting the ground work going for a new stadium in a few years . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Unless the NFL can find a better compromise between it's large and small market owners, the value of small market francises will decrease. More revenue has to be siphoned off to support these clubs. An NFL that could care less about Ralph's legacy and his personal wealth has to attain a sense of responsibility toward the area that has supported the franchise for 50 years. Â Ralph's visit to Albany was a first step in enlisting the help of powerful politicians that may influence the league's point of view. Taking advantage of Gov. Pataki's GOP allies, including Condeleeza Rice (possibly the next NFL commissioner), might be the type of tactic that brings pressure on the league to accept that responsibility. Â Until the NFL establishes an environment that allows small market teams to thrive in their current locations, a prospective buyer would be better off purchasing $700M worth of US Savings Bonds. He'll see a quicker return on his investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 the word "riot" comes to mind. Â that would be like taking the packers out of greenbay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinuch Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 If the Bills do leave I believe that the city of Buffalo and its people will pull a Cleveland trick and have a new team in Buffalo with two to three years of them leaving. In those years we can make the trip over to Cleveland and watch the Browns till Buffalo gets its team back, Just like the dogpound did when they didn't have a team. Thats just my opion. Late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 If the Bills do leave I believe that the city of Buffalo and its people will pull a Cleveland trick and have a new team in Buffalo with two to three years of them leaving. In those years we can make the trip over to Cleveland and watch the Browns till Buffalo gets its team back, Just like the dogpound did when they didn't have a team. Thats just my opion. Late. 652939[/snapback] What percisely is a Cleveland trick? What did that city do to make it happen?  Again, can anyone give me one serious reason other NFL owners would want the Bills to stay in Buffalo versus moving to a larger, richer city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Maybe Ralph is going to sell the Bills in a year or 2 and then use the money to build a stadium Downtown to make sure the Bills stay in Buffalo for a while. He works out an agreement on the lease with the new owner keeping the team in Buffalo. He leaves his legacy in Buffalo with a new stadium downtown on the waterfront (the house that Ralph built) and makes sure his team will stay here for years to come (or atleast til I'm dead, then they can move whereever they want cause I couldn't care anymore, LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 What percisely is a Cleveland trick? What did that city do to make it happen? Again, can anyone give me one serious reason other NFL owners would want the Bills to stay in Buffalo versus moving to a larger, richer city? 652975[/snapback]  Several days ago, a poster noted that the owners get to divvy up the couple of hundred million from the fees that a new franchise pays, wheras they get nothing when a club moves.  He made a goot point, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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