PromoTheRobot Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 TD should have done more to address our O and D-lines in years past, but let's be fair. Calling him dumb for drafting Mike Williams (as Sully does in today's column)is disingenuous. MW and Brian McKinnie were considered the stud can't-miss O-line picks in that draft. The only argument was which one to draft. Turns out neither player reached their potential. No GM has a crystal ball. If a good player decides to be a fat load after he signs his big contract, there isn't anything you can do, other than cut him. And even then you have to give them a few years to prove they're totally worthless. Sorry...I won't pin the MW pick on TD. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Thank you. This needs to be an established rule around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCDAWG Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I concur. If he turns out to be a great guard that would be ok too. But I think it is not about how bad MW has played as it is a combination of Peters holding his own and benny stinking up the joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I'm with you. McKinnie and Williams were the two linemen discussed at the top of that draft. I'm not interested in any spin that is bound to follow to the contrary. Every GM needing a lineman would have went with either of the two if they had a pick that high. No one can prove otherwise. Addendum: Anyone using the "lower picked linemen have turned out better" spin? No, sorry, not listening. Those other linemen would not have been picked if McKinnie and/or Williams were available to them. Addendum#2: Anyone claiming a DT or DE would have been better? Again, no, sorry, not listening to that. OL was needed at the time, and sad to say, still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I never liked the Mike Williams pick at #4. I had hoped they would trade down, because they were so bad that one player could not possibly have made that big a difference. There are very few linemen chosen that high these days that can make an immediate impact. As I recall, McKinnie was alleged to have attitude problems, and his lengthy holdout seemed to support that theory. But, when you choose a guy that high in the draft, you expect that he will become a Pro Bowl calibre player. Williams has been mediocre to good, and I thought McNally would get him on a roll. Injuries have not helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 A GM has to be judged by how his moves turn out, not what you thought of them at the time. See the why do people hate TD thread. As for Sully, it called sunken costs. It doesn't matter what pick was used on Big Mike at the time. The only thing that matters it what is best for the Bills now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 No GM has a crystal ball. If a good player decides to be a fat load after he signs his big contract, there isn't anything you can do, other than cut him. And even then you have to give them a few years to prove they're totally worthless. Sorry...I won't pin the MW pick on TD. PTR 497854[/snapback] Also having a roulette at the QB position and the OL coach position doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 TD should have done more to address our O and D-lines in years past, but let's be fair. Calling him dumb for drafting Mike Williams (as Sully does in today's column)is disingenuous. MW and Brian McKinnie were considered the stud can't-miss O-line picks in that draft. The only argument was which one to draft. Turns out neither player reached their potential. No GM has a crystal ball. If a good player decides to be a fat load after he signs his big contract, there isn't anything you can do, other than cut him. And even then you have to give them a few years to prove they're totally worthless. Sorry...I won't pin the MW pick on TD. PTR 497854[/snapback] great points... we also need ot add these as well.. 1. As #4 overall pick, we had NO CHOICE how much to pay mike williams. Sure his play is not meeting his salary, but contrary to belief, we didnt not OVERPAY for MW. 2. To those people that beat the dead "trade down" horse...YOU MUST HAVE A TEAM THAT WANTS TO TRADE UP INTO YOUR SPOT TO DO SO!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 Also having a roulette at the QB position and the OL coach position doesn'thelp. 497878[/snapback] I'm not defending all of TD's moves. It's just not fair to pin Mike Williams on him, like Jerry Sullivan is doing. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 TD should have done more to address our O and D-lines in years past, but let's be fair. Calling him dumb for drafting Mike Williams (as Sully does in today's column)is disingenuous. 497854[/snapback] I can vividly remember reading a column by Jerry Sullivan during that season about how important it was for the Bills to tank so they could draft Bryant McKinnie (or Mike Williams if BM was gone). So it must be nice to throw your opinion around every day and later contradict yourself to bash someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I'm not defending all of TD's moves. It's just not fair to pin Mike Williams on him, like Jerry Sullivan is doing. PTR 497940[/snapback] I am with you on this promo. Now, I am fed up with ole whitey, but not cause of this pick. I was really ticked at the WM pick, but just recently went back and looked at the next 30 picks, and only guy that maybe would have been a better pick was William Joseph( I do not know, as do not watch the Gints much) I do think he whiffed on some O line talent this year, most notably Elton Brown out of UVA. Could have stolen that dude in the third round(went in the 4th), hes starting now in Arizona, and getting better by the minute according to what I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I'm not defending all of TD's moves. It's just not fair to pin Mike Williams on him, like Jerry Sullivan is doing. PTR 497940[/snapback] It is absolutely fair to pin the pick on TD. He made the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ektin Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Absolutely. The 2002 draft was a weak draft. If TD was an idiot to pick Big Mike then half of the GM's that year were idiots for their picks. Of the top 10 picks only Peppers and Roy Williams are studs and Dallas took alot of heat for drafting a safety that early. TD's other options? McKinnie, not much different than Mike. Jammer? Bills had Winfield and Clements. Simms or Henderson? Freeney turned out great but 10 teams passed on him because he was undersized. Sucks to have a high pick in a weak draft. That's why I always laugh when they talk about the biggest draft busts and mention Walt Patulski. Take a look at the 72 draft. Franco Harris at the 13th overall pick was the only HOFer in the 1st round. Hell, the Bills at one time or another had 5 of the players taken in the 1st round including 3 out of the first 4. (Patulski 1st, Sherman White 2nd, Bobby Moore (Ahmad Rashad) 4th, Jeff Kinney 23rd and Mike Kadish 25th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Sorry...I won't pin the MW pick on TD. PTR 497854[/snapback] Neither will I. Now excuse me (not that many will mind) while I jump off of a bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Absolutely. The 2002 draft was a weak draft. If TD was an idiot to pick Big Mike then half of the GM's that year were idiots for their picks. Of the top 10 picks only Peppers and Roy Williams are studs and Dallas took alot of heat for drafting a safety that early. TD's other options? McKinnie, not much different than Mike. Jammer? Bills had Winfield and Clements. Simms or Henderson? Freeney turned out great but 10 teams passed on him because he was undersized. Sucks to have a high pick in a weak draft. That's why I always laugh when they talk about the biggest draft busts and mention Walt Patulski. Take a look at the 72 draft. Franco Harris at the 13th overall pick was the only HOFer in the 1st round. Hell, the Bills at one time or another had 5 of the players taken in the 1st round including 3 out of the first 4. (Patulski 1st, Sherman White 2nd, Bobby Moore (Ahmad Rashad) 4th, Jeff Kinney 23rd and Mike Kadish 25th). 497971[/snapback] 1 Houston David Carr QB Fresno State 2 Carolina Julius PeppersDE North Carolina 3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon 4 Buffalo Mike Williams T Texas 5 San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas 6 Kansas City Ryan Sims DT North Carolina 7 Minnesota Bryant McKinnie T Miami 8 Dallas Roy Williams FS Oklahoma 9 Jacksonville John Henderson DT Tennessee 10 Cincinnati Levi Jones T Arizona State 11 Indianapolis Dwight Freeney DE Syracuse 12 Arizona Wendell Bryant DT Wisconsin 13 New Orleans Donte' Stallworth WR Tennessee 14 N.Y. Giants Jeremy ShockeyTE Miami 15 Tennessee Albert Haynesworth DT Tennessee 16 Cleveland William Green RB Boston College 17 Oakland Phillip Buchanon CB Miami 18 Atlanta T.J. Duckett RB Michigan State 19 Denver Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii 20 Green Bay Javon Walker WR Florida State 21 New Bruschi (We're not worthy!) (We're not worthy!) Daniel Graham TE Colorado 22 N.Y. Jets Bryan Thomas DE Ala.-Birmingham 23 Oakland Napoleon Harris ILB Northwestern 24 Baltimore Ed Reed SS Miami 25 New Orleans Charles Grant DE Georgia 26 Philadelphia Lito Sheppard CB Florida 27 San Francisco Mike Rumph CB Miami 28 Seattle Jerramy Stevens TE Washington 29 Chicago Marc Colombo T Boston College 30 Pittsburgh Kendall Simmons G Auburn 31 St. Louis Robert Thomas MLB UCLA 32 Washington Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane Well, the above boldfaced players seem ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Well, the above boldfaced players seem ok. 498031[/snapback] I agree, there are much worse drafts for available talent out there than 2002. Definitely some busts, but a lot of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobblehead Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I agree, there are much worse drafts for available talent out there than 2002. Definitely some busts, but a lot of talent. 498039[/snapback] I think Roy Williams deserves the bold face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I'm with you. McKinnie and Williams were the two linemen discussed at the top of that draft. I'm not interested in any spin that is bound to follow to the contrary. Every GM needing a lineman would have went with either of the two if they had a pick that high. No one can prove otherwise. Addendum: Anyone using the "lower picked linemen have turned out better" spin? No, sorry, not listening. Those other linemen would not have been picked if McKinnie and/or Williams were available to them. Addendum#2: Anyone claiming a DT or DE would have been better? Again, no, sorry, not listening to that. OL was needed at the time, and sad to say, still is. 497860[/snapback] Couldn't have said it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I think Roy Williams deserves the bold face. 498043[/snapback] OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Neither will I. Now excuse me (not that many will mind) while I jump off of a bridge. 498002[/snapback] Over Troubled Water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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