stevestojan Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know neither guy (Schobel or Kelsay) is a "superstar" on their own, but both are WELL above average. (well, Schobel has proven it, and Kelsay - from preseason and week one seems to be as well). I dont know of any team where BOTH DE's have the potential of more than 10 sacks each. I would love to see that, & I think Schobel can rack up 15 this year! I think with Denny fading away, this DE corp is one to be fearful of. (doesn't hurt when you have an awesome LB group right behind them!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know neither guy (Schobel or Kelsay) is a "superstar" on their own, but both are WELL above average. (well, Schobel has proven it, and Kelsay - from preseason and week one seems to be as well). I dont know of any team where BOTH DE's have the potential of more than 10 sacks each. I would love to see that, & I think Schobel can rack up 15 this year! I think with Denny fading away, this DE corp is one to be fearful of. (doesn't hurt when you have an awesome LB group right behind them!) 33474[/snapback] now i know your dreaming. schobel is about the 15th best DE in the league, at best. (but hes young, and most of the other guys are older.) and kelsey and denny have shown nothign as far as pass rush to show they are even average. 6-8 sacks a year is average. 10+ sacks is good. 15+ sacks is great (probowler) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 now i know your dreaming. schobel is about the 15th best DE in the league, at best. (but hes young, and most of the other guys are older.) 33517[/snapback] I know. I know he's not one of the elite. My point is, by being complimented by Kelsay, the tandum is very good. Its like one team has a 10 at right DE, and a 2 at left DE. It seems the Bills now have two 7's. That make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know. I know he's not one of the elite. My point is, by being complimented by Kelsay, the tandum is very good. Its like one team has a 10 at right DE, and a 2 at left DE. It seems the Bills now have two 7's. That make sense? 33521[/snapback] i see. maybe you are right about that. better to have good players at all positions than a few great ones with some suck ass players next to them. but it seems a team with a 10 and a 2 at DE, have more sacks and pressures than a team with a 8 and a 4 at DE. (kelsey will have to beat a OT one on one for a sack befor he moves up from a 4 in my book.) i did see him beat the OT and make a NICE tackle for a loss agenst the jags though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know neither guy (Schobel or Kelsay) is a "superstar" on their own, but both are WELL above average. (well, Schobel has proven it, and Kelsay - from preseason and week one seems to be as well). I dont know of any team where BOTH DE's have the potential of more than 10 sacks each. I would love to see that, & I think Schobel can rack up 15 this year! I think with Denny fading away, this DE corp is one to be fearful of. (doesn't hurt when you have an awesome LB group right behind them!) 33474[/snapback] I don't know, maybe after the Year is over...And I think if Kelsay really does step up and become a solid Starter, the rotation is actually quite decent with Denny backing up both spots...But I think we'll know WAY more on the subject by Mid Season... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know. I know he's not one of the elite. My point is, by being complimented by Kelsay, the tandum is very good. Its like one team has a 10 at right DE, and a 2 at left DE. It seems the Bills now have two 7's. That make sense? 33521[/snapback] It's more like the Bills have a 7 and two 3s. No doubt the DEs are young and have the potential to get better, but right now, they are a weakness on the defense. The good news is that the Bills have very good blitzing LBs, and to generate a strong rush, Gray has to blitz. That's just where this team is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I'm hopeful now that TD has invested huge money in AS, that he steps up his play to the Pro Bowl level. Kelsay is nothing but potential at this point. This combo is no better than middle of the pack especially when you factor in playing the run, but seeing how they are young and have shown some flashes, they certainly have some upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 schoebel gets sacks mostly on hustle... no team is scared of him... I've never known him to command a double team... Kelsay... i don't know... but if you held a gun to my head, my take is ... I see Kelsay and Schoebel are close to the same thing... just play on opposite ends. I don't know of too many white DEs (and I'm not being racist here), but the good ones seem to be African-American But the bottom line is... no way would I consider these two guys as a top 5 tandem. At best I'd grade them average. The Bills get no consistent sacks from either of these guys. I gauge an upper tier DE on the play of guys like Jason Taylor, Mike Strahan, Gregg Ellis, Dwight Freeney, Jevon Kearse... These guys are at the top of the scouting chart and usually the first thing brought up when their opposition game plans. No way either Schobel and Kelsay can be considered in that company... at least not yet. I think Sean Moran is comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 No way either Schobel and Kelsay can be considered in that company... at least not yet. I think Sean Moran is comparable. 33614[/snapback] I'm not overly impressed with either, but I'd say they're better than Sean Moran . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 NYJ have J. Abraham, and S. Ellis, Panthers have J. Peppers and soemone else whos good, forget the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 They did play pretty well on sunday. Let's see how they do in the next few weeks. Top 5 sounds a little too optimistic based on one week, but I did like what I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know. I know he's not one of the elite. My point is, by being complimented by Kelsay, the tandum is very good. Its like one team has a 10 at right DE, and a 2 at left DE. It seems the Bills now have two 7's. That make sense? 33521[/snapback] No, because a 10 creates opportunities for his teammates, which turns a 2 into a 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 This tandem is lucky to be right in the middle of the pack. Shoebel commands no double teams and is consistantly beat by draws and runs his way. I will say that his run defense has improved, and considering his potential it was a good resigning by TD. Kelsay is unknown. He made a few nice tackles but I didn't see consistant pressure. It's still early for him so I'm willing to see how the year goes. Denney is a bust as a second round draft pick as far as I'm concerned. You should be able to get a solid starter in the beginning of the second round of the draft. RunTheBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know neither guy (Schobel or Kelsay) is a "superstar" on their own, but both are WELL above average. (well, Schobel has proven it, and Kelsay - from preseason and week one seems to be as well). I dont know of any team where BOTH DE's have the potential of more than 10 sacks each. I would love to see that, & I think Schobel can rack up 15 this year! I think with Denny fading away, this DE corp is one to be fearful of. (doesn't hurt when you have an awesome LB group right behind them!) 33474[/snapback] While it is not totally accurate....DE's are measured on Sacks... Until Kelsay starts getting some....I wont list him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I think they're somewhere around the middle of the pack. No better than that. Now the DT's Adams and Williams, that's another story!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCCEO Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 NYJ have J. Abraham, and S. Ellis, Panthers have J. Peppers and soemone else whos good, forget the name. 33627[/snapback] Mike Rucker So whose DEFINATELY better than us at DE: those 2 teams. Possibly Chicago Dallas New Orleans Possibly Philly Theres a few more that compare but not many that are definitively better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know Schobel takes a fair amount of criticism that he's inconsistent and a lot of his sacks are, well, not up to par with other sack specialists around the league, but his sack total was top ten last season. I wouldn't begin to start trying to rank the tandem as top ten until I see what they produce through a whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 It's hard to compare without seeing all the other teams on a regular basis. If you want a nice summary of the starting DE's go here and take a look. http://fantasyinsights.com/fantasy/depthdef.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soljc Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I know neither guy (Schobel or Kelsay) is a "superstar" on their own, but both are WELL above average. (well, Schobel has proven it, and Kelsay - from preseason and week one seems to be as well). I dont know of any team where BOTH DE's have the potential of more than 10 sacks each. I would love to see that, & I think Schobel can rack up 15 this year! I think with Denny fading away, this DE corp is one to be fearful of. (doesn't hurt when you have an awesome LB group right behind them!) 33474[/snapback] Those hurricanes have knocked you silly. Even suggesting our DEs are a top 5 tandum is ridiculous. Heck, we couldn't decide on the LDE starter until a few weeks ago, and that wasn't because they were both studs. And as far as I'm concerned, the only thing Schobel has proven is that he can rush the QB. His run defense is mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Kelsay, "well above average"!?!?!? Where does that come from? He has played one game as a starter and only barely beat out a guy who is considered to be a major bust. He had a decidedly average performance against the Jags whose offense is appallingly bad. I have high hopes for Kelasay but for now, he is, at best, barely adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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