Mort Says TH Deal Maybe Today

[LabattBlue]

Travis is way to good of a running back to get rid of.  This is a mistake.

382371[/snapback]

...and WM is way too good to be sitting on the bench splitting time with TH. TH has his limitations as have been well doumented on TSW over the last year. Get what you can and move on. WM is the starter at RB and will be for the forseeable future.

[sfladave]

First of all, there is no deal. If one does happen, a 4th/conditional 3rd would allow TD to save face, and would be a steal for the Bills; addition by subtraction of a dumbass, and a 4th round pick to boot.

 

As for the RJ/Flutie comparison, are you telling us that you prefer Travis to Willis? 

382266[/snapback]

I am well versed on your reasoning that we will get nothing better than a 4th or 5th for Henry (that is if we don't cut him), but if a deal were made in the next few days do you really think that TD would do it for less than a 3rd? We have 3 teams sniffing around and training camp hasn't even started.

[Ennjay]

Ahh...grasshopper you learn well. 

 

The point is that we let Flutie go (albeit via FA) to keep RJ as our starting QB.  Here we are letting TH go to keep WM.  Both RJ and WM played well when they replaced the starting player.

382269[/snapback]

 

Actually for DF/RJ that's backward.

 

At the beginning, RJ was the starter and DF the back-up. DF took over when RJ got injured (NEWSFLASH!), caught fire, lost the Miami playoff game and went to the Pro Bowl. The next year the Bills made the playoffs again, DF got "rested" against Indy in the last regular season game (giving RJ the start), and Wade (Ralph?) stayed with RJ for the Tennessee playoff game. So it was Flutie who played well in relief of an injured player, not Johnson -- Flutie wasn't injured when RJ replaced him.

 

If you think the Bills should stick with the hot guy replacing the injured dud, keping WM over TH is what you want and the exact opposite of RJ over DF.

[Mickey]

My God Mickey your analogy reeks of someone who needs constant stimulation. Your comparison of "excitement" to "trip to vegas" fits in perfectly. I certainly can undersatnd what you are saying but I don't happen to agree with it. To help you understand, try replacing the word "exciting" with "enjoyable".

 

Thus SOME people (not you evidently find fishing ENJOYABLE while others (such as yourself) find it BORING. SOMEpeople ENJOY going camping, others enjoy going to Vegas.

 

You couldn't pay me to use my free time in a casino. You, on the other hand, apparently would have to be roped and thrown physically into a rowboat or canoe to ever get you to go out into nature.

 

Different strokes for ......

 

As to the Henry news: Fine. You're bored. To the rest of us, the idea of FINALLY ending the Travis henry era in Buffalo AND getting a decent draft pick IS exciting to SOME of us.

 

sigh

 

Good luck in Vegas Mickey. I hope you win but , more importantly, I hope you have fun.

 

watching the red-tailed hawks out my window (which I find exciting)

 

RichNJoisy

www.cnjbbb.org

382264[/snapback]

ummm.... that was supposed to be a tongue in cheek deal, I wasn't seriously trying to besmirch the sport of fishing. As for Vegas, there is a lot more there than gambling. The cocktail waitresses and free drinks alone are enough of a draw for me but I am easy to please.

 

Clearly, I find the "news" of Henry's departure exciting enough to read every post about it. After reading Nick's post I reached for my nerf Bills logo football and fired one at the dog who was minding his own business on the cool tiles in front of the fireplace after shouting, in my best Van Miller imitation, "Losman goes long to Evans..." So yeah, I am pathetically devouring every tid-bit of football info I can while I count the days to camp just like everyone else on the board.

[duey]

This as of 11:15 am...

 

Despite reports that the Jacksonville Jaguars are close to acquiring Travis Henry, the Tennessee Titans have made the more attractive trade proposal to the Buffalo Bills and are the front-runner in the chase for the disgruntled tailback.

 

Discussions between the Bills and the two most ardent suitors for Henry have been ramped up, and the situation remains in flux as Buffalo officials continue their efforts trade Henry sooner rather than later. The Seattle Seahawks, who had earlier indicated interest in Henry, apparently are out of the hunt.

 

Jaguars coach Jack Del Rio told the Florida Times-Union on Thursday that the addition of Henry, who has been on the trading block for virtually the entire offseason, could be completed "in the next few days or week."

 

"The fact that we have an opportunity to acquire a running back [with] this kind of talent is something we have to look at, [and] so we're looking at it," Del Rio said. "This may or may not happen, but we're protecting our interests, and any time we think we can acquire somebody who can help us, we're going to do that."

 

In their quest to add a proven tailback as an insurance policy in case star Fred Taylor might not be fully rehabilitated from knee surgery for the start of the regular season, the Jaguars have completed one crucial element in a potential acquisition of Henry. ESPN.com has confirmed that the Jaguars earlier this week eached agreement in principle with Henry on a multi-year contract extension.

 

But the Jaguars are lagging in the second half of the equation, satisfying the price tag of Buffalo general manager Tom Donahoe, who has been seeking a third-round draft pick in return for the four-year veteran tailback.

 

It is now believed that Tennessee, which has been trying to land a proven tailback to back up fragile starter Chris Brown, has offered the Bills a solid third-round pick. That pick, it is believed, includes no conditions. It is not known what Jacksonville has proposed to the Bills, and it's actually unclear whether the Jaguars have even made a formal offer. The Titans have not been able yet to reach a contract extension accord with Henry.

 

Because Henry is entering the final year of his contract, with a scheduled base salary of $1.25 million for 2005, an extension is important. No team would want to deal for Henry and then have him depart as an unrestricted free agent next spring.

 

Further complicating trade negotiations is that Tennessee general manager Floyd Reese is attending his son's wedding this weekend and could be unavailable for bargaining.

 

A tough and determined inside runner, with a pair of 1,000-yard seasons, Henry is an attractive back for both teams, in part because of the injury problems of their current starters. Brown has missed considerable playing time in both his seasons with the Titans and is currently recovering from a broken hand suffered this spring. Taylor had knee surgery in the offseason to repair what he said were two torn ligaments.

 

Del Rio said Thursday that Jaguars officials were encouraged this week by the progress Taylor has recently demonstrated, but acknowledged the veteran back will practice only once a day, likely in shorts, for the opening stages of training camp.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor..._len&id=2108553

 

I'm liking how this is developing!

[Mickey]

I don't think the facts support the argument that he has played poorly at every other phase of his position.

 

The context for this is an argument about what in fact are the phases of the RB position and what is the relative importance of those phases.

 

In my mind, one can probably list a bunch of phases important to the RB position and go as far as you want but as the list gets longer they diminish in importance. My incomplete list stopping at the point where the phases are of important but small import that I can do without them if the RB cannot do them are:

 

1. He is a running threat.

2. He is a receiving threat.

3. He is adequate as a blocker.

4. Other issues of import which they are great if he does them but I can live with it easily if he does not (ex: Positive ST play, On-field captain, Option passing threat, Does not fumble, Good locker room guy, Etc.)

 

Further, there are a variety of positive % of each element that can vary and a player is still a positive force overall if he has the right combination of abilities and you run the right O to make use of them.  However, in a standard approach to an O I would assign the following percentages of import:

 

1. Running:  66%- The main jobby far of a running back is to run.  It's great if my RB is a receiving threat like a Marshall Faulk or a Thurman Thomas but if he can run the ball this is why I have him in.  Jerome Bettis is a wildly good example of an RB that exemplifies the point. He has generally caught less than 10 passes for several years running and historically gains 100 yards or less as a receiver each year, but who cares the Bus is a great RB.

 

2. Receiving 25%- Again there are some wild cases where an RB is such a good runner, i do not require him to pick up a lot of yards receiving in order to judge him good. However, for the standard NFL O and player he must show some ability to catch the ball in order to make the O work and the running game effective.  Most fans might make judgments about this based on a player having a critical or few outragous drops.  if it is a few this is wrong particularly if the drops are accompanied by the player having recorded a good season as a receiver.

 

I think this is the Henry story and where some obsservers are simply in error claiming he is a dysfunctional or bad receiver.  Like it or not the 43 receptions he had in 2002 and was selected to the Pro Bowl as a reserve because of his running yardage and because he caught the ball is a clear indicator that he is a receiving threat.  His rookie year of 2001 where he caught less than 30 but also was not the starting RB for all the season and actually had a better YPC than his very good receiving year in 2002 ae signs his best year was consistent and not a fluke. His receiving total dropped to 28 catches in 2003 even though he rushed for 1300+ yds. but our O was so ineffectual that year, Kevin Killdrive's gamecalls were so predictable and Bledsoe is not one known for his touch on short passes that his downturn is far more likely to be caused by other factors than Henry not being able to play the receving phase of the game well enough.

 

3. Blocking- 5%- Again if a player is a total stiff in various regards of the game this can be a problem, but outside of badly missing a blitz pick-up as a rookie which got even Flutie sacked, Henry has been adequate at blitz pick-up in my judgment. There is not stat which exemplifies him being good or bad at this so its tough to argue beyond folks fact-free opinions (mine and others).  However, it says a lot whether this is an issue which was cited a lot in the a players career by fans and pundits in terms of assessing an assessment.  The fact is that Henry was revered by many Bills fans as a roolkie with promise in 2001 and as a leading player in 2002 and 2003 and the blitz pick-up complaint about his work in this facet of the game only emeged as folks were shopping for any reason to indict him.

 

The other thing I would say generally about blocking is that though blitz pick-up is an important part of this much lesser facet of the RB game, an RB's ability to block to make the accompanying FB a threat to run can be just as important as the blitz pick-up blocking depending on the offense a team uses.

 

The other factors are important also but a I said if a player sucks at them fine as I can find another player who is bright enough to be my on field captain even if the RB is such a dimbulb he can only run and catch or he never plays ST.

 

I did mention one non-negative that it is of import that an RB have which is that he holds onto the ball. This factor needs to be noted for a player whose job it is to carry the ball a lot.  However, this also is only a factor and even if a player sucks holding onto the ball it is not a disqualifier for me if he performs well in other parts of the game.  For example, Henry racked up almost a fumble a game in 2002 and lost 8 of them to opponents (who returned them for long scores a couple of times though the result of an opponent score is more determined by how the funny shaped ball bounces after the RB makes the mistake of letting it go). Howerver, he earned a Pro Bowl appearance despite his horrendous funble record because fumbling is bad but is easily outweighed by being a running threat and receiving threat.  If you think this was just an odd case that was solely Travis look at some of Tiki Barber's years until he like TH solved his fumbling problem,

 

the bottomline for me is that the claim that he sucks at all phases of the position except for running is simply wrong and is unsupported by the stats. Further, running and getting yards running is by far the most important part of an RBs job that 1300+ yard performances in two of his four years (the other two were a promising rookie season that was good in my judgment and a lost fouth year when he gave up on his teammates (the real reason a trade is the correct thing to do) because he perceived the team gave up on him.

 

TH is way far away from a cancer on this team because though he was clearly unhappy and not a positive in trying to reach a goal that is hard enough to reach with everyone giving 110%, he was not a cancer. I have seen cancer's and clearly during the season he was no where near being one. Even in the off-season, though TH moved his bags and said he wanted to go, this situation could be repaired if he and the Bills were forced to do that (and he would have had no real choice but to suck it up an make good if he remained a Bill and he wanted to get a big payday).

382364[/snapback]

Silly boy, you had me at "I don't think..."

[1billsfan]

I recall a couple of people thinking we should offer a Henry and a draft pick in order to get someone to take him.

382372[/snapback]

 

Those people will be eating some crow today.

[erynthered]

This board is going to Rosen when the trade happens.

[canadian bill]

Yeah things look alot better than the did amonth ago. On a side note I don't think we should trade him but if we do, wich we are going to, things look better.

[RunTheBall]

Travis = Peerless

 

In the sense that he'll get the cash from some other team and then tank.

Some team is going to give up a 3rd rounder or conditional 2nd for a backup RB.

 

We'll then spend that pick on a "high motor" defensive end from mormon country.

 

RTB

[Ramius]

How many threads will pop up about TD being an idiot/genious for making the trade/waiting too long?

 

i'll set the over under at 37

 

And what will everyone say who said we should just cut TH or trade him for nothing?

[beerme1]

He's an idiot!

[Alaska Darin]

We'll then spend that pick on a "high motor" defensive end from mormon country.

382436[/snapback]

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb...

[Mickey]

This as of 11:15 am...

 

Despite reports that the Jacksonville Jaguars are close to acquiring Travis Henry, the Tennessee Titans have made the more attractive trade proposal to the Buffalo Bills and are the front-runner in the chase for the disgruntled tailback.

 

Discussions between the Bills and the two most ardent suitors for Henry have been ramped up, and the situation remains in flux as Buffalo officials continue their efforts trade Henry sooner rather than later. The Seattle Seahawks, who had earlier indicated interest in Henry, apparently are out of the hunt.

 

Jaguars coach Jack Del Rio told the Florida Times-Union on Thursday that the addition of Henry, who has been on the trading block for virtually the entire offseason, could be completed "in the next few days or week."

 

"The fact that we have an opportunity to acquire a running back [with] this kind of talent is something we have to look at, [and] so we're looking at it," Del Rio said. "This may or may not happen, but we're protecting our interests, and any time we think we can acquire somebody who can help us, we're going to do that."

 

In their quest to add a proven tailback as an insurance policy in case star Fred Taylor might not be fully rehabilitated from knee surgery for the start of the regular season, the Jaguars have completed one crucial element in a potential acquisition of Henry. ESPN.com has confirmed that the Jaguars earlier this week eached agreement in principle with Henry on a multi-year contract extension.

 

But the Jaguars are lagging in the second half of the equation, satisfying the price tag of Buffalo general manager Tom Donahoe, who has been seeking a third-round draft pick in return for the four-year veteran tailback.

 

It is now believed that Tennessee, which has been trying to land a proven tailback to back up fragile starter Chris Brown, has offered the Bills a solid third-round pick. That pick, it is believed, includes no conditions. It is not known what Jacksonville has proposed to the Bills, and it's actually unclear whether the Jaguars have even made a formal offer. The Titans have not been able yet to reach a contract extension accord with Henry.

 

Because Henry is entering the final year of his contract, with a scheduled base salary of $1.25 million for 2005, an extension is important. No team would want to deal for Henry and then have him depart as an unrestricted free agent next spring.

 

Further complicating trade negotiations is that Tennessee general manager Floyd Reese is attending his son's wedding this weekend and could be unavailable for bargaining.

 

A tough and determined inside runner, with a pair of 1,000-yard seasons, Henry is an attractive back for both teams, in part because of the injury problems of their current starters. Brown has missed considerable playing time in both his seasons with the Titans and is currently recovering from a broken hand suffered this spring. Taylor had knee surgery in the offseason to repair what he said were two torn ligaments.

 

Del Rio said Thursday that Jaguars officials were encouraged this week by the progress Taylor has recently demonstrated, but acknowledged the veteran back will practice only once a day, likely in shorts, for the opening stages of training camp.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor..._len&id=2108553

 

I'm liking how this is developing!

382418[/snapback]

What catches my eye about that story is Seattle dropping out. They would only do that if it was clear that the price tag was too steep which is good news for us. Maybe we won't get the second or first round pick so many dreamed of in those heady days prior to the draft but a third rounder would be better than a fourth and that is looking more and more like a possibility.

[LabattBlue]

This is a beauty from a recent TH thread....

 

 

Yeah things look alot better than the did amonth ago. On a side note I don't think we should trade him but if we do, wich we are going to, things look better.

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.jaguars.com/story/4468.asp

[plenzmd1]

What catches my eye about that story is Seattle dropping out.  They would only do that if it was clear that the price tag was too steep which is good news for us.  Maybe we won't get the second or first round pick so many dreamed of in those heady days prior to the draft but a third rounder would be better than a fourth and that is looking more and more like a possibility.

382449[/snapback]

My guess is Seattle leaked a report they were interested only to try and get Alexander to move on his stance. However, now that it is getting heated , maybe the price does move up into the realm of 3rd, with a a conditional second if certain performance goals hit.

 

Doubt it, but a man can dream. BTW, I am on record of saying I would rather keep him, and that goes back to January

[erynthered]

He's an idiot!

382441[/snapback]

 

 

He's a genius I say!!

[Dan III]

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead...

[envirojeff]

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead...

382483[/snapback]

Daninator, you ignorant slut!

 

Jeff

[HurlyBurly51]

Looks like his agent Hadley is trying to dictate a deal. I recall someone on the wall saying a drunken Engelhard after a game running off at the mouth about how he was going to screw the Bills. Well, he could be stalling contract extension talks with the Titans in order to force a deal to the Jags, since Tenn presumably won't complete the trade unless they have an extension in place.

 

The 3rd from Tenn is better than a 3rd from Jax in that it will likely be at the top of the round as opposed to Jax, as well as not helping a team that will be competing for a playoff spot this year. I could see his dumbass agent screwing this one up, and I hope Donahoe doesn't end up giving TH to the Jags just because TH agent won't make a deal with Tenn. If he gets stubborn, we could see Jax drop out and be stuck with Henry even longer, with no competition for Tenn to bid against.

 

God I'll be glad when this is FINALLY over!

[MadBuffaloDisease]

If Hardly Everhard tries to screw up the deal, TD should tell him that Travis will NOT be traded, won't be activated at all this season, and he'll trash him to every GM in the NFL prior to the next FA period. Talk about screwing WHOM over!

[richNjoisy]

Looks like his agent Hadley is trying to dictate a deal.  I recall someone on the wall saying a drunken Engelhard after a game running off at the mouth about how he was going to screw the Bills.  Well, he could be stalling contract extension talks with the Titans in order to force a deal to the Jags, since Tenn presumably won't complete the trade unless they have an extension in place.

 

The 3rd from Tenn is better than a 3rd from Jax in that it will likely be at the top of the round as opposed to Jax, as well as not helping a team that will be competing for a playoff spot this year.  I could see his dumbass agent screwing this one up, and I hope Donahoe doesn't end up giving TH to the Jags just because TH agent won't make a deal with Tenn.  If he gets stubborn, we could see Jax drop out and be stuck with Henry even longer, with no competition for Tenn to bid against.

 

God I'll be glad when this is FINALLY over!

382577[/snapback]

 

Let's not get paranoid.

 

MONEY is the key here and, all "strutting" and talking aside, that is what this will come down to for Travis. IF the Titans want to beat out the Jaguars, they will have to not only work out the trade with Buffalo but alos work out a deal with Travis' agent. Engelhard is in this for the money. Period. If Tennessee comes up with equal or better money to the Jaguars, then he will convince Henry , "it's for the best". Travis, meanwhile, proably prefers Jacksoville (closer to home) but more $$$ will get his attention since, in reality, that is all he is truly interested in.

 

The Bills are not in much of a hurry unless they think they can sign another FA with the cap room a Travis trade clears up. The Jags and Titans and henry, however, ARE in a hurry. Sooooo, the Bills can wait until their demands are met and Travis and the offering team agree on a contract.

 

Relax, this poker game is going fine for us.

 

-RnJ

[Ramius]

This thread has gottne very confusing to follow ever since about 6 threads were combined into 1...

[Marv Levy]

Would the Bills be better off getting someone immediately for Travis than a 3rd round pick or something? Wouldn't they benefit with a lineman who can step in now? 3rd round pick, nice, but doesn't help us right now.

 

Too bad Travis just can't except his backup roll, get his 15-20 carries a game and really help us win a championship. The Bills would be awesome with WM and TH in the backfield!! Too bad its all about MONEY!!!!!!!!

[LabattBlue]

Too bad Travis just can't except his backup roll, get his 15-20 carries a game and really help us win a championship. The Bills would be awesome with WM and TH in the backfield!! Too bad its all about MONEY!!!!!!!!

382670[/snapback]

In a backup role TH would get 15-20 carries a game? I think it would be more like 1 or 2 series(5-7 carries) at best to just give WM a breather.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Would the Bills be better off getting someone immediately for Travis than a 3rd round pick or something? Wouldn't they benefit with a lineman who can step in now? 3rd round pick, nice, but doesn't help us right now.

 

Too bad Travis just can't except his backup roll, get his 15-20 carries a game and really help us win a championship. The Bills would be awesome with WM and TH in the backfield!! Too bad its all about MONEY!!!!!!!!

382670[/snapback]

 

Yeah but it's a good thing to have picks in next years draft to help us load up on future starters and depth. We have some major issues coming up on the defensive side of the ball in the next 2 years.