Bear Front

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The 3rd down defense is the one I worry about the most.

 

But again, they are not even that terrible in that...they rank 18th.  Last year they were like 30th or 31st I think. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I have a feeling you think Buffalo Joe is a hottie.

 

He definitely is. I mean he is no daddy JoPo but still.... 

[SoonerBillsFan]

I helped coach that at the HS level for 2 years.  Its really effective of guys just own their gaps.

[HoofHearted]

2 hours ago, Chief Loves Bills said:

Bear with me here. I’m no expert, so I’m looking for feedback from those who are…

 

I was listening to the NFL channel on Sirius this morning and a conversation came up regarding running against the Bear Front: a nose, two DTs, and two DEs. They said it was nearly impossible to run against and normally offenses will check to a pass to get around it. Their example was the Pat’s Bear Front call in the Seahawks Super Bowl. Marshawn was never going to run on the end zone play because it was a Bear Front and the Pats knew the Seahawks would check to the slant. Good coaching.

 

I make no claim we have the personnel to run this call often, or we should base our defense around it, but have any of you seen that type of front called this year from us? Have we mixed it in to stop the bleeding in some of our worse performances? I heard we ran some 3-4 stuff to try. Would it even work with our guys?

The front is just an alignment - not a personnel package. We could run a Bear front out of our base defense if we wanted to. I'm sure we have the ability to. I'm almost certain we done this vs tush push teams. It's not a defense you live out of though. Too many ways to exploit it.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But again, they are not even that terrible in that...they rank 18th.  Last year they were like 30th or 31st I think. 

 

They were 29th last year. And trending for the same before McDermott took over playcalling. Was worse v Tampa but his first 3 games as playcaller they were in top 3 in the NFL territory and that boosted the average.

Edited 3 hours ago by GunnerBill

[colin]

so i know we play base nickel, but tbh that (for us and other teams at least like 40% of the time, if not more) just means we take off an LB and put in a corner.  a lot of the time 7 for us (and the nickel corner for other teams) basically plays linebacker in that they line up exactly where an LB would line up and do exactly what an LB would do on that play.  when we are in different formations and do creative things to disguise and post snap and all of that then it ends up being more of a tool for the DC, but the bear formation discussed above is the same thing as a 3-4 where the outside LBs line up on the line in a 3 point stance, there are two things at play -- who you put out and what you have them do.

 

IMO, what we've seen many times and especially this season -- when we go 3 LBs instead of nickle we are taking off taron johnson who is shot/washed right now (hope he's hurt and just gets better) and we put on dorian williams who is perhaps a touch undersized but is a physical player and a real plus athlete.  3 LBs also creates some formation changes so that 8 and 58 don't have to be super fast and perfect in technique and reads or else they get their tiny slow bodies thrown around, so i think having DW out there improves their level of play as well.

 

i think 8, shaq, and dorian williams (when they are available) should be our base LB set and should get a good number of snaps going forward.  when he was in his prime 7 was a nasty player, but he's not been steady in coverage for over a year now and he's really undersized in the run game.

 

also, as max gets more burn and benford is back to health (something was wrong with him before, he was just not good in a few games this season), along w old may poy/hancock and the suddenly solid cole bishop, the secondary is better so we can put more resources into the front 7 to stop the run and be physical/pressure the passer.

[gonzo1105]

By the way a 46 is not like a 5-2 or a 3-4 exactly. It’s basically a 6-2 but the 4 base lineman are shaded to the weakside of the formation and two LBs are on the strong side of the formation l. The MLB and the SS are the two players off the ball then a 3 person secondary 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Going heavy with a single high safety has usually been where buffalo gets gashed for huge runs

 

Yep, once the RB gets passed the line there is no one left to stop him.

44 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But again, they are not even that terrible in that...they rank 18th.  Last year they were like 30th or 31st I think. 

 

Lot of season left for them to get back there 

 

But for me, it seems more a "3rd and long" issue. Like 3rd and 3, we got this. But 3rd and 18... just start moving the chains.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I know people are concerned about the run defense but it tends to get really hard for any team to run the ball in the postseason.

 

Run defense is about effort and execution and the Bills are bad right now simply because of a lack of those two things and that's very controllable.

 

The 2017 Bills defense post-Dareus trade couldn't stop a regular season run to save their lives...........but in the playoff game in Jax their run defense would have sent the run-first Jags to Cancun if they just had a Sammy Watkins or Bob Woods to throw to and put some points on the board. 

 

What's REALLY concerning is the extremely poor pass rush the past couple weeks.   They are going to have to get creative because they probably can't even win a WC game on the road if they don't rush the passer better than that.  

[TheFunPolice]

I would implement the Cold Front

 

1 DL

10 DB

 

Good luck passing. Aint happening. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, transient said:

Weeks?!?! Where have YOU been for the past 3-4 seasons? This is not a new problem in 2025. 

It's not new, but it's gotten aggressively worse over the last few seasons. 

 

Buffalo brings in player that in theory can stop the pass. Can't remember when the last good 2 down run thumping LBer played here. Brandon Spikes maybe?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

The front is just an alignment - not a personnel package. We could run a Bear front out of our base defense if we wanted to. I'm sure we have the ability to. I'm almost certain we done this vs tush push teams. It's not a defense you live out of though. Too many ways to exploit it.

 

The sideline passes in condensed formations would be an issue.  It was typically run by teams that blitz a lot, during an era of football when most teams ran the ball.  And like every other defense in the 80s/90s it requires your safeties and linebackers hammer anyone over the middle, which you can't do anymore.  

2 hours ago, harmonkillebrew said:

Not sure that's true.

Tucker's big run against us was in base nickel. Taron and Bernard ran into each other, Bosa couldn't hold the edge, Benford got consumed by a WR block, and Poyer took a bad angle and got leveled by a pulling G

 

I more meant it as reading a bear front to be something like a 46 defense - which has a number of players at or near the LOS - which is when you give up large runs (and passes for that matter).  

 

Could you mix it in? Sure - but i don't think you can come out of that on 1st down more than a couple times before teams are passing out of condensed sets to race to the sideline, or attacking your boundary corners in obvious single high looks.  

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

The sideline passes in condensed formations would be an issue.  It was typically run by teams that blitz a lot, during an era of football when most teams ran the ball.  And like every other defense in the 80s/90s it requires your safeties and linebackers hammer anyone over the middle, which you can't do anymore.  

There's a whole host of things that would be an issue. That's why no one uses it as a base defense. The argument that is really being made on these boards is whether we'd prefer Dorian or Taron out on the field. Neither one has looked like a solution, unfortunately.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

The front is just an alignment - not a personnel package. We could run a Bear front out of our base defense if we wanted to. I'm sure we have the ability to. I'm almost certain we done this vs tush push teams. It's not a defense you live out of though. Too many ways to exploit it.

Between the 20s there are just so many ways to exploit it in modern NFL 

 

But When the field gets condensed... And you're looking to win one-on-one matchups 

 

It's an alignment that can give you those one-on-one looks along the defensive line that you want , there's good pressure packages out of it 

 

In the modern NFL this is better with your back against the wall then applying it when you have 80 yards of field left

[harmonkillebrew]

23 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

The sideline passes in condensed formations would be an issue.  It was typically run by teams that blitz a lot, during an era of football when most teams ran the ball.  And like every other defense in the 80s/90s it requires your safeties and linebackers hammer anyone over the middle, which you can't do anymore.  

 

I more meant it as reading a bear front to be something like a 46 defense - which has a number of players at or near the LOS - which is when you give up large runs (and passes for that matter).  

 

Could you mix it in? Sure - but i don't think you can come out of that on 1st down more than a couple times before teams are passing out of condensed sets to race to the sideline, or attacking your boundary corners in obvious single high looks.  

I just wonder if we've gotten to the point where our run D is such a liability and teams are planning for the feast that maybe we need to mix it up a bit. Not let teams come out the gate ramming it down our throats. See if we can't get them off script and get a lead, so they start trying to pass more. 

 

Every team knows at this point that our base D is nickel and our personnel does not play it well enough anymore to protect against the run.