Ricky Scoops reporting that Jacobi Meyers is on the move/being traded.

[HappyDays]

48 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think Moore has a solid skill set but 0 football iq after watching that game Monday haha falcons could just blitz all night because some of those WRs that never really play had absolutely no idea how to adjust their routes  

 

I'd cut Moore after his performance in that game. Two plays stuck out. The first I can't find a video on, but it was that late 3rd and 10 where Moore ran straight into vertical leverage instead of running a comeback into open space like Allen expected. Awful mental error that cost us our last real drive.

 

And then there's this 1st and 10 play where you'll watch it once and won't think Moore has anything to do with it, but I'll explain:

 

This is one of those plays Joe Marino counted as Allen not throwing to a WR with separation. Shakir looks clearly open on his quick out and Allen is looking in his direction. But look at the outside CB Mike Hughes on that side. Hughes has his eyes on Allen and is peeking Shakir's route. He's able to keep his body leveraged in a way that if Allen throws that ball with anticipation he could abandon Moore in coverage and potentially jump the pass for a pick six.

 

Coming back to Moore's fault on this play - he is supposed to run a clear out route and he absolutely dogs it. Really a shocking lack of effort from a bottom of the depth chart WR that should be fighting for his NFL career. The only reason Hughes is able to stay leveraged to potentially jump the route to Shakir is because Moore presents him with no real vertical threat. Moore's job was to take him out of the play and he didn't. Allen could have thrown that ball but the reward was a 4 yard gain and the risk was a pick six that effectively ends the game.

 

These are unacceptable mental and effort errors from Moore on critical end of game drives, and for that I would cut him.

 

Edited Thursday at 02:50 PM by HappyDays

[SoCal Deek]

What I see on that video clip is a terribly designed route tree. Nobody is open. None of the routes are in combination with any of the others. No rubs. No ‘picks’. No zone overloads. No nothing! 
 

Just run out to the neighbor’s tree and turn around. 

[MikePJ76]

Bill Barnwell has a speculative trade article here

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/46599869/2025-nfl-trade-deadline-barnwell-offers-proposals-hendrickson-phillips-wilson-meyers

 

shaheed to steelers..This compensation seems perfect.  Buffalo should do this if this is the compensation

 

Steelers get: WR Rashid Shaheed, 2026 fifth-round pick
Saints get: 2026 fourth-round pick

 

here is what he has for the Bills

 

Bills add more safety help

 

Bills get: S Jason Pinnock, 2027 seventh-round pick
49ers get: 2027 sixth-round pick

 

The Bills badly need help at safety. Cole Bishop and Taylor Rapp have struggled both in coverage and with tackling this season. The Bills aren't going to give up on Bishop, a second-round pick in last year's draft, but so many of the big plays they've struggled with this season have come in moments where Buffalo's safeties either missed tackles or weren't in position to even attempt one. Rapp was run over at the goal line by Tyler Allgeier on his 21-yard touchdown Monday night, while Bijan Robinson cut back against a Bishop tackle attempt for 22 yards and then ran through a Bishop tackle on the sideline for his 81-yard touchdown.

The safeties aren't the only problem in Buffalo, but they've definitely been a concern. And with Damar Hamlin on injured reserve, there isn't really any viable alternative for the Bills.

 

Safety has been an issue with a lot of competitive teams around the NFL this season. There just aren't many rosters with serious safety depth that could justify a trade. One of the few exceptions is a team that has injury issues just about everywhere besides safety right now. The 49ers started Pinnock in September, but that was always going to be a temporary solution. He fell out of the lineup altogether last week, with the Niners preferring Marques Sigle, Ji'Ayir Brown and the returning Malik Mustapha at safety to him.

 

Pinnock's not going to transform the Bills' defense, but he has been passable as a center fielder as a pro and would offer the Bills some depth. Bishop had to briefly leave the Falcons game, leading the Bills to turn to 34-year-old veteran Jordan Poyer for a handful of snaps. Poyer was once an essential part of Sean McDermott's defense, but those days have come and gone. The 49ers would add a little bit of draft capital with this deal, something they could use to address one of the eight or nine positions on their roster that have been riddled with injuries this season as part of another deal.

Edited Thursday at 02:58 PM by MikePJ76

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What I see on that video clip is a terribly designed route tree. Nobody is open. None of the routes are in combination with any of the others. No rubs. No ‘picks’. No zone overloads. No nothing! 
 

Just run out to the neighbor’s tree and turn around. 

 

I think they are just trying to pick up 6 yards on 1st down. With Shakir's YAC abilities he even has a good chance of getting 10 yards. I don't mind the philosophy, with this offense as currently constructed we kind of have to make getting into manageable 2nd and 3rd downs the goal of every series. Brady is not a schematic genius by any stretch of the imagination but he needs better WRs from the top of the depth chart to the bottom.

 

I'll hate if Moore is still on the team after the bye week. That sends a message that this kind of crap is acceptable.

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think they are just trying to pick up 6 yards on 1st down. With Shakir's YAC abilities he even has a good chance of getting 10 yards. I don't mind the philosophy, with this offense as currently constructed we kind of have to make getting into manageable 2nd and 3rd downs the goal of every series. Brady is not a schematic genius by any stretch of the imagination but he needs better WRs from the top of the depth chart to the bottom.

 

I'll hate if Moore is still on the team after the bye week. That sends a message that this kind of crap is acceptable.

So you’re saying we don’t need Brady at all. Literally EVERY high school OC can design that route tree. Every single one! 

[HappyDays]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

So you’re saying we don’t need Brady at all. Literally EVERY high school OC can design that route tree. Every single one! 

 

I don't feel the need to defend Brady, his limitations are obvious and his inexperience shows up against well coached defenses. But the Bills knew that when they hired him, or at least they should have. There was no evidence that he was some prodigy just waiting to get his chance. So it is just bad team building. You can't hire the inexperienced OC with a simple scheme and also give him crap to work with. I'm not totally satisfied with Brady but I don't blame him either. To me that's like blaming Shakir for not getting both feet inbounds on the tight sideline catch. When you ask players and coaches to do more than their abilities allow, you can't blame them when they fall short. I blame the people that put them in those positions.

[BillytheKid]

20 hours ago, PayDaBill$ said:

Lmao he probably got the info from Mr Scoops it’s like a game of telephone.

According to Joe Marino, says he’s watched the NFL film & he says receivers are getting open and Josh isn’t seeing or checking down.  Also he pointed out that continuing to force the ball into Coleman on these sideline 50 50 balls isn’t that great either because sometimes Josh is committing to it instead of making the read.

 

I do think Brady has been part of the problem the past two games to honest.  The game plan to open the half in the last 2 seemed off from how we started the season. 
 

 

I watched another show after that with Joe Marino and Nate Geary. He had Nate on as a guest.

 

Not sure if you watched that one yet but they said on that show there is definitely a separation problem and that the only 2 people getting any type of separation are Kincaid and Palmer and sometimes Shakir.

 

They both were talking about how their was a game plan to go downfield to Palmer more in the Atlanta game but he got hurt first play of the 2nd qtr and at that point they had no Kincaid or Palmer so all Atlanta had to do was take away Shakir. 
 

They both said the biggest problem is that Kincaid when healthy along with Palmer and Cook aren’t on the field for enough plays and that they are playing Coleman in the wrong spot but keep putting him on the field to try to get him going but it isn’t working because Coleman can’t get open and they just need to start playing the guys that can get open more snaps when they are healthy. 
 

They also said trying to get a safety or another guy for defense won’t work in the middle of the year because they don’t have enough time to learn McDermotts system and that right now Rapp is playing horrible and they would rather see Poyer out there because he at least knows where to be and you can’t count on that with Rapp right now. They said the secondary is not playing well because the CB’s can’t trust the Safeties to be where they should be so the CB’s are over compensating for it and it is allowing teams to get wide open receivers. 
 

They were saying they would rather the Bills just go get another receiver to help the offense even more and to try to just outscore everyone because that is the best route to go with this team because there isn’t a fix for the defense mid season. 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, BillytheKid said:

 

They were saying they would rather the Bills just go get another receiver to help the offense even more and to try to just outscore everyone because that is the best route to go with this team because there isn’t a fix for the defense mid season. 

 

 

[BillytheKid]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Their point was if it was between the offense and defense then go the offensive route because the defense is a lost cause at this point. 
 

I think they were referring to all the people saying the Bills should trade for Safety help or secondary help and basically telling them that isn’t an option because of how McDermott runs his defense so there is no one they could bring in that could learn where they need to be at certain times or spots quick enough to help the defense. 
 

They said this, not me to be clear. 😀

[TurfToeJam]

16 minutes ago, BillytheKid said:

 

right now Rapp is playing horrible and they would rather see Poyer out there because he at least knows where to be and you can’t count on that with Rapp right now. 

 

I agree with this.  I would give Poyer a shot at starting even though he slowed down.  Rapp has been playing bad

4 minutes ago, BillytheKid said:

Their point was if it was between the offense and defense then go the offensive route because the defense is a lost cause at this point. 
 

I think they were referring to all the people saying the Bills should trade for Safety help or secondary help and basically telling them that isn’t an option because of how McDermott runs his defense so there is no one they could bring in that could learn where they need to be at certain times or spots quick enough to help the defense. 
 

They said this, not me to be clear. 😀

 

I wouldn't think the safety position would be as hard to learn as dline/ lb in McD's crappy defensive scheme

[Simon]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'd cut Moore after his performance in that game. Two plays stuck out. 

 

 

That video is horrific.

And yes I do remember the other play where he blew the read; I even said something to my son about it at the time.

 

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

What I see on that video clip is a terribly designed route tree. Nobody is open. None of the routes are in combination with any of the others. No rubs. No ‘picks’. No zone overloads. No nothing! 

 

There was a nice combo on the left that opened up, but Allen never looked over there (his occasional habit of disregarding his left) and he bailed because protection was breaking down.

[Watkins90]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'd cut Moore after his performance in that game. Two plays stuck out. The first I can't find a video on, but it was that late 3rd and 10 where Moore ran straight into vertical leverage instead of running a comeback into open space like Allen expected. Awful mental error that cost us our last real drive.

 

And then there's this 1st and 10 play where you'll watch it once and won't think Moore has anything to do with it, but I'll explain:

 

This is one of those plays Joe Marino counted as Allen not throwing to a WR with separation. Shakir looks clearly open on his quick out and Allen is looking in his direction. But look at the outside CB Mike Hughes on that side. Hughes has his eyes on Allen and is peeking Shakir's route. He's able to keep his body leveraged in a way that if Allen throws that ball with anticipation he could abandon Moore in coverage and potentially jump the pass for a pick six.

 

Coming back to Moore's fault on this play - he is supposed to run a clear out route and he absolutely dogs it. Really a shocking lack of effort from a bottom of the depth chart WR that should be fighting for his NFL career. The only reason Hughes is able to stay leveraged to potentially jump the route to Shakir is because Moore presents him with no real vertical threat. Moore's job was to take him out of the play and he didn't. Allen could have thrown that ball but the reward was a 4 yard gain and the risk was a pick six that effectively ends the game.

 

These are unacceptable mental and effort errors from Moore on critical end of game drives, and for that I would cut him.

 

I disagree. I don't think Hughes picks it off. If Allen throws the ball as soon as Kalil starts his break, he hits him for a nice gain. Instead, Allen panicked and bailed. He had the time, just needed to trust the line and pull the trigger. Now, if he does that, he definitely gets hit, but it would be after the ball is out. 

Edited Thursday at 04:29 PM by Watkins90

[Watkins90]

34 minutes ago, BillytheKid said:

Their point was if it was between the offense and defense then go the offensive route because the defense is a lost cause at this point. 
 

I think they were referring to all the people saying the Bills should trade for Safety help or secondary help and basically telling them that isn’t an option because of how McDermott runs his defense so there is no one they could bring in that could learn where they need to be at certain times or spots quick enough to help the defense. 
 

They said this, not me to be clear. 😀

You mean to tell me that McDermott's scheme is so complicated that a safety couldn't pick it up in like 2 or 3 weeks, even if they rode the bench for a little bit after being traded here?

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

What I see on that video clip is a terribly designed route tree. Nobody is open.

 

Watch the entire ALL 22 and you might puke.

 

Zero separation as far as the eye can see.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, BillytheKid said:

Their point was if it was between the offense and defense then go the offensive route because the defense is a lost cause at this point. 
 

I think they were referring to all the people saying the Bills should trade for Safety help or secondary help and basically telling them that isn’t an option because of how McDermott runs his defense so there is no one they could bring in that could learn where they need to be at certain times or spots quick enough to help the defense. 
 

They said this, not me to be clear. 😀

Oh I know. The fact that anybody had to say that out loud is hilarious to me. The fact that the Bills leadership literally tried to build the roster exactly the opposite is crazy. They were like “throw everything at defense and Josh will make everyone fine.” It was insanity at the time and it’s insanity in hindsight. Beane really missed.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, BillytheKid said:

I watched another show after that with Joe Marino and Nate Geary. He had Nate on as a guest.

 

Not sure if you watched that one yet but they said on that show there is definitely a separation problem and that the only 2 people getting any type of separation are Kincaid and Palmer and sometimes Shakir.

 

They both were talking about how their was a game plan to go downfield to Palmer more in the Atlanta game but he got hurt first play of the 2nd qtr and at that point they had no Kincaid or Palmer so all Atlanta had to do was take away Shakir. 
 

They both said the biggest problem is that Kincaid when healthy along with Palmer and Cook aren’t on the field for enough plays and that they are playing Coleman in the wrong spot but keep putting him on the field to try to get him going but it isn’t working because Coleman can’t get open and they just need to start playing the guys that can get open more snaps when they are healthy. 
 

They also said trying to get a safety or another guy for defense won’t work in the middle of the year because they don’t have enough time to learn McDermotts system and that right now Rapp is playing horrible and they would rather see Poyer out there because he at least knows where to be and you can’t count on that with Rapp right now. They said the secondary is not playing well because the CB’s can’t trust the Safeties to be where they should be so the CB’s are over compensating for it and it is allowing teams to get wide open receivers. 
 

They were saying they would rather the Bills just go get another receiver to help the offense even more and to try to just outscore everyone because that is the best route to go with this team because there isn’t a fix for the defense mid season. 

 

 

Coleman's only route to success long-term in the NFL is going to be playing big slot. I'm going to pound this table until I break it through, I'm banned for spamming, or I die. 

 

With the way the bills are playing right now there's a good chance I'll die from a heart attack.

 

Coleman can't get open against cornerbacks. Shakir isn't finding success this reason and he may heat up.

 

In the meantime we have Dalton Kincaid who was just not a good enough receiver lining up a tight end and getting covered adequately by linebackers and safeties. 

 

If we put Coleman in the big slot or on the field with Kincaid both in the interior positions this creates a mismatch problem that seems must adjust to by leveraging inside contain. 

 

Should we get Palmer back and have him on the outside he will have to be men on man and we all depend on him to beat his man. That's a big ask for him though possible, same with Gabe Davis, same with Curtis Samuel. However if we had a true number one on the outside with those guys and James Cook in the backfield it would be very hard for a defensive balance against us because Coleman is going to have a cornerback playing him at big slot and that is a little bit of an advantage for Coleman to body that corner leveraging the middle of the field. 

 

Gosh I'm typing a lot....

But the idea of bunching our formations together will work against a lot of these teams that we play and would have done well against the Falcons and their small defenders. Because we could switch tight ends or pull Shakir to replace with Knox and double tight end. We could also pull Kincaid for Hawes and power run. 

 

It makes me sick that Joe Brady can't get an identity with all of the talent. Simply decide what you're going to do and run it over and over and over and over again

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Oh I know. The fact that anybody had to say that out loud is hilarious to me. The fact that the Bills leadership literally tried to build the roster exactly the opposite is crazy. They were like “throw everything at defense and Josh will make everyone fine.” It was insanity at the time and it’s insanity in hindsight. Beane really missed.

The only time I will say anything about being with his attitude about the wide receiver. Him calling up and chastising the radio announcers did not sit well with me this is either because he has a bad read on the talent of wide receiver as a position or we were grossly let down by what our front office judged the talent to be of guys like Curtis Samuel, keon Coleman, and Joshua Palmer.

Edited Thursday at 05:01 PM by boyst

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Watkins90 said:

I disagree. I don't think Hughes picks it off. If Allen throws the ball as soon as Kalil starts his break, he hits him for a nice gain. Instead, Allen panicked and bailed. He had the time, just needed to trust the line and pull the trigger. Now, if he does that, he definitely gets hit, but it would be after the ball is out. 

 

You very well could be right but the read isn't clean there. Hughes does a good job keeping his body leveraged to potentially drive forward (in part because he is given no reason to really respect the vertical threat), his eyes are on Allen the whole time, and his position on the field in relation to Shakir gives him a clean path to where the ball will be delivered. It might have still been completed but the risk/reward is a pick six versus a 5 yard completion. Allen used to throw a bunch of INTs like that where a DB nearby breaks off his assignment to pick off the ball, especially when Dorsey was OC. Since Brady took over I've noticed Allen has been very intentional about avoiding those picks.

 

Anyways I'm not trying to convince anyone this pass would definitely be intercepted. I'm just saying there's a legitimate reason Allen turned down the throw and Moore's crap effort directly led to that decision.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

The only time I will say anything about being with his attitude about the wide receiver. Him calling up and chastising the radio announcers did not sit well with me this is either because he has a bad read on the talent of wide receiver as a position or we were grossly let down by what our front office judged the talent to be of guys like Curtis Samuel, keon Coleman, and Joshua Palmer.

It is like that are you a liar or incompetent?  Did he really think that they were okay at WR? If he did, I’m deeply concerned. 85% of this message board recognized the problem and the GM didn’t?!?
 

If he knew they were bad and just shouted down the morning show guys without even believing what he was saying, that too is concerning. Is the ego that fragile? Are you that insecure that you can’t handle mild criticism? Either way, when he pushed his chips in that day, he opened himself up to all of the criticism coming his way now for the trash WR room. 

[PatsFanNH]

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Meyers is a good NFL receiver. He’s not perfect but he’s better than anyone on the Bills roster. 

I don’t see why the Pats would want him though.. he isn’t a true 1 and we have enough 2 and 3s already

[boyst]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

I don’t see why the Pats would want him though.. he isn’t a true 1 and we have enough 2 and 3s already

And the reality is that diggs is a number one.

 

The belief that a number one receiver must Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, someone of that level... There's a reason there's a distinct tier 1 of wide receivers and it's only five or six. 

 

Only five or six teams have those guys and it's not clear on who they may be at any given point. The best example is Garrett Wilson in New Jersey. The guy is top five talent and playing at a subpar level. 

 

Stefon Diggs is a 1B wide receiver.