The obsession with turning Josh Allen into a pocket QB

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

For the past couple of years it seems like Josh Allen has been trending down as a runner. We have an idiot coordinator who constructs an offense like they have Trent Edward’s under center. I never understood the constant obsession (even on this board) with neutering Josh Allen and cutting off his legs. You’re taking away one of his best skill sets. 
 

There was a 4th down play against the Falcons where he could’ve very easily ran it for a first and would’ve done so in the past. Instead he throws a low % ball that of course falls incomplete by a mile. 

 

I get when your guy is hitting that mid 30s mark, but just turned 29 in the offseason?! No major knee/lower body injuries. Even the Chiefs aren’t that dumb. Mahomes is their leading rusher. At least they’re showing they’ll do what it takes when other facets of the offense aren’t working. Just pure stupidity.
 

Josh is special when he’s running with the ball. Don’t neuter him. I’d rather have 5 more high level MVP years than 8 more of this garbage. It’s like watching an Eagle with its wings clipped. Brady has to go. Cook and the running game wouldn’t suffer one bit if they canned this bum. 

[bubba2018]

And where has the QB Sweep been for oh idk 2 years? That play was money on 3rd/4th down/short and we never run it. Its almost like these coaches legitimately do not actually do their due diligence or are just plain stupid

Edited 20 hours ago by bubba2018

[BillsFan130]

I will never understand the complete overhaul they did on offence after Daboll.

 

They went from a heavy 11 personnel team who airs the ball all over the yard with talented recievers, to "ground and pound" with heavy packages, and little talent at the WR position.

 

I get they had to change a bit as defences in the NFL have adjusted to a lot more 2 high shell.. But this drastic of a change when JA17 is the QB, and we are essentially making him a game manager? 

 

Never will understand it

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

I will never understand the complete overhaul they did on offence after Daboll.

 

They went from a heavy 11 personnel team who airs the ball all over the yard with talented recievers, to "ground and pound" with heavy packages, and little talent at the WR position.

 

I get they had to change a bit as defences in the NFL have adjusted to a lot more 2 high shell.. But this drastic of a change when JA17 is the QB, and we are essentially making him a game manager? 

 

Never will understand it

That's what McDermott wanted. "Complementary football," i.e. run heavy offense to protect his sad sack defense 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That's what McDermott wanted. "Complementary football," i.e. run heavy offense to protect his sad sack defense 

Yep. This is why I'm not sure how much of it is Joe Brady vs McDermott.

Brady definitely deserves his fair share of blame for questionable and predictable play calls

 

But I really wonder how this offence would like if he had free reigns. (Personnel and play calling)

[T.E.]

I hate virtually everything about our offensive strategy. It is weak, gimmicky crap - the type of stuff a college team runs when their QB will immediately be converted to WR as soon as he gets to the NFL.

Edited 20 hours ago by T.E.

[BillsFan130]

Mahomes Vs Josh for passing attempts..

 

To elaborate on the point I said above, They have turned Josh into more or less a game manager. And I always said Josh needs at least 30 passing attempts per game.

 

So I did some digging for his pass attempts this year vs Mahomes.

 

Josh- 4/6 games has under 30 passing attempts per game.

 

Mahomes only has 1, and that number was 29 in that game.

 

We have a top 3 QB in the nfl and we build an offence for him to average like 26-28 pass attempts per game. It's just unacceptable in my opinion to build a running offence around maybe the best QB in the game.

 

 

[nedboy7]

I think we should be able to have a good run game along with a creative passing game.  I love the balance of a good run game to compliment the passing offense.  I think Josh has to run less to protect himself as he gets older.  I dont see anything wrong with him running only when truly needed.  The problem is the lack of talent at WR and the less than desirable play calling in the past few weeks.  No originality to scheme players open.  And it is painful to watch how this WR group is below average.  The problem with the second half was abandoning the run after the initial scoring drive.  The 3rd and 4th down play calling was absurd as well.  

[947]

I fully agree that they should let Josh run around more.

 

That said, Josh is not the same runner he was even 2 years ago. He's clearly not as fast as once was, to my eyes. His top speed is still good but his acceleration is not the same and his change of direction appears more stiff. I think this is why he keeps getting trapped in the backfield & brought down, when those used to turn into 10 yard scrambles.

Edited 20 hours ago by 947

[Livinginthepast]

It makes me laugh how much respect people on here give Brady and Babich. To me they both seem like summer students who somehow lucked into a full time job but surprise surprise they really dont have a clue. Neither went through a strenuous hiring process and both are beholden to McD. I dont think either gets the same job anywhere else in the NFL. Both verge on amateurish in their schemes but Babich hasnt ruined a once great defense, whereas arguably Brady has neutered Allen with his offense.

[Jimmy Harris 69]

The neutering of Josh Allen’s wild side has lowered the number of turnovers, as well as splash plays. McDermott wants complementary football, code for heavy run, low risk passing. Last night the Bills needed to go for it on fourth down to jump start the offense. But we kept giving the ball back to the falcons. They could have won with only half a game of solid play, but Sean got scared and Joe Brady was in a daze. Third and short and Cook goes to the sideline. They are short receivers and yet Cook isn’t used as a receiver. He could have easily changed the outcome of the evening. What a wasted opportunity. 

[Allen2Moulds]

It's our shift to a power run team, to the detriment of our passing offense. 3 TEs, but seriously undermanned At WR.

 

Josh was at his best when we had Brown (vertical threat), Beasley (slot) and Diggs (X). We have Shakir, but have massively failed at both outside receiver spots, the X, and Y. 

 

Nothing stresses a defense more than speed, yet, we have very little of it. Combined that with the fact that we have a QB with a bazooka for an arm, and it makes this criminal. 

 

I'm done with Beane.

 

[Big Turk]

Allen is on pace for more scrambles than any year in his career by a wide margin.

 

Are we just going to make up things now?

[Cash]

4 hours ago, bubba2018 said:

And where has the QB Sweep been for oh idk 2 years? That play was money on 3rd/4th down/short and we never run it. Its almost like these coaches legitimately do not actually do their due diligence or are just plain stupid

We ran it once in the Ravens game, I think. I seem to remember calling it when I saw their formation, but that whole game is a blur at this point. 
 

There was one play last night where I thought they were going to run it again - I think it was either the 4th down flip pass or maybe a goal line possession? I just remember that 1) I was wrong, and 2) the play they actually ran failed. 

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Mahomes Vs Josh for passing attempts..

 

To elaborate on the point I said above, They have turned Josh into more or less a game manager. And I always said Josh needs at least 30 passing attempts per game.

 

So I did some digging for his pass attempts this year vs Mahomes.

 

Josh- 4/6 games has under 30 passing attempts per game.

 

Mahomes only has 1, and that number was 29 in that game.

 

We have a top 3 QB in the nfl and we build an offence for him to average like 26-28 pass attempts per game. It's just unacceptable in my opinion to build a running offence around maybe the best QB in the game.

 

 

Bills have a better run game. Also, Reid is known for not running the ball enough. 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Mahomes Vs Josh for passing attempts..

 

To elaborate on the point I said above, They have turned Josh into more or less a game manager. And I always said Josh needs at least 30 passing attempts per game.

 

So I did some digging for his pass attempts this year vs Mahomes.

 

Josh- 4/6 games has under 30 passing attempts per game.

 

Mahomes only has 1, and that number was 29 in that game.

 

We have a top 3 QB in the nfl and we build an offence for him to average like 26-28 pass attempts per game. It's just unacceptable in my opinion to build a running offence around maybe the best QB in the game.

 

 

 

 

For years ... YEARS ... we had people on here telling us the whole problem was our mediocre run game, that we needed to take the pressure off Josh to act like Superman all the time by getting a good runner and a good physical OL.

 

So we get that and now it's that the problem is that we've taken the ball out of Josh's hands.

 

Josh isn't playing as well as he usually does. Nor is most of the offense. Plus losing Kincaid and Palmer is going to tend to reduce passing effectiveness.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it's not to give him more difficult throws. Mix in more longer and mid-range stuff, maybe? More bunch formations and such? I'm not against bringing in another WR in a trade, but people keep asking for Chase and for Garrett Wilson. Better to be realistic. Maybe a speed guy would help.

 

The Bills have a record, a long and consistent record, of fixing problems they encounter early and in the middle of the season by the time December rolls around. Hopefully that will continue.

Edited 15 hours ago by Thurman#1

[ProcessTruster]

If more teams copy what Atl did (play man on our WRs and rush 5 or 6 most downs) thinking this is (and it is) the way to stop the passing game, ten yes, time for Josh to break the pocket and take off more.  Just as he did in the early years before teams switched to the deep zone coverage (and thereby took both the long ball and Josh scrambles away-- which forced the Bills to become more of a running, ball control team). 

[BillsFan130]

7 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Bills have a better run game. Also, Reid is known for not running the ball enough. 

Ok- And we killed our passing game by switching to running heavy.

 

If you're asking me would I rather Andy Reid's play calling/scheme vs Joe Brady's, that's the easiest answer I've ever had to give 

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

For years ... YEARS ... we had people on here telling us the whole problem was our mediocre run game, that we needed to take the pressure off Josh to act like Superman all the time by getting a good runner and a good physical OL.

 

So we get that and now it's that the problem is that we've taken the ball out of Josh's hands.

 

Josh isn't playing as well as he usually does. Nor is most of the offense. Plus losing Kincaid and Palmer is going to tend to reduce passing effectiveness.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it's not to give him more difficult throws. Mix in more longer and mid-range stuff, maybe? More bunch formations and such? I'm not against bringing in another WR in a trade, but people keep asking for Chase and for Garrett Wilson. Better to be realistic. Maybe a speed guy would help.

 

The Bills have a record, a long and consistent record, of fixing problems they encounter early and in the middle of the season by the time December rolls around. Hopefully that will continue.

Ya I remember that argument. I was never one of those people myself though as I always want the game in Josh's hands.

 

They definitely did need a few more easy button throws. But like I said, I think they over corrected way too much 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

For years ... YEARS ... we had people on here telling us the whole problem was our mediocre run game, that we needed to take the pressure off Josh to act like Superman all the time by getting a good runner and a good physical OL.

 

So we get that and now it's that the problem is that we've taken the ball out of Josh's hands.

 

Josh isn't playing as well as he usually does. Nor is most of the offense. Plus losing Kincaid and Palmer is going to tend to reduce passing effectiveness.

 

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure it's not to give him more difficult throws. Mix in more longer and mid-range stuff, maybe? More bunch formations and such? I'm not against bringing in another WR in a trade, but people keep asking for Chase and for Garrett Wilson. Better to be realistic. Maybe a speed guy would help.

 

The Bills have a record, a long and consistent record, of fixing problems they encounter early and in the middle of the season by the time December rolls around. Hopefully that will continue.

No. You had people that wanted a running game that can be a consistent threat. Not an entirely run based offense. 

[The Jokeman]

11 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Mahomes Vs Josh for passing attempts..

 

To elaborate on the point I said above, They have turned Josh into more or less a game manager. And I always said Josh needs at least 30 passing attempts per game.

 

So I did some digging for his pass attempts this year vs Mahomes.

 

Josh- 4/6 games has under 30 passing attempts per game.

 

Mahomes only has 1, and that number was 29 in that game.

 

We have a top 3 QB in the nfl and we build an offence for him to average like 26-28 pass attempts per game. It's just unacceptable in my opinion to build a running offence around maybe the best QB in the game.

 

 

Mahomes also has a less than stellar running game to complement his passing. So a lot of his passes are screens or as I used to call them when teams ran the West Coast Offense, thruns. Basically passes that gained 4-5 yards to help make the game more manageable.