Roster Support over the past three years (Beane)

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

Thanks for the work OP. Pretty much nailed why we can't make that next step. Look at the firepower KC has replenished itself with. Then theres NE and Indy. Meanwhile were just gonna keep spinning our tires when eight years has been plenty of time to break through for this regime. Do I trust Terry to get it right as someone else suggested. Nope. What were doing however isnt cutting it so you have nothing to lose by cutting McBeane loose. This is Dan Reeves the sequel. Question is whose our Mike Shanahan.

[Pete]

I’m anti Beane until he gets Josh a quality WR.  

[Rigotz]

It's amazing how quickly this fan base turned from "Beane is a wizard" to "Beane needs to be fired."

 

I'm seemingly one of the few people in the middle. The overreaction isn't necessary.

 

Beane has had some good years when we were all singing his praise.

 

Lately, he has been very cold in the draft and gave out some bad contracts. It happens.

 

You don't need to burn the whole village down just yet .... lets revisit this thread in a few weeks.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

It's amazing how quickly this fan base turned from "Beane is a wizard" to "Beane needs to be fired."

 

I'm seemingly one of the few people in the middle. The overreaction isn't necessary.

 

Beane has had some good years when we were all singing his praise.

 

Lately, he has been very cold in the draft and gave out some bad contracts. It happens.

 

You don't need to burn the whole village down just yet .... lets revisit this thread in a few weeks.

 

They've been very trait focused in the draft at times,  and other times they seem to almost completely ignore traits because they like the film.  I get the idea behind it because you're looking for potential growth in a faster/stronger player, but sometimes the player just isn't up to the task.  

 

I also think people are quick to judge a player both positively and negatively week-to-week.  Players have bad games, it happens to all of them, even HOFers.  I'm not going to come out and say Coleman sucks when the plan after palmer gets injured is to just line him up outside 1x1 with AJ Terrell in a game where the Falcons were getting most of the calls.  If he's struggled all game in press man, you need to find ways to get a player involved differently just to get the juice flowing again.  A successful play can often lead to additional positive plays.  

 

Somehow the team lost their way in the Falcons game and there's a number of factors - the falcons defense being better than people expect is a big one, but the failures were about on the game and not all of them can be traced back to the teams inability to shed man coverage.  

[BillsShredder83]

On 10/14/2025 at 8:13 PM, Cray51 said:

I compared the last three drafts (not the current season, too soon) of Buffalo compared to a few other teams who have been in  similar situations as the Bills (Division winners since 2020, high end QB).  That pretty much leaves Baltimore and Kansas City.  And with that, Baltimore had a few down years (21-22 and 22-23).

 

Bills:

Draft Picks:

2024: 

Coleman - Meh so far

Bishop - Meh so far

Carter - Bust

Davis - Meh

Van-Prager - Bust

Ulofisho - Bust

Solomon - Bust

Grable - Unknown (they like him a lot)

Hardy - Bust

Clayton - Bust

No standout talent

 

Ravens:

2024:

Wiggins - Good

Rosengarten - Meh

Isaac - Bust

Walker - Bust

Tampa - Meh (bad year so far)

Ali - Bust

Leary - Bust

Samac - Bust

Kane - Bust

 

KC:

2024:

Worthy - Meh/Good (He has had big games, but his career stats are almost EXACTLY like Colemans')

Kingsley - Meh

Wiley - Bust

Hicks - Meh

Nourzad - Meh

Hadden - Bust

Hanson - Bust

 

2024 Summary:

None of the teams hit on a stud in this draft.  Worthy has shown a flash or two, but the production doesnt match the way some speak of him here.  Wiggins is probably the best player of the group to date.  No superstars or even stars out of the group yet (maybe Wiggins, but I'd say that's a stretch)

 

2023:

Bills:

Kincaid - Meh/Good (Trending well but injured frequently)

Torrence - Good (Maybe really good)

Williams - Meh

Shorter - Bust

Broeker - Bust

Austin - Bust for the Bills, Meh pick overall

 

Ravens:

Flowers - Good

Simpson - Good

Robinson - Meh

Kelly - Bust

Laulu - Bust

Vorehees - meh

 

KC:

Uzomah - Bust

Rice - Good 

Morris - Bust

Conners - Meh (decent player though)

Thompson - Bust

Coburn - Bust

Jones - Bust

 

2023 Summary: Again, all similar results to date.  Baltimore with probably the best results, but you could argue the Bills have had two legit impact players on their offense in Kincaid and Torrence.  KC with the worst draft of the group, Uzomah was a massive bust

 

2022 Draft:

Bills:

Elam: Bust

Cook - Great

Bernard - Good

Shakir - Good

Araiza - Good (Bust for Bills)

Benford - Good

Tenuta - Bust

Spector - Bust

 

Ravens:

Hamilton - Great

Linderbaum - Good

Ojabo - Bust

Jones - Good

Faalele - Meh

Armour-Davis - Bust

Kolar - Bust

Stout - Good

Likely - Good

Williams - Bust

Badie - Bust

 

KC:

McDuffie - Great

Karlaftis - Good

Moore - Bust

Cook - Good

Chenal - Good

Williams - Good

Kinnard - Bust

Watson - Meh

Pacheco - Meh

Johnson - Bust

 

Summary: Really strong draft year.  Baltimore really lucked into Hamilton this season, the fact that he fell is crazy.  Elam bust stick out, but the Bills had a really strong rest of the draft.  Overall, I'd say all three teams had a great draft - hard to differentiate impact.

 

Overall summary - None of the teams have been head or shoulders above the others over the past three drafts (22-24).  Each team have had their share of hits (McDuffie, Hamilton, Cook), and their share of busts (Uzomah, Elam).  If you try to compare the Bills draft to any other teams, they tend to have picked much earlier than them from 2020-2025, which drastically impacts the results.  At the end of the day, if you are upset with the Bills draft results from the past few years, you could be a fan of KC or Baltimore and saying the exact same thing.

 

I'll need to cover FA in another post

I know it won't be (to be fair, the board may not have the capability) BUT THIS SHOULD BE PINNED AS THE 2ND COMMENT IN THE POST.

 

I know several posters would just pick the narrative that fits their narrative and crusade with it... but this is a well done post that brings a lot of context!  The only fair way to look at this, is to look at both of these posts.  I was furious until I got to this one, and Im certain there are improvements to make from all 3 of these teams.

 

I'd be really interested in seeing the FA Side of this post, which is likely the more damning comparison.  I'm not assigning work to anyone, just adding a thought. I think a great way to add additional context would be to chart out the teams who picked in top 3 of each round too, and then ONLY EXAMINE the picks made a round down, so how the bad teams picked BEHIND US.  i.e END OF 1ST RD -> TOP OF 2ND // BOTTOM 2ND -> TOP OF 3RD ETC ETC

[Pete]

On 10/13/2025 at 11:55 PM, True Blue said:

If it were me I’d bench Coleman but if McD insists on starting him I’d line him up as a slot receiver 

Are you going to bench Shakir for Slowman?

[BillsShredder83]

On 10/14/2025 at 8:25 PM, bubba2018 said:

that 24 draft is so f ing brutal🤣🤣

In total fairness.  There are ZERO Pro Bowlers drafted after #23 overall in the entire draft!  Thats kinda mind blowing, even if it was only 1year ago.  A quick glance as I dont have time to dig in, is that 2024 was a pretty weak Draft overall.  That doesnt fully let Beane off the hook; but Baltimore & KC having similar results as us makes it much less egregious.

[Pete]

56 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

They've been very trait focused in the draft at times,  and other times they seem to almost completely ignore traits because they like the film.  I get the idea behind it because you're looking for potential growth in a faster/stronger player, but sometimes the player just isn't up to the task.  

 

I also think people are quick to judge a player both positively and negatively week-to-week.  Players have bad games, it happens to all of them, even HOFers.  I'm not going to come out and say Coleman sucks when the plan after palmer gets injured is to just line him up outside 1x1 with AJ Terrell in a game where the Falcons were getting most of the calls.  If he's struggled all game in press man, you need to find ways to get a player involved differently just to get the juice flowing again.  A successful play can often lead to additional positive plays.  

 

Somehow the team lost their way in the Falcons game and there's a number of factors - the falcons defense being better than people expect is a big one, but the failures were about on the game and not all of them can be traced back to the teams inability to shed man coverage.  

We say Coleman sucks by his body of work in the NFL and College.  I told you Coleman sucked when he was at college.  He was slow then too.  

[BillsShredder83]

On 10/17/2025 at 10:05 AM, ngbills said:

Beane prefers all the many every body eats pieces.  We don’t need a Chase that completely takes over game. We would rather spend $20m+ on Moore, Samuel, Knox, etc. 

People looking at this emotionally is going to happen.... but it completely kills any/all attempts to look at this objectively.  I'm screaming WR, as much/more than 99% of the board but.....  where was the chance to get a Chase?  There wasn't.  Theres a good post showing/comparing KC & Baltimores draft to ours, since all 3 were picking in very similar range.... and they all 3 are almost identical.

 

Yes, I f'n hate the Samuel/Knox money too... Samuel was pretty universally looked at as a HR signing here.  Knox was much more split, but leaned towards approved.

 

Im furious we are where we are too. DK should certainly be a Bill right now. I'm not here to defend Beane, depending on how this season turns out I could be swayed towards firing him.  At the same time, people posting emotionally when their is a solid chunk of really good context, soooooo close to OP's.  It's intentionally/unintentionally ignorant, hitting send on posts like that ^^^

[ngbills]

9 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

People looking at this emotionally is going to happen.... but it completely kills any/all attempts to look at this objectively.  I'm screaming WR, as much/more than 99% of the board but.....  where was the chance to get a Chase?  There wasn't.  Theres a good post showing/comparing KC & Baltimores draft to ours, since all 3 were picking in very similar range.... and they all 3 are almost identical.

 

Yes, I f'n hate the Samuel/Knox money too... Samuel was pretty universally looked at as a HR signing here.  Knox was much more split, but leaned towards approved.

 

Im furious we are where we are too. DK should certainly be a Bill right now. I'm not here to defend Beane, depending on how this season turns out I could be swayed towards firing him.  At the same time, people posting emotionally when their is a solid chunk of really good context, soooooo close to OP's.  It's intentionally/unintentionally ignorant, hitting send on posts like that ^^^

Clearly Chase was not available. But the point is Beane is not even looking for a poor man's version of Chase. He has chosen to go the route of gadget pieces, thinking you can combine 4 guys abilities into one dominant WR profile. I think this approach is wrong. I would have preferred to go for guys like Pickens, D Adams, DK Metcalf, etc. that have shown they can be #1's. Heck there are a handful of guys in the top 20 rec yards that were all available - Pickens, Adams, Allen, Diggs. Beane chose Palmer and Moore. He had a similar mindset in the most obvious WR drafter, instead of moving up for a clear #1 in Thomas, he moved back for Coleman. It has been just a very risk averse approach to the position yet all the small bets have added up in resources used. 

[BillsShredder83]

On 10/18/2025 at 9:33 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Virgil, you're usually a really strong poster, but this post is just awful.

 

Just addressing these first few line I found several misguided

 

We have four starters, not three from the last three drafts. Coleman, Bishop, Kincaid and Torrence. Hell, Hawes has started two of the last three games. And expecting starters from the first year particularly on a loaded roster this early in the season goes against history, especially with McDermott at coach. Would Hairston have started sometime this year, without the injury? Very very likely, and still possible.

 

Plus you've got several guys contributing a lot of snaps already, as platoon players or in sub-packages.

Levy had the same philosophy. It's hard to start early on a good roster.

 

You claim to have bolded the guys who've contributed in a meaningful way. Seriously? You didn't bold Coleman, Hawes, Bishop, Ray Davies or Dorian Williams, who's started five games and played 64% of snaps. You didn't bold Taron Johnson. I mean ...

 

 

 

 

Or maybe that they could have found ways to handle that situation by the time Cook was gone in 2026.

 

Or maybe they thought that - and I grant this thought is way way out there - Cook might end up signing a deal that was closer to what the Bills thought was reasonable than the $15M per year Cook had publicly asked for.

 

On 10/18/2025 at 9:50 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Trusting you on this .... No trading partner came through. Hmmm. Wonder why that was. 

 

Couldn't have been that maybe nobody else wanted to give him $15M/year either, could it?

 

He may turn out to be worth $15M/year. But he hadn't proven it at the time. He had legitimate blocking issues and he hadn't put up a lot of snaps. Could he now put up a ton of snaps and prove that he could have been doing it from day one? That's one possibility. Or he could wear down if they use him that much, that's another. And there are many more.

 

One reason that GMs give players permission to seek out a trade is that they think this will give the player a realistic look at what his market is. And Cook didn't just play out his contract, he signed a deal with the Bills. Again, hmmmm.

 

There's more than one way to look at that.

 

 

 

I dont have much to add here, but just wanted to say Great posts, and show the other side of the coin, that not many will bring up or acknowledge here (at least, understandably so, right now they won't).

 

Personally, I have been in support of Beane, while admitting plenty of disappointment over, moves or lack thereof, over the last 2 years.  When I first opened this thread, I was 100% ready to move on from Beane.  @Virgil Im a "fan" of yours, not only for hard work/thoughtful quality threads and responses you put out at the board.... and in no way did I think OP was intended to be misleading or crusading or anything like that.  But I'd imagine you feel at least a biiiiiit different after having seen some context in the responses.  I literally, just wanted to point out how things are not black/white, even when they may seem that way.

 

Between the response showing Chiefs/Ravens by comparison, I know I feel quite differently than I did at first.  Going in and looking at the '24 Draft as a whole, it's been a very unimpressive draft as a whole.  We can all agree the ProBowl isnt some elite or impossible feat.  2024 draft had 0 ProBowler's past the 23rd overall pick.  While there are certainly some good players in there, even a quick glance at that class will leave most realizing it was slim pickings.

 

Again coming back to this thought "point out how things are not black/white, even when they may seem that way".... another one of my fav posters (username escapes me, I recognize pictures best here) is the one about 'we gave permission to Cook to seek a trade'... I was fired up, trying to imagine our current situation minus Cook now.

 

But the two posts quoted above, bring some very good context. And again, certainly would not state he was trying to mislead, as hes likely the most 'connected' poster here.  But just a great reminder that the things we're PO'd about, can be looked at it a completely different light and make a ton of sense.  Maybe Beane was trying to show Cook his real value, as a courtesy like 'hey, if that was going right, we'd be the first one to give that to you... but thats not your market'.

 

Id imagine even Cook went through same emotions "trade me?!? $15M, I'll show you".... how would a player know the actual market.  Kind of a genius move to let Cook go do that if you're confident in your position.... not only is that great leverage to get a deal done, but its a helluva de-escalation tactic with a guy you want to keep, and make sure that he isn't disgruntled. 

 

A different GM and in the same scenario (wanting to retain their guy) could've landed on a 1 year deal at the same dollar amount.... but now they have a disgruntled player who believes he IS being ripped off for the entire year.  If Beane IS wrong, he gets additional info to make his decision... hell, maybe somebody wants to pay him $20M and send us a boatload of picks (unlikely, but not the point).

 

Beane still has a ton to prove, and Im firmly on the hot seat with him, pending how this season finishes out.  Just wanted to share what I noticed that even in my head I flip-flopped, and realized most likely, neither position was correct about the drafts or Cook or FA, but likely somewhere in the middle. Ohhh, And don't let the folks posting in here who scrolled to the bottom of page 1, clicked post, and then went to the next thread sway your opinion either LOL cause they're in here!

 

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