Good, detailed analysis of Bills’ third down problems vs Miami (The Athletic)

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

Tre made about exactly as many good impactful plays as he did poor plays. 

 

- On the plus side he had 2 very nice pass breakups and 2 nice run fits for no gain.

- On the minus side he whiffed on the blitz and had 3 single coverage moments (no help over top on 2, crosser on one) where he couldn't keep up enough to make the play.

 

Tre was up and down. About what most teams get out of their #2 corner.

 

 

It also was one of the worst matchups for an older Tre White. Miami's WR duo of Hill and Waddle are super good and super fast. Tre probably at this point could be hidden against one fast dynamic WR but it is going to be harder to keep him less exposed against two. The Bills don't really play a team with that dynamic pair of speed WR's until they play The Bengals so that's less of an issue going forward before this team could maybe get Mad Max back...

22 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I honestly think the Bills kicked out on schedule in that the young guys have time to get their feet under them with the suspensions and then the vets back for when things tighten up.

 

Cover One pointed out some of Walkers hiccups but the potential is still incredible

 

I would much rather these young guys get in their lumps now so that by the time the playoffs roll around they have a full year of experience under their belts and can tighten up and improve. 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I can live with player mistakes that lead to 3rd down conversions. I can't live with the coaching mistakes though. There's too much experience in the defensive coaching staff including our head coach for that to ever be the primary problem on a play.

 

Joe points out the 4th down conversion where we had Tre manned up on Waddle with no blitz called. That is a coaching failure, made it way too easy for Miami to execute. This drive ends in a TD.

 

The end of half TD I put entirely on coaching as well. On 3rd and 3 from our 10 Tyreek Hill is lined up in the backfield which should be an immediate red flag; instead nobody on defense pays any attention to him at all and Tua easily hits him for the 1st down. On the very next play Tre is playing outside leverage on Waddle with no inside help. Easy pitch and catch, TD.

 

So that is 14 points directly attributed to defensive coaching failures. If you call a blitz and the offense beats it, you tip your cap and move on. But you can't have plays where the play call is totally wrong for the situation, or hanging certain players out to dry. And it's not just a one game problem, it's a continuation of a trend from last year. That makes me less receptive to the idea that we can just execuse it away as one bad game. They gotta get it figured out.

 

I agree there was some bad playcalling on 3rd and 4th down that played a part. Though I am not as forgiving of blitzes that get beat as you. One of the worst 3rd down calls was a blitz. It was a terrible idea.

[corta765]

7 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think he’s been pretty good tbh he is a bit athletically limited though for sure…we tend to gloss over the positive plays to focus on the negative and tre is the best example of that.

 

he’s a really good depth corner for some spot starts at this stage but he’s forced into being an everyday cb2 role indefinitely right now which he’s a little bit better than ok at to my eye. Sure beats Elam getting forced into the lineup though 😂

 

I could see strong pushing Tre down the depth chart further with more experience but Tre knows the system well in the short term 

 

Honestly I think down the road with the youngsters they have at CB I can see them cutting Tre. He is just not the guy he was, he is serviceable as a CB 4/5 otherwise his flaws show and I would rather some of these young guys get the reps and we see what potential they have. Tre forever makes me sad because he was a HOF caliber player who got years cut off because of freak injuries and that truly sucks.

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree there was some bad playcalling on 3rd and 4th down that played a part. Though I am not as forgiving of blitzes that get beat as you. One of the worst 3rd down calls was a blitz. It was a terrible idea.

 

Do you mean the CB blitz that Tre whiffed on? I actually liked that play call. If there's anything to critique you probably want Benford to be the one blitzing there, Tre isn't athletic enough to make that play as we saw.

[ColoradoBills]

For numerous reasons the D has a lot of young guys playing a significant number of snaps.

Something many on this board have been harping about for years.

 

Right now, there is some pain because of it.  If it ends up growing pain, everything later in the year will be much better.

If these young guys don't improve.............not so much.

 

Right now, with all things considered, I'm pretty excited to see how the D plays the 2nd half of the season.

[PoundingDog]

How many young guys are playing now?

 

On offense it is Hawes, which is a revelation and we secretly hope can be better than both Kincaid and Knox down the road.

 

On defense, it is the rotation of Sanders and Walker, and 2nd year guy Bishop. My question is if we had started Strong for all 3 games, would the result be the same for the Bills, i.e. 3-0?  

[Brand J]

Here’s what I’d like to know: player for player, is the Browns #1 defense head and shoulders above the Bills in terms of personnel? It doesn’t seem like it.

[RyanC883]

While this is encouraging, it also seems like fluff given the year over year 3rd down struggles.  If this continues I’d expect a vet DT to be added at some point.  Perhaps a LB as well.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Do you mean the CB blitz that Tre whiffed on? I actually liked that play call. If there's anything to critique you probably want Benford to be the one blitzing there, Tre isn't athletic enough to make that play as we saw.

 

No not that one. There was a blitz off the right edge, zone coverage behind. 2nd half.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

 

I would much rather these young guys get in their lumps now so that by the time the playoffs roll around they have a full year of experience under their belts and can tighten up and improve. 

Pretty much. the Eagles threw the DBs they drafted to the wolves and come the SB they were getting pick sixes on Mahomes

[Allen2Moulds]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Do you mean the CB blitz that Tre whiffed on? I actually liked that play call. If there's anything to critique you probably want Benford to be the one blitzing there, Tre isn't athletic enough to make that play as we saw.

I just think that if Tre isn't athletic enough for Tua, then he probably shouldn't be a starting corner for this defense.  Our defense will never get over the hump, if we're unable to inject some speed and youth.  But I also do agree with others on here, that say that play calling has also been an issue.  As great of a position coach that Babich was, it has yet to translate as the DC.  If we are still having similar struggles towards the back half of the season, McDermott needs to take over play calling duties.  He did it at one point with Leslie, and the defense looked instantly different/better.  Contrary to belief, I don't think McDermott likes to micromanage. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

How many young guys are playing now?

 

On offense it is Hawes, which is a revelation and we secretly hope can be better than both Kincaid and Knox down the road.

 

On defense, it is the rotation of Sanders and Walker, and 2nd year guy Bishop. My question is if we had started Strong for all 3 games, would the result be the same for the Bills, i.e. 3-0?  

 

Add in Logue (who played more than walker) and Solomon.