Early returns on 2024 Draft is awful

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

Looked like cover 1 robber to me.  It was def MoFC.  If it was Cover 3 would you expect the outside CBs to be getting more depth and be trying to identify threats?  Dane Jackson slow plays the release of the WR at the bottom of the screen.  Maybe im missing it.

 

 

 

No I think you are right it was man. I take it back. In my defense it was 1.30am here 😅

[The 9 Isles]

Beane should just let ChatGPT pick the first three rounds every year, I bet it would have resulted in a stronger draft class over his tenure. 

[MikePJ76]

Dewayne Carter blowing up a screen last night.  Last week this was a problem and carter and hoecht recognized it right away after winning at the line of scrimmage.

 

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No I think you are right it was man. I take it back. In my defense it was 1.30am here 😅

In your defense youre an awesome poster and have so many good contributions.  No sweat.

[MikePJ76]

Here is the Bishop play in all 22.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

yea I guess he wasn't in man or maybe he was, the wr switched and he was caught chasing.  I really don't think they are going to put him in that situation much in the regular season.  

 

I will make a video of the play from the all 22 quick.

 

No I think he was. My bad.

 

Regardless he didn't lose on the play because he just got out "athleticismed" he got beat mentally before he got beat physically.

[MikePJ76]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No I think he was. My bad.

 

Regardless he didn't lose on the play because he just got out "athleticismed" he got beat mentally before he got beat physically.

Sure looks like he got picked naturally when the wr switched, then the wr beat him inside and then hamlin cuts him off when he dives to make an attempt at the tackle.

 

 

[Gugny]

Day drinking. 
 

Yeah. 

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Sure looks like he got picked naturally when the wr switched, then the wr beat him inside and then hamlin cuts him off when he dives to make an attempt at the tackle.

 

 

I dont see much of a pick.  I think he jumped outside too quick and then wasnt ready for the inside move and got out of phase.  Its a sorta tough assignment being off ball man coverage on a WR.  he failed at it and hopefully grows. 

[Mat68]

7 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Here is the Bishop play in all 22.

 

 

Andresson is in no mans land.  

[MikePJ76]

Bishop seemed to be ok in man to man here with Odunze.

 

 

[warrior9]

9 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

I dont see much of a pick.  I think he jumped outside too quick and then wasnt ready for the inside move and got out of phase.  Its a sorta tough assignment being off ball man coverage on a WR.  he failed at it and hopefully grows. 

Yeah, this. Bishop starts 2 yards inside him, sprints to about 2 yards OUTSIDE of him. Leverage was absolutely awful. 

 

It's hard to really know what the issue is here:

 

1) This seems like basic level stuff for pro DBs. 

2) Hopefully our safeties aren't asked to run a lot of man at the LOS against slot corners

3) He has missed significant time

4) We want these mistakes made in pre-season but this, again, seems like basic leverage concept. 

5) Is the game too fast for him? 

6) Are we over reacting to 1 pre season play? 

Edited August 18 by warrior9

[YattaOkasan]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Andresson is in no mans land.  

Yeah thats why i think cover 1 robber.  just no crossers which is sorta surprising considering how much we struggled against mesh in man last year.  

 

EDIT: Rewatch and yeah I really think Andreessen needs to get more depth.  Bishop gets beat but there are two routes behind Andreessen that you would want him to sink towards (crosser and this seam).  After he pulls up on the run fake he should drop faster (Pretty sure this is the correct teach).  I also say this cause he was getting to far forward on a lot of plays in this game.  Thats often a tough challenge for younger players (see Dorian williams year 1).    

2 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Yeah, this. Bishop starts 2 yards inside him, sprints to about 2 yards OUTSIDE of him. Leverage was absolutely awful. 

 

It's hard to really know what the issue is here:

 

1) This seems like basic level stuff for pro DBs. 

2) Hopefully our safeties aren't asked to run a lot of man at the LOS against slot corners

3) He has missed significant time

4) We want these mistakes made in pre-season but this, again, seems like basic leverage concept. 

5) Is the game too fast for him? 

6) Are we over reacting to 1 pre season plaY? 

Agree its a bit concerning.  He plays the leverage right if im understanding (wants to stay outside), but yeah way over does it and then the seam route is very open between Adnreesen and Hamlin.  If he stays in phase better or Andreesen can read it better it could be a very different result.  

Edited August 18 by YattaOkasan

[MPL]

33 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Anyone who tries to judge a draft class less than 3 full seasons under their belt probably has an agenda. 

Spencer Brown looked pretty bad after his first season.

Rousseau didn't look like anything special after one season.

We all thought Allen would take a huge step forward in year 2 but it definitely wasn't a sure thing.

Terrel Bernard looked lost his first season.

Shakir could barely get on the field due to (reported) problems remembering the playbook his first season.

 

I don't know how you can confidently judge any NFL draft pick after a single season, especially given how the Bills loved to draft developmental guys far from their ceiling.

 

 

Don't forget that Gabe Davis was the future after his first season!

4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Agree its a bit concerning.  He plays the leverage right if im understanding (wants to stay outside), but yeah way over does it and then the seam route is very open between Adnreesen and Hamlin.  If he stays in phase better or Andreesen can read it better it could be a very different result.  

Andreesen does not get deep enough in coverage, and he is consistent about not getting deep enough. They even showed him getting chewed out on Hard Knocks because of it. This puts a lot of stress on the safeties and I do believe that this was a big reason that the safety play looked exceptionally shaky last night. Just like I try to not take too much stock in what WRs look like when Mike White is throwing the ball, I try to take into consideration that Bishop and Hamlin are NEVER going to be on the field with the front 7 that was out there last night. 

[billsfan89]

36 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Anyone who tries to judge a draft class less than 3 full seasons under their belt probably has an agenda. 

Spencer Brown looked pretty bad after his first season.

Rousseau didn't look like anything special after one season.

We all thought Allen would take a huge step forward in year 2 but it definitely wasn't a sure thing.

Terrel Bernard looked lost his first season.

Shakir could barely get on the field due to (reported) problems remembering the playbook his first season.

 

I don't know how you can confidently judge any NFL draft pick after a single season, especially given how the Bills loved to draft developmental guys far from their ceiling.

 

 

 

Spencer Brown actually looked good in year 1, he was a bit up and down but in 2021 he plugged and played decently. It was 2022 where he had the off-season back surgery and he was one of the worst starting RT's in the league that year. All agreed on the other ones these players rarely have straight up trajectories. You probably need to see a player for 3 full seasons before you really have a good understanding of their NFL careers. And even then guys do "figure it out" in year 4 and beyond. 

[YattaOkasan]

7 minutes ago, MPL said:

Don't forget that Gabe Davis was the future after his first season!

Andreesen does not get deep enough in coverage, and he is consistent about not getting deep enough. They even showed him getting chewed out on Hard Knocks because of it. This puts a lot of stress on the safeties and I do believe that this was a big reason that the safety play looked exceptionally shaky last night. Just like I try to not take too much stock in what WRs look like when Mike White is throwing the ball, I try to take into consideration that Bishop and Hamlin are NEVER going to be on the field with the front 7 that was out there last night. 

Would have liked to see Bishop with Shaq in front of him actually.  I know why they played andreessen instead but I think that would have produced better results as Shaq is better in coverage and has seen more.  With Andreessen's mindset Im sure he will go through this tape a million times to try and get better.  Will be interesting to see if he can put it into action while still being a good downhill player in the run that got us so excited.  

[Shortchaz]

33 minutes ago, The 9 Isles said:

Beane should just let ChatGPT pick the first three rounds every year, I bet it would have resulted in a stronger draft class over his tenure. 

Probably. The organization has placed a high value on character (for better or worse) and it impacts our overall talent. 
 

it’s a big picture perspective and I can appreciate it, but it’s not without its frustrations. 

[billsfan89]

5 minutes ago, MPL said:

Don't forget that Gabe Davis was the future after his first season!

Andreesen does not get deep enough in coverage, and he is consistent about not getting deep enough. They even showed him getting chewed out on Hard Knocks because of it. This puts a lot of stress on the safeties and I do believe that this was a big reason that the safety play looked exceptionally shaky last night. Just like I try to not take too much stock in what WRs look like when Mike White is throwing the ball, I try to take into consideration that Bishop and Hamlin are NEVER going to be on the field with the front 7 that was out there last night. 

 

Andreesen needs a lot of work as a LB, he's not tragic but he's very smart to have leaned into playing Special Teams capably. It's also one of the reasons Hamlin is on the roster as he is a willing and positive special teams player as well as a capable backup. I think Andreesen is gonna be LB5/6 which is where you are OK with having someone whose maybe just a ST Ace with some upside to being a better backup. But he clearly needs another season of development before he can be counted on as a backup LB. Bills are lucky to have Williams and Shaq ahead of him so it is less likely he sees meaningful action. 

[warrior9]

14 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yeah thats why i think cover 1 robber.  just no crossers which is sorta surprising considering how much we struggled against mesh in man last year.  

 

EDIT: Rewatch and yeah I really think Andreessen needs to get more depth.  Bishop gets beat but there are two routes behind Andreessen that you would want him to sink towards (crosser and this seam).  After he pulls up on the run fake he should drop faster (Pretty sure this is the correct teach).  I also say this cause he was getting to far forward on a lot of plays in this game.  Thats often a tough challenge for younger players (see Dorian williams year 1).    

Agree its a bit concerning.  He plays the leverage right if im understanding (wants to stay outside), but yeah way over does it and then the seam route is very open between Adnreesen and Hamlin.  If he stays in phase better or Andreesen can read it better it could be a very different result.  

Why would you want to stay outside? In man, inside leverage to the boundary is very standard. In man, he has no help inside and his only help is the boundary,

[Dillenger4]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

Keon and Davis look to be nice additions to the roster we will see if they can ascend beyond role players but I think the early returns on them are thus far positive. Grable and Solomon also have flashed as later round pick depth finds, SVPG was also looking like a nice depth player but injury has derailed his year 2 thus far. The draft class however is hinging on Carter/Bishop the team is going to need one of those players to make an impact on the defense. If Keon is a solid WR2, Davis a nice RB2, Bishop is a starter at safety, and Solomon, SVPG, and Grable are nice depth players the draft class is a solid piece of business. 

BOOM. (mic drop)