McDermott not in Top 10 of NFL coaches per PFF.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The 2017 Bills were as boring, agreed. They had Tyrod Taylor. Nobody takes the ball out of his QBs hands as much as Jim Harbaugh even when is QB is good. He could have Dan Marino and only pass it 11 times a game. Dinosaur. 

What good QBs has he taken the ball out of their hands though?

 

Herbert is the only one, and seeing as Herby is addicted to playoff meltdowns, it doesn’t seem like a bad strategy.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No.  Is it possible?  Sure - is it assured, not at all.  

 

The only year Sean won a SB or even reached one was when the Saints were riding an emotional high from the Katrina disaster and their defense was actually making plays.  Outside that, he struggled to even consistently make the playoffs with Prime Brees, Kamara, Graham, Thomas, Colston, and a load of other offensive firepower and talent through the years.  The amount of high end or elite weapons Payton had compared to the Bills is a wide gap, and yet Sean and all his offensive genius missed the playoffs several times or got bounced early.

 

Sean missed the playoffs 6 times with Brees in his 15 seasons there (16 but he was suspended 1 in 2012).  

In half the seasons in NO that he coached (not counting the 2012 suspended season) he won single digit games of 9 or less.  

He missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons with prime Brees.

 

Again, the bulk of Seans time there included an all time Great in Brees in his prime and a lot of elite weapons around him yet the results were not always stellar and even in their best seasons were losing in the first or 2nd round, including winning 11 games and losing in the first round to Seattle who got in with a losing record with only 7 wins.  

 

So he isn't the fix it all savior I think some see him as.  If it wasn't for the one SB win, his overall record would be much less impressive and quite honestly, he probably wouldn't have kept his job after 2012 suspension and would have also probably been fired sometime during the stretch where he missed the playoffs 3 straight years with prime Brees.  Imagine McD missing the playoffs 3 straight years with Allen.  

 

 

 

I was in New Orleans for the Payton years. I know those teams better than most. The thought that Sean Payton would have been fired back then is BEYOND absurd if you understood the dynamics of the ownership/leadership of the Saints/Pelicans. Loomis/Lauscha/Payton were/are Gail’s entire leadership team. They are way closer to family than to employees. They didn’t fire him when his wife left him and moved to Dallas. He commuted to New Orleans after he knocked up the cheerleader. Payton isn’t a good guy but he is miles better as a football coach than McDermott. That’s why he’s 2 on this list and McDermott isn’t in the top 10. Payton elevates the talent on his teams. Those Saints teams weren’t as talented as some are making them out to be. 
 

They didn’t go to the Super Bowl after Katrina. They went to the NFC Championship and lost to the Bears. He won the Super Bowl after 2009. They would have won again if not for the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole). 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Payton is a very good coach too. But his playoff record since he won his Superbowl is atrocious. Not just a slight underachievement. If McDermott had lost to the teams and QBs Payton lost to with Drew Brees under centre he'd already have been fired IMO. 

 

I get the lightening in a bottle genius gameplan theory. Because Payton is capable of that, no doubt. But my word he loses some games you just cannot lose in the post season. I think McDermott has one of those - 13 seconds. 

IMO, going 0-4 vs the same HC/QB who aren’t going anywhere anytime soon is just as unacceptable as losing to Case Keenum. 

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I was in New Orleans for the Payton years. I know those teams better than most. The thought that Sean Payton would have been fired back then is BEYOND absurd if you understood the dynamics of the ownership/leadership of the Saints/Pelicans. Loomis/Lauscha/Payton were/are Gail’s entire leadership team. They are way closer to family than to employees. They didn’t fire him when his wife left him and moved to Dallas. He commuted to New Orleans after he knocked up the cheerleader. Payton isn’t a good guy but he is miles better as a football coach than McDermott. That’s why he’s 2 on this list and McDermott isn’t in the top 10. Payton elevates the talent on his teams. Those Saints teams weren’t as talented as some are making them out to be. 
 

They didn’t go to the Super Bowl after Katrina. They went to the NFC Championship and lost to the Bears. He won the Super Bowl after 2009. They would have won again if not for the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole). 

It’s hyperbole that they would’ve won the SB. They would’ve gone to the SB.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Payton is a very good coach too. But his playoff record since he won his Superbowl is atrocious. Not just a slight underachievement. If McDermott had lost to the teams and QBs Payton lost to with Drew Brees under centre he'd already have been fired IMO. 

 

I get the lightening in a bottle genius gameplan theory. Because Payton is capable of that, no doubt. But my word he loses some games you just cannot lose in the post season. I think McDermott has one of those - 13 seconds. 

I’d rather have lost a game, like Baltimore last year, in exchange for a Super Bowl title 13 seconds year. Payton has proven that he can win the big one. McDermott has not proven that.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Last year's offensive scheme was about making Allen's play more boring, no? I don't mean that in a bad way. Raising the floor was an admirable goal and the results spoke for themselves. I think Justin Herbert's problem is Justin Herbert. He is missing that spark of pure will that defines the top 4 QBs. That mentality in critical moments that he will make it happen all on his own if he has to. I don't think Harbaugh took that spark out of him, he just never had it to begin with. What Harbaugh did last year is make the best out of a horrid group of skill players and a QB that isn't uniquely talented enough to overcome it.

 

They made the offense more efficient. But this is Sean McDermott who when asked about the Allen hurdles has said "I love it man" - direct quote. And when still growing Allen had his mid season funk in 2019 called him in after the Browns debacle and encouraged him to cut loose. I think his track record is of letting Josh be Josh. 

 

And I 100% disagree on Herbert. I think he has some issues, but spark isn't one of them. His issues are the inexplicable 3rd quarter lulls and the bonehead mistakes. Jim Harbaugh wants to play 1970s football out of principle. And his teams will ALWAYS play that way. 

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d rather have lost a game, like Baltimore last year, in exchange for a Super Bowl title 13 seconds year. Payton has proven that he can win the big one. McDermott has not proven that.

 

I get that. But that proof is a hell of a long time ago. And he hasn't been losing to Lamar Jackson types since then. If only he had. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

IMO, going 0-4 vs the same HC/QB who aren’t going anywhere anytime soon is just as unacceptable as losing to Case Keenum. 

It’s hyperbole that they would’ve won the SB. They would’ve gone to the SB.

They would have kicked like a 30 yarder to go to the Super Bowl. I think that they would have rolled that Pats team. That was the worst Super Bowl in history. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They would have kicked like a 30 yarder to go to the Super Bowl. I think that they would have rolled that Pats team. That was the worst Super Bowl in history. 

I mean maybe. 
 

It wouldn’t be the first time BB schooled another great coach in the SB. McVay still has nightmares.

 

Those 2018-19 Pats team were weaker offensively but had a truly elite defense. The next season (2019) they were first in basically everything with nearly the exact same group. 

[Kirby Jackson]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I get that. But that proof is a hell of a long time ago. And he hasn't been losing to Lamar Jackson types since then. If only he had. 

In Josh Allen’s prime, Super Bowls are all that matter. I’m not wowed by Wild Card wins or Divisional Round wins. That’s not the NFL. This is a ring culture. Sean Payton has proven that he can win.

Edited 5 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I agree somewhat but, the Saints won in 2009 (Katrina was in 2006) and they never missed the playoffs with Brees after drafting Kamara (the 2017 Saints draft is like an All-Time class though, probably one of the best in their franchise history).

 

Dont get me wrong, I still think hes a very good coach, just more talking about how a SB win masks a lot of other things that wouldn't be so overlooked without the SB win.  And nothing I am presenting is to take away from his SB win either, just more pointing out how different things look once you win one.  Most coaches don't survive either the suspension or the 3 years straight missing the playoffs with a QB like Brees - unless they have that SB check mark on their resume.  And a lot of coaches also wouldn't survive the poor playoff record outside the SB season either with prime Brees, Kamara, etc either.  

 

So, I think he is just being over valued here a little bit due to the one major achievement in one of his 15 seasons as the Saints HC.  And as I said before too, if McD wins one say this season, all of his metrics as a HC will be better than Seans - the thing he lacks is the one ring.  And don't get me wrong, that is a BIG lack, so McD has to go get that done and if he doesn't this season, then consideration for a change will be warranted.  

[BigAl2526]

55 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I think Jim Harbaugh is a very good coach. He took the 49ers to the Super Bowl. He won a national championship at Michigan. In his first year as the Chargers HC, he made the playoffs. He wins wherever he goes.

I agree, he is a very good coach, but he is far removed from his days with the 49ers and college football is not the NFL. Making the playoffs with the Chargers confirms his coaching ability, but it's not the same as making the playoffs year after year like a certain other coach has done.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

In Josh Allen’s prime, Super Bowls are all that matter. I’m not wowed by Wild Card wins or Divisional Round wins. That’s not the NFL. This is a ring culture. Sean Payton has proven that he can win.

 

A long time ago. 

 

I get it you are banking on him having a bit of genius and getting you over the line once. He might have done. It's possible. But his recent playoff record has to be considered in deciding how likely it is IMO.

[Alphadawg7]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I was in New Orleans for the Payton years. I know those teams better than most. The thought that Sean Payton would have been fired back then is BEYOND absurd if you understood the dynamics of the ownership/leadership of the Saints/Pelicans. Loomis/Lauscha/Payton were/are Gail’s entire leadership team. They are way closer to family than to employees. They didn’t fire him when his wife left him and moved to Dallas. He commuted to New Orleans after he knocked up the cheerleader. Payton isn’t a good guy but he is miles better as a football coach than McDermott. That’s why he’s 2 on this list and McDermott isn’t in the top 10. Payton elevates the talent on his teams. Those Saints teams weren’t as talented as some are making them out to be. 

Where did I say he should have been fired?  I said without a SB win that missing the playoffs 3 straight years also following being suspended a season is not something many coaches survive WITHOUT the SB win on the resume.  
 

McD's record is better by most measures except the SB win - yet there is no way McD survives getting suspended a season and then missing playoffs 3 straight years with McD.  

 

And to say he is miles better because of some list is silly.  There is no way Tomlin and Stefanski are better HC's than McD and yet they are on this list for example.  These lists are not in anyway proof of anything other than a list one person made and published.  

 

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They didn’t go to the Super Bowl after Katrina. They went to the NFC Championship and lost to the Bears. He won the Super Bowl after 2009. They would have won again if not for the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole). 

 

So you are giving Sean credit for a 2nd SB win, in which he didn't even reach, because he got a bad call in the playoffs?  So why are you not giving McD a theoretical SB win then after the Refs stole the game this year first not giving Kincaid the first down on 2nd down when he was nearly a yard past the FD marker and then again not giving Josh the first on 4th down when he was clearly there?  That was at least an 11 point, maybe a 15 point swing in the 4th quarter of a game we were up 1 with.  Chiefs got the ball back and scored plus a 2 point conversion to go up 7 when we should have had the first (twice) and were already in FG range and yet would have had a first and still a chance to score a TD as well.  

 

So sorry - to say Sean would have had another is 100% hyperbole as they not only didn't win the game they were in, you don't know if they would even win the next game or not.  And given they were in a game where 1 call could swing it shows they were not so dominant that you can just give them a "gimme" on any other games after that.  

 

I get you are a Sean fan, nothing wrong with that.  But I don't agree there is this massive gap between Sean and McD, and again, if McD wins a SB, his resume will be better than Seans by most metrics, and will have done it with less to work with around Allen.  You spend every offseason criticizing the weapons around Allen, meanwhile Brees had Colston, Graham, Kamara, Thomas, etc and they still won single digits 7 times, had plenty of bad playoff exits, and missed the playoffs 6 times.  

Edited 5 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A long time ago. 

 

I get it you are banking on him having a bit of genius and getting you over the line once. He might have done. It's possible. But his recent playoff record has to be considered in deciding how likely it is IMO.

Let’s play a game. Who is more likely to beat the Chiefs in 2025 and win the Super Bowl with the Bills roster?

 

McDermott or Payton?

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

16 hours ago, 14774 said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-top-returning-head-coaches-2025

 

Agree or disagree? He has his faults, but I think he fits in the Top 10 somewhere. 

 

It's honestly not that bad of a list. I'd probably slide Payton down to 7th and bump the guys currently ranked 3-7 up 1 spot. 

 

The 9 and 10 spots are also up for grabs. Campbell is pretty shaky only having 2 good seasons, and Stefanski is even worse. 

 

I'd consider Mcdermott, O'Connell, or Lafleur in those spots. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Let’s play a game. Who is more likely to beat the Chiefs in 2025 and win the Super Bowl with the Bills roster?

 

McDermott or Payton?

 

I will play - McD - No other HC has more wins against Cheifs than McD.  Paytons defenses have been worse than McD's and his playoff record and let downs are worse than McD's.

 

So I will take McD over Sean to beat KC - and quite honestly, I think we will if we see them in the playoffs this year, but the team that concerns me more this season though is the Ravens.  They are in tact and had a strong draft.  They will be very tough again and our ability to get past them will come down to how defense improves between our FA and Rookie additions.  

Edited 5 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, balln said:

But history tells us that no coach /qb combo this long together will win a Super Bowl. So we’re waiting for improbability in my view. That’s why I was for moving on from him after :13 seconds 

If I'm being honest. I feel like this is how it will play out with this coach and team. At the same time there are worse coaches out there and that's what will always keep him here....fear of getting a worse coach. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

It's honestly not that bad of a list. I'd probably slide Payton down to 7th and bump the guys currently ranked 3-7 up 1 spot. 

 

The 9 and 10 spots are also up for grabs. Campbell is pretty shaky only having 2 good seasons, and Stefanski is even worse. 

 

I'd consider Mcdermott, O'Connell, or Lafleur in those spots. 

 

Campbell should either not be on the list or be on there but below McD.  I love Campbell, but make not mistake about it - he has cost them playoff losses and key losses in regular season over his stubborn decisions.  What he did vs the Cowboys with the #1 seed on the line is one of the single stupidest decisions I have ever seen in a HC.  He also had bad end game decisions against the Bills and in the playoffs too that led to losses.  I love his attitude, approach, brovado - but there is a time and place for it, and his in ability to control that and find that balance has cost the Lions seeding and playoff exits.  

 

That being said, if he can learn from that, he is on his way to being a great HC - like I said I am a fan of his though, just its not quite polished as it needs to have been yet.  

[ddaryl]

he has to get over the hump. He has Josh Allen as a QB, it is and will continue to be unforgivable if we don't get to the Dance and win it all.

[sunshynman]

52 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

OMG in what world are you living.   If McD won the superbowl they will name streets after him and he will coach here for life.

Most will. But some here will still say he's not a good coach. They will say he got lucky.

[Alphadawg7]

41 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I agree somewhat but, the Saints won in 2009 (Katrina was in 2006) and they never missed the playoffs with Brees after drafting Kamara (the 2017 Saints draft is like an All-Time class though, probably one of the best in their franchise history).

 

39 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They didn’t go to the Super Bowl after Katrina. They went to the NFC Championship and lost to the Bears. He won the Super Bowl after 2009. They would have won again if not for the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole). 

 

The 2009 season was absolutely fueled by the Katrina energy.  It was the first season they reopened the Superdome and it was a big emotional season on the backs of hope and rebuilding.  It was a major part of their story that year, especially in the playoffs where they were playing to win the first SB in team history at a time the region was rebuilding.