Pegula Divests from Knight Hawks after pulling out of Rochester Lease

[Augie]

16 hours ago, Einstein said:

PSE has always been a disaster - even when Kim was running the show. 

Remember that meeting where Kim told the staff that made $50k/year that their job was to maintain the Pegula's opulent lifestyle, and that they would be fired before the Pegula's would ever think about doing something like cancelling their vacation to Tahiti?
 

 

I remember that storyline, but I’m weak on the details. Exactly whose account of that meeting are we relying upon?  What was the context and what were the exact words? This always sounded a lot like sour grapes to me, with a disgruntled employee flavor to it. I’m not sure I’m buying the ugliest version of this tale. It’s made to sound as though they look down on the staff with disdain, and I don’t think that is the case. 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I remember that storyline, but I’m weak on the details. Exactly whose account of that meeting are we relying upon?  What was the context and what were the exact words? This always sounded a lot like sour grapes to me, with a disgruntled employee flavor to it. I’m not sure I’m buying the ugliest version of this tale. It’s made to sound as though they look down on the staff with disdain, and I don’t think that is the case. 

 

I think Einstein is being hyperbolic.

 

But I had a number of friends in the building at the time, there was in fact a slide, that Kim herself presented, that listed bluntly that one of the core pillars of PSE was "maintain family lifestyle".

 

PSE used to share the building with Labatt.

 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I think Einstein is being hyperbolic.

 

But I had a number of friends in the building at the time, there was in fact a slide, that Kim herself presented, that listed bluntly that one of the core pillars of PSE was "maintain family lifestyle".

 

PSE used to share the building with Labatt.

 

 

Again, just to be fair, I’d like to know the context and the exact wording here. I don’t blame them for acknowledging all their priorities, and in fact appreciate the full disclosure and transparency. But the key here just may be in the details, and we are thinking there. I think it took a life of its own, as was demonstrated above by Einstein. I’d just like to know more about it. A lot of things are easy to twist around to suit your point of view. What else was said? 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I remember that storyline, but I’m weak on the details. Exactly whose account of that meeting are we relying upon?  What was the context and what were the exact words? This always sounded a lot like sour grapes to me, with a disgruntled employee flavor to it. I’m not sure I’m buying the ugliest version of this tale. It’s made to sound as though they look down on the staff with disdain, and I don’t think that is the case. 

They had a PowerPoint slide to PSE employees talking about how they needed to maintain the Pegulas lifestyle, just after they told folks they weren’t going to get raises.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1758235/2020/04/20/as-pegulas-face-business-challenges-employees-describe-a-toxic-culture-at-pse/

[Augie]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

They had a PowerPoint slide to PSE employees talking about how they needed to maintain the Pegulas lifestyle, just after they told folks they weren’t going to get raises.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1758235/2020/04/20/as-pegulas-face-business-challenges-employees-describe-a-toxic-culture-at-pse/

 

Paywall. I’m just curious about context. People make this sound like this was done with some kind of callousness, or even vengeance. I don’t think that was the case. I don’t doubt for a second that that was a part of the message, but how was it shared and what nuances are we missing? 

 

EDIT: For the record, I don’t believe owning the Bills should negatively impact their lifestyle. I’m grateful for keeping the Bills in WNY, they shouldn’t be punished for it financially, regardless of how wealthy they are. 

 

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Edited 25 minutes ago by Augie

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Paywall. I’m just curious about context. People make this sound like this was done with some kind of callousness, or even vengeance. I don’t think that was the case. I don’t doubt for a second that that was a part of the message, but how as it shared and what nuances are we missing? 

It was done with callousness.

 

It was the start of COVID. PSE was losing money. Folks were afraid they were gonna lose their jobs. Kim held an organizational meeting. Talked about how they weren’t going to be getting raises. Said one of their organizational goals was to maintain the Pegulas’ lifestyle.

 

At its MOST CHARITABLE, it was incredibly tone deaf and ridiculous. 
 

“Over the course of a few days, Pegula addressed various departments via video conference from the family’s home office in Boca Raton, Fla. She explained raises and bonuses should not be expected aside for those, such as coaches and players, contracted to receive them. Budgets would be scrutinized.

Times ahead were going to be difficult, Pegula stressed, and sacrifices must be made. The tone underscored worries that had been circulating among workers at various Pegula Sports and Entertainment properties.”

 

“Kim Pegula’s video presentation included a rundown of organizational objectives. One particular slide, titled “Pegula Family Goals,” shook executives and lower-level employees alike. A handout version of the slide, obtained and verified by The Athletic, listed the Pegulas’ three chief objectives: win championships, sustainability, return on investment.

Pegula, current and former employees say, explained that return on investment included maintaining the family’s lifestyle”

 

Times are tough and some of you won’t get raises but we still need to keep our PJ is just horrific leadership at face value.

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Doc said:

He inherited all those people. It took him a minute to realize that he needed to let them all go.

 

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

if 3 years is now "a minute" then you're right again doc!

 

16 hours ago, Doc said:

Sure it was.  

 

 

 

No,  it was specifically in response to this typical doc nonsense.  you know this.  stop dragging Terry into your fumbles...

 

 

17 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

You dont hate anyone, does that include Doc?

 

does the cat hate the ball of string?

[JPL7]

Yes, I remember all of that. And that really is an idiot thing to say at any point in time, but especially during that chaotic period We all lived in. 
 

I guess my point is, what is the difference between having the various teams they own under PSE as opposed to owning them but not under one umbrella? 
 

For instance, I once worked for Kroenke sports and entertainment, which owns the Colorado avalanche (NHL), Denver Nuggets (NBA)  Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado mammoth (NLL), etc. What’s the benefit to having them under one umbrella, as opposed to not having them under one umbrella anymore, to go so far to dissolve PSE?! 

Edited 4 hours ago by JPL7

[BullBuchanan]

19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Did you miss this? https://www.wgrz.com/article/travel/canadian-tourism-down-in-buffalo/71-17a50600-9702-48ff-a65e-42e130778675#:~:text=BUFFALO%2C N.Y.,that we're watching."

What does that have to do with the Sabres "loss of Canadian fans"?

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

No,  it was specifically in response to this typical doc nonsense.  you know this.  stop dragging Terry into your fumbles...

Seven out of the last eight years of making the playoffs after 17 years of drought and you focus on the (in actuality) 2 years at the beginning…

 

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

does the cat hate the ball of string?

 

 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, JPL7 said:

Yes, I remember all of that. And that really is an idiot thing to say at any point in time, but especially during that chaotic period We all lived in. 
 

I guess my point is, what is the difference between having the various teams they own under PSE as opposed to owning them but not under one umbrella? 
 

For instance, I once worked for Kroenke sports and entertainment, which owns the Colorado avalanche (NHL), Denver Nuggets (NBA)  Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado mammoth (NLL), etc. What’s the benefit to having them under one umbrella, as opposed to not having them under one umbrella anymore, to go so far to dissolve PSE?! 

 

Not a lawyer. My my quick two cents is that One Buffalo becomes a marketing ploy under PSE. But as the Sabres spiral, including them isn't awesome. But additionally if they aren't all officially under one roof I think it makes it easier to divest from each one as needed.

 

I think that the dissolution of PSE also allowed the the opportunity to renegotiate any lease agreements. Pegula axed PSE, renegotiated the Blue Cross Arena lease, pulled out of operating the arena, and then Erie County bails on renewing the lease with Pegula and kicks it to the city after the org tried to make it seem like repairs fell on the county (they don't). Fast forward a few months to a year and Pegula has shortened the term on the Amerks lease at BCA from 8 to 5 years (after saying they wouldn't), officially listed the Knighthawks as for sale/stepping down as of 6/30, and we still have no resolution or even whispers on the KBC. 

Is there one thing that makes me think that Pegula is 100% selling the Sabres? No. But the above pattern seems to point in that direction, paired with the fact that he has been at or near bottom of the league in spending the last 5-6 years. At every step in the above the Pegula camp said "Don't worry, we aren't going to do the thing your worried about". Then they kept doing the thing, the walked out on the agreement, they shortened the Amerks lease, they officially listed the Knighthawks for sale after saying that they were comitted to Rochester.

 

I think what happens to the KBC will be telling. Anything around a 5 year agreement would give me pause, 10 would make me feel safer, but not 100% confident. For reference the last lease was 30 years and the new Bills stadium lease is also 30 years and the prior was 10. 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Not a lawyer. My my quick two cents is that One Buffalo becomes a marketing ploy under PSE. But as the Sabres spiral, including them isn't awesome. But additionally if they aren't all officially under one roof I think it makes it easier to divest from each one as needed.

 

I think that the dissolution of PSE also allowed the the opportunity to renegotiate any lease agreements. Pegula axed PSE, renegotiated the Blue Cross Arena lease, pulled out of operating the arena, and then Erie County bails on renewing the lease with Pegula and kicks it to the city after the org tried to make it seem like repairs fell on the county (they don't). Fast forward a few months to a year and Pegula has shortened the term on the Amerks lease at BCA from 8 to 5 years (after saying they wouldn't), officially listed the Knighthawks as for sale/stepping down as of 6/30, and we still have no resolution or even whispers on the KBC. 

Is there one thing that makes me think that Pegula is 100% selling the Sabres? No. But the above pattern seems to point in that direction, paired with the fact that he has been at or near bottom of the league in spending the last 5-6 years. At every step in the above the Pegula camp said "Don't worry, we aren't going to do the thing your worried about". Then they kept doing the thing, the walked out on the agreement, they shortened the Amerks lease, they officially listed the Knighthawks for sale after saying that they were comitted to Rochester.

 

I think what happens to the KBC will be telling. Anything around a 5 year agreement would give me pause, 10 would make me feel safer, but not 100% confident. For reference the last lease was 30 years and the new Bills stadium lease is also 30 years and the prior was 10. 

To echo that, a 5 year agreement would be basically a 5 alarm fire they are pending a sale for me lol. 

[SoCal Deek]

Lots of talk on here about the Sabres. Has anyone considered that Terry may be thinking he’s just not been that good at owning an NHL hockey team? Successful people like to be successful. They also don’t like losing. I’m guessing he’s spent more than a few nights trying to decide if he’s capable of putting a winning team on the ice. And if his conclusion is that he’s not, I wouldn’t be the least bit shocked if he says ‘I know the many things that I’m good at, and this definitely isn’t one of them’. 

[DaVinci]

I think the PSE idea was a bust from the start. Branching out in two many directions just hemorrhaging cash. I think this current maneuvering is a bid to focus on the core investments.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Lots of talk on here about the Sabres. Has anyone considered that Terry may be thinking he’s just not been that good at owning an NHL hockey team? Successful people like to be successful. They also don’t like losing. I’m guessing he’s spent more than a few nights trying to decide if he’s capable of putting a winning team on the ice. And if his conclusion is that he’s not, I wouldn’t be the least bit shocked if he says ‘I know the many things that I’m good at, and this definitely isn’t one of them’. 

Maybe. And it’s possible he’s been looking for a buyer who will keep the team in Buffalo but can’t find one. We really just don’t know.  

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

Maybe. And it’s possible he’s been looking for a buyer who will keep the team in Buffalo but can’t find one. We really just don’t know.  

Those of course aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. In fact, I’m guessing my hypothesis is the reason for the sale. Your hypothesis is why it’s yet to have happened. 👍

[May Day 10]

59 minutes ago, DaVinci said:

I think the PSE idea was a bust from the start. Branching out in two many directions just hemorrhaging cash. I think this current maneuvering is a bid to focus on the core investments.

 

It was wild.  There was the Sabres, Bills, Bandits, arena, Healthy Scratch, Harbor Center, Amerks, Knighthawks, One Buffalo, their silly record label, sports agency, etc.  

 

I feel like Kim got involved, and even with her meager night school management course education, figured out that Terry was lighting money on fire all over the place.  Kim started to reel it in, then had her medical episode.  Now fracking Jed Clampett doesn't really know what to do from here.

[PromoTheRobot]

15 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

With a new stadium, the Bills are going nowhere..

 

Mostly true. A deep-pocketed new owner might not blink at an $850 million penalty.

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

What does that have to do with the Sabres "loss of Canadian fans"?

 

It means that a significant number of Canadian fans don't want to risk a bad scene crossing the border. The 15-20% decline is verified.

 

Keep in mind hockey isn't like football where games are once a week and usually played on Sunday. Hockey games happen on work nights. So you count on fans that live within 45 minutes to come out on a work night. If you're Canadian, do you want to risk getting hung up for hours, if not longer?

Edited 23 minutes ago by PromoTheRobot

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Lots of talk on here about the Sabres. Has anyone considered that Terry may be thinking he’s just not been that good at owning an NHL hockey team? Successful people like to be successful. They also don’t like losing. I’m guessing he’s spent more than a few nights trying to decide if he’s capable of putting a winning team on the ice. And if his conclusion is that he’s not, I wouldn’t be the least bit shocked if he says ‘I know the many things that I’m good at, and this definitely isn’t one of them’. 

 

Unfortunately the Sabres are Terry's special plaything. He's in meetings and speaks with Adams daily. Is he just there absorbing info or is he injecting himself in the team management process? It's not clear.

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Maybe. And it’s possible he’s been looking for a buyer who will keep the team in Buffalo but can’t find one. We really just don’t know.  

 

I kind of doubt it. He's not even looking at minority shares like with the Bills. And he is facing an expensive rehab of Key Bank Center in the near future.

Edited 21 minutes ago by PromoTheRobot

[Augie]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

 It was done with callousness.

 

It was the start of COVID. PSE was losing money. Folks were afraid they were gonna lose their jobs. Kim held an organizational meeting. Talked about how they weren’t going to be getting raises. Said one of their organizational goals was to maintain the Pegulas’ lifestyle.

 

At its MOST CHARITABLE, it was incredibly tone deaf and ridiculous. 
 

“Over the course of a few days, Pegula addressed various departments via video conference from the family’s home office in Boca Raton, Fla. She explained raises and bonuses should not be expected aside for those, such as coaches and players, contracted to receive them. Budgets would be scrutinized.

Times ahead were going to be difficult, Pegula stressed, and sacrifices must be made. The tone underscored worries that had been circulating among workers at various Pegula Sports and Entertainment properties.”

 

“Kim Pegula’s video presentation included a rundown of organizational objectives. One particular slide, titled “Pegula Family Goals,” shook executives and lower-level employees alike. A handout version of the slide, obtained and verified by The Athletic, listed the Pegulas’ three chief objectives: win championships, sustainability, return on investment.

Pegula, current and former employees say, explained that return on investment included maintaining the family’s lifestyle”

 

Times are tough and some of you won’t get raises but we still need to keep our PJ is just horrific leadership at face value.

 

Well, that’s good to know that you were there during the presentation and could read the minds of those preparing the message. That’s quite a gift! 

 

If raises are not expected, that should be communicated. That’s how it generally works in the real world. They told the truth, and that brings hate from some.

 

I guess I should expect anyone who goes by “Fire Anyone” would be inherently negative.