UPDATE: ISRAEL V IRAN - Trump just announced we bombed Fordow

[Pokebball]

5 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

For those choosing to not call a clear act of war “war,” what would you call it if any country attacked NYC tomorrow with dozens of massive bombs? F.uck Iran for sure (just so some dimwits don’t spin my first sentence as some insane support of them) but if the roles were reversed, you wouldn’t consider it war because….. reasons? 

It's nuanced, right?

[Big Blitz]

10 minutes ago, Trump_is_Mentally_fit said:

Two tweets on Hormuz, saying different things

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

The “allow folks that are not compatible with Western Civilization into the Country” has been a completely ruinous policy

 

 

 

 

[TH3]

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Leverage that pushes Israel to a 2 state solution - which is of course what the libs here think should just magically happen and they’ll live happily ever after.  

Well …the 2 state solution did not happen, JCPOA was tossed and now Gaza in in ruins, the starving  are being shot as the scramble for food and Iran is now an active battlefield.

 

so your point was what?

[aristocrat]

42 minutes ago, muppy said:

useless drivel. which is so much like what you usually post is.

 

another one bites the ignore list dust.SMH

 

you're Not better than any random troll mate. I see you

I see you too! 

[joshypoo]

23 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The “allow folks that are not compatible with Western Civilization into the Country” has been a completely ruinous policy

 

 

 

 

maybe talk to the idiots on both sides who think their imaginary man in the sky is the right one…alllllllll religion can lick my taint…

2 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Agreed! And let’s also reiterate the TRUE origins of this Iran-Israel-U.S. conflict, lest the PPP warmongers try to obfuscate otherwise: the 1953 coup in Iran and the 1948 Nakba.

 

 

I’m anti-American Empire, not pro-Iran. I am in favor of national sovereignty and human rights while against unnecessary wars and collective punishment. My first instinct of distrusting government claims of WMD’s is a consequence of growing up in the post-9/11 era. What you deem to be a sign of mental illness is what I consider to be a sign of basic intelligence.

 

No, I don’t believe we will see the evidence in under 10 years or ever. As a concerned American citizen, it’s not that I need the specific intelligence made public to me. I just need various trusted third parties to see the evidence in private and then to publicly confirm that the claims are legitimate.

 

 

 

I’m a girl, actually, but thank you for your kind words! You’re a good poster, too. This forum could use more people like yourself who can sustain political discussions and debate.

 

Also: I’m a social democrat and not a communist or even a socialist, but don’t expect BillsFanNC to ever understand the distinction. The “comrade” in my name is a tongue-in-cheek thing.

 

P.S. A friend of Muppy is a friend of Commie Kay!

 

 

 

I hear ya, but I’m just super pessimistic that the current Iranian regime can be ousted without American boots on the ground. Moreover, I’m far from confident that a replacement regime would be any better for the world or for Iranians.

 

Love ya, Mups!

 

<< hugs Muppy >>

<< punches Leh-nerd because…reasons >>

 

 

 

“Imminent” = on the order of days or weeks or months, not a year or longer. There has been ZERO evidence suggesting the danger was imminent. Trump and Netanyahu opted out of diplomacy way too soon for, I believe, reasons that I’ve already articulated. You’re presenting a fork-in-the-road situation as if both choices are of approximately equal caliber in rationale. What happened to the Leh-nerd who is uber-skeptical of government power, the establishment, the deep state, and what not?? You seem to be suspending a lot of your innate distrust when it comes to this particular dilemma.

you are wayyyyyyy too intelligent for this forum.

[BillsFanNC]

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

 

 

 

I’m anti-American Empire, not pro-Iran. I am in favor of national sovereignty and human rights while against unnecessary wars and collective punishment. My first instinct of distrusting government claims of WMD’s is a consequence of growing up in the post-9/11 era. What you deem to be a sign of mental illness is what I consider to be a sign of basic intelligence.

 

No, I don’t believe we will see the evidence in under 10 years or ever. As a concerned American citizen, it’s not that I need the specific intelligence made public to me. I just need various trusted third parties to see the evidence in private and then to publicly confirm that the claims are legitimate.

 

 

 

 

Also: I’m a social democrat and not a communist or even a socialist, but don’t expect BillsFanNC to ever understand the distinction. The “comrade” in my name is a tongue-in-cheek thing.

 

.

3 things- one I know you hate the USA as it is currently constructed but can not understand why you are still here since there are many social democratic countries out there. as for your "your trusted third parties" the people you trust are not pro American either, the Dems literally warn racist and murderers that ICE is doing sweeps, so their opinion is meaningless. I truly ask whose opinion would you trust on the data that does not truly hate Trump?

[Bills!Win!]

58 minutes ago, joshypoo said:

maybe talk to the idiots on both sides who think their imaginary man in the sky is the right one…alllllllll religion can lick my taint…

you are wayyyyyyy too intelligent for this forum.

I don’t like to be referred to as an idiot 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

The “allow folks that are not compatible with Western Civilization into the Country” has been a completely ruinous policy

 

 

 

 

Somebody should have put the kibosh on the McVeigh and Nichols families, apparently. 

29 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

3 things- one I know you hate the USA as it is currently constructed but can not understand why you are still here since there are many social democratic countries out there. as for your "your trusted third parties" the people you trust are not pro American either, the Dems literally warn racist and murderers that ICE is doing sweeps, so their opinion is meaningless. I truly ask whose opinion would you trust on the data that does not truly hate Trump?

Hoax. You hate the USA.  That’s why you’re such a lousy teacher.  Probably a secret Chinese agent, you are. 

[US Egg]

Midnight Hammer?

 

Didn’t the open for Iron Maiden on their European tour in ‘82?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 hours ago, Trump_is_Mentally_fit said:

 

Putins propaganda machine is hardly a trusted source.  But I certainly hope they are wrong.  If not, we will likely see more 30000 pound bombs dropped.  At this point, we're in for penny, in for a pound.

Edited 6 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

51 minutes ago, US Egg said:

Midnight Hammer?

 

Didn’t the open for Iron Maiden on their European tour in ‘82?

LOL, not sure, but I saw Iron Maiden in august '83 at the Aud and Fastway opened for them. 

 

It actually turned into a really famous (infamous) concert. 

 

https://stason.org/TULARC/music-bands/iron-maiden/30-The-Concert-In-Buffalo-The-Lawsuit-Iron-Maiden.html

[BillsFanNC]

 

[Dukestreetking]

Again just popping in quickly: some solid arguments made on both "sides". I'm impressed w PPP which, well, sometimes doesn't have the best rep, lol!

 

@ComradeKayAdams we may have different perspectives on domestic or geopolitical issues, but I "liked" you bc you present (fr what I've seen) reasoned, sober thinking. Seriously, I respect that.

 

But...I will briefly take issue with your statement:

 

“Imminent” = on the order of days or weeks or months, not a year or longer. There has been ZERO evidence suggesting the danger was imminent.

 

Perhaps some folks here have/had what is called CNWDI or Q clearance. If so, they might understand my gentle suggestion:

 

When one looks syncretically re the corpus of current and historical evidence (open or otherwise) of the IR NWP--or even data of other nuclear powers--there is most assuredly an "imminent path" from A to B.

 

What one does with that understanding is another matter entirely. I'm not trying to be overly opaque...but it's what I can offer here.

[BillsFanNC]

 

[SectionC3]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

I don’t disagree with the point.  But it actually undercuts the timing of the Trump actions.  Once the horse is out of the barn (through the Israeli attack), why wait off you’re going to bomb?   All the delay did was give Iran time and space to empty valuables from Fordow, like the enriched uranium

that we appear to have missed. 

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Putins propaganda machine is hardly a trusted source.  But I certainly hope they are wrong.  If not, we will likely see more 30000 pound bombs dropped.  At this point, we're in for penny, in for a pound.

The next thing the Putin machine is

going to do is help Iran close Hormuz.  Maybe even furnish the weaponry to try to sink a USN carrier.  
 

In the near term the price of Russian crude exports increases.  And, in the long term,  it’s a chip for them to play to help get Ukraine’s benefactors to back off. 

[sherpa]

7 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I don’t disagree with the point.  But it actually undercuts the timing of the Trump actions.  Once the horse is out of the barn (through the Israeli attack), why wait off you’re going to bomb?   All the delay did was give Iran time and space to empty valuables from Fordow, like the enriched uranium

that we appear to have missed. 

 

 

Sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct one.

The US did not know, thank God, of Israeli strike plans that were so incredibly successful.

 

To design a strike as complicated as what we just pulled off takes an immense amount of planning and coordination.

 

That takes time, and that detailed planning is what allowed the execution to be so successful.

 

I fully doubt the Russia/Tehran (IRGC), suggestion re the Strait of Hormuz in your post.

I don't think it's at all likely.

The IRGC has been decapitated.

[BillsFanNC]

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

11 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

The US did not know, thank God, of Israeli strike plans that were so incredibly successful.

We don't know this.

 

"I want to thank and congratulate Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu. We worked as a team like perhaps no team has ever worked before, and we’ve gone a long way to erasing this horrible threat to Israel. I want to thank the Israeli military for the wonderful job they’ve done."

 

The timing is vague at best.  If we were working with them from the onset of the attack, that changes things imo.  That would mean we were planning war all along which congress should have least been apprised of, if not voted on.  The timing matters.