ISRAEL V IRAN: Trump just warned everyone should evacuate Tehran

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

What I think SHOULD happen? As an ardent non-interventionist, I would have Iran agree to a JCPOA v2.0 crafted by the IAEA. In return, the international community would lift all economic sanctions on Iran, agree to a permanent ceasefire, and impose a worldwide BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction) policy against Israel if Israel does not oblige. I would also open up all channels of cultural communication with Iran as part of the deal, which would essentially be a “Trojan horse” strategy to foment internal dissent and revolution via secular humanist principles.

 

Consider these additional questions as you assess this topic:

 

1. Who do you trust the most among Trump, Netanyahu, Khamenei, and the IAEA? My answer: easily the IAEA. Not even close.

 

2. Is Iran a rational actor or an irrational one? My answer: a rational one, believe it or not. Their observed behavior has remained consistent with a country fully aware of and completely invested in its self-preservation. A “rational actor,” as defined in this instance, understands that the single use of a nuclear weapon against Israel would equate to its own instant annihilation. Modern world history has taught us that possession of nuclear weapons equate to protection from American imperialism. Become Russia or North Korea and not Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, etc…

 

3. What is motivating the United States government in this conflict? My answer: the MIC, AIPAC, powerful individual oligarchs like Miriam Adelson, and (sadly) many Christian fundamentalists.

 

4. What is motivating Israel in this conflict? My answer: a quest for regional hegemony so that a Greater Israel (including Gaza, the West Bank, all of Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, southwest Syria, and southern Lebanon) can be constructed with minimal resistance.

 

5. Why did Israel attack Iran just days before the latest scheduled peace talks in Oman? My answer: to sabotage the peace talks.

 

6. Why was Trump insistent that Iran not have a nuclear energy program for civilian purposes? My answer: typical “Art of the Deal” stupidity.

 

7. What are the prospects for de-escalation? My answer: Frighteningly poor. The world leaders involved all appear to be sociopaths, in the clinical DSM-5 sense of the word. Tribalism is deeply entrenched and the dehumanization process is highly advanced. Iran just struck an Israeli hospital, for bleep’s sake, which I interpreted as an “oopsie!” response to all 36 of the hospitals Israel has targeted in Gaza since 10/7/23.

I think you're on the right path here. But regarding point 5, "What is motivating the United States government in this conflict?", before replying to this point I'd ask which United States? Because America is unique among the nations of the world. It is both a country and an empire. And what motivates actors doing the bidding of the country is different from what motivates those doing the bidding of the Empire. Adding to this, the Empire is not simply composed of Americans. Its composed of entities like the international banking system, aligned foreign interests, multi-national corporations, and vassal states and allies such as many European nations, Japan, to name some. I'm not sure why more people don't see this dual personality disorder as it can explain much of what goes on.

 

So when I hear America First I don't think of isolationists like some here will cry, or America alone. I hear America the country first not America alone, the empire second. The Empire is never alone. Actors line Pompeo, Bolton, other neocons do the bidding and act in the interest of the Empire. Neoliberals too. They've all come out of the woodwork this week advocating for US intervention, which is no surprise as that's their primary mission in life. As a group they must be as excited as Baseball fans on opening day!

 

Conversely, the populist movement is composed of citizens that are tired of endless wars and interventions that divert resources from what they see as domestic priorities. These people and some conservative compose the interests in America the country. Surprisingly, many liberals and leftist do too. Like Bernie Sanders for example.

 

Only 19% of Trump voters in a recent poll support direct intervention. So for Trump the risk of direct US military involvement is losing his audience rather early in his term. Because Republicans can't win elections without this large block of voters (too bad the democrats can't figure it out and move to the center and get these people back). So the dilemma is the risk of losing his base vs. letting Iran off the hook here to fight another day and let Israel handle the problem.

 

As for Iran, the smart thing to do would be to agree to a nuclear deal with inspections. But not some unconditional surrender scenario. If I'm them (which I am not) I'd do this on the condition that Israel submit to inspections and monitoring too. Because they already possess nuclear weapons and there's nothing in their recent actions that tell me they can be trusted any more than Iran can be trusted. Of course the Israeli's will respond to this condition with a vehement "no" but bringing this condition to the table will expose the issue to the discussion the servants of the Empire and Israel don't want to have at any point.

[Niagara Bill]

So, how would you react to a guy who says 5 different times that he is going to decide to punch you in the face, soon, maybe, I will let you know, maybe!

So can he decide not to, even if you dont change, or say sorry, Would you be fearful, more and more or would you begin to change direction and run, or would you eventually say fu and strike first.

How many times does trump think he can threaten, or how many times should he threaten. Is he not making himself look like Taco?

 

 

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Homelander said:

Sure and many criticized that at the time, because public health isn’t a partisan issue. But let’s not pretend the protest gathering compares to the organized, sustained resistance to basic precautions - mask mandates, social distancing, and later, vaccines - that became a defining feature of the political right. 

 

 

Yes, and their distrust was rooted in historical abuse - like the Tuskegee experiment you mentioned. But guess what? Black communities closed the gap in vaccination rates, especially in blue states, once trusted messengers and outreach were in place.

 

Meanwhile, large chunks of the conservative base still clung to YouTube pseudoscience and libertarian Facebook memes. Just look at @Big Blitz who still can't accept that Trump was President when the pandemic started. 

 

 

Would you take medical advice from a guy who told you to drink bleach?

 

Harris said she wouldn’t trust a vaccine pushed solely by Trump without scientific backing - a position that became irrelevant once the vaccines were reviewed and endorsed by the FDA, CDC, and global health experts. And she got vaccinated on camera like every other responsible adult. Why didn't Trump?

 

 

It dramatically reduced severe illness, hospitalization, and death - especially in the early waves. That’s how vaccines work: not force fields, but firewalls. And pretending they were worthless because they didn’t offer 100% sterilizing immunity is like saying seatbelts are useless because they don’t prevent all injuries.

 

 

Of course. But we’re talking about state-level outcomes - which correlate overwhelmingly with public health policy, governance, and yes, partisan control. Red states had higher death rates. That’s data you cannot contest.

 

 

Sure - it was going to hit. But the scale of the tragedy, the number of lives lost, and the chaos we lived through? That wasn’t inevitable. That was policy failure, willful ignorance, and political theater that cost hundreds of thousands of lives unnecessarily.

 

Yeah, it was inevitable.  If a Dem had been President, travel wouldn't have been curtailed early for fear of being "racist" and the number of infected coming in would have made it exponentially worse.  Remember all the whining by Dems when Trump restricted travel?

 

And would a Dem President have gotten the vaccines, which were so instrumental, out as quickly?  BTW, no one said they were "useless," just that they weren't as perfect as they said and probably led to a lot of complacency.

 

Then again, maybe if a Dem had been President, the superspreader Summer of 2020 riots would have been curtailed?

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

So, how would you react to a guy who says 5 different times that he is going to decide to punch you in the face, soon, maybe, I will let you know, maybe!

So can he decide not to, even if you dont change, or say sorry, Would you be fearful, more and more or would you begin to change direction and run, or would you eventually say fu and strike first.

How many times does trump think he can threaten, or how many times should he threaten. Is he not making himself look like Taco?

 

Good question.  A better question is "do you want to FAFO?"

[BillsFanNC]

The covid vax performed exactly as you would expect against a novel, rapidly mutating respiratory virus.

 

Initial trials show high efficacy? Check

 

Efficacy waned in the population as new variants inevitably emerged? Check

 

Vaccinated were less prone to severe disease/death, particularly among elderly and immunocompromised? Check

 

Democrats were against the vaccine (Trump in WH) before they were for it (Biden in WH)? Check.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/19/we-are-witnessing-the-death-of-american-democracy/

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

15 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

 

A) If you want to talk about homelessness, increasing the housing supply is only one component of a multi-faceted issue. Sure, there are definitely silly regulations that hinder housing construction progress. But what about oligopoly effects from corporate landlords? Sluggish wage growth relative to rising prices throughout the economy? Bankruptcies due to health care debt? Mental health crises? Drug addictions? Deficiencies in our veterans affairs program?

 

B) Then there’s the grave matter of ecosystem collapse due to suburban sprawl. You praised Houston for its lax building regulations, but us New Yorkers are not like Texans! We actually care about things up here like the environment, efficient transportation, and global warming. I can be aligned with you on issues like public housing and anti-NIMBY politics, but a lot of that available land needs to be reserved for natural carbon sequestration (i.e. planting trees) in the form of (preferably unfragmented) woodland/wetland ecosystems.

 

 

C) Also, for the people who think Iranian regime change is a simple matter of bombing the right places and that it won’t escalate to American boots on the ground: what about the potential for a refugee crisis a la Syria 2015, when Iran is FOUR TIMES the population size of Syria?? The law of unintended consequences…ugh…

A) None of that other stuff matters if you don't have enough housing for people to live in. Period. There should be a state agency that refurbishes the old semi-delapadated houses and makes them livable. Like an army corp of engineers for home repair. 

 

B) It would be ok to be more like Texans in some regard, everyone is moving there, to NY? Not so much

 

C) I don't see regime change as happening. These filthy regimes hang on through the worst conditions and care care less if their people are starving or whatever. Regime change just doesn't seem like its going to happen. 

[JDHillFan]

40 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/19/we-are-witnessing-the-death-of-american-democracy/

How many of these articles have been written in the Trump era? Meanwhile 1M+ people gathered across the country last weekend worried about a “king”. See you at the ballot box in 2026. 
 

Good lord. 

[thenorthremembers]

8 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

How many of these articles have been written in the Trump era? Meanwhile 1M+ people gathered across the country last weekend worried about a “king”. See you at the ballot box in 2026. 
 

Good lord. 

Why bother with common sense.  You're speaking to people that think if youre the loudest youre not only right but also in the majority.   Meanwhile people at those same protests cant articulate why they are actually there beyond not liking Trump.

[muppy]

3 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Rather than paint themselves into a corner Isreal has cleverly manipulated the situation by placing pressure and focus on the US to become directly involved in the conflict. Publicly placing responsibility for the fate of the world exposed to the potential of Iranian nuclear weapons that don't exist at present. Playing us like a puppet. 

My view is stay out and leave them to sink or swim. This nonsensical world cop thing aside it's their fight not ours.

all this political intrigue and real drama makes me wanna HURL. I cant make it plain enough. Reading and pondering the types of people in this thread and the what ifs of the situation give me such anxiety I cant tell you.

 

Trying to imagine what will happen and now each day we wait wait wait. and still the verbal swords are rattling

 

LHM

58 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/19/we-are-witnessing-the-death-of-american-democracy/

I think so. In a real sense absolutely yes

 

because when you don't abide by laws  You make chit up as you go then SCOFF about  how DARE you question my motives of acting oh MY whims not the constitution

 

and then hire total IMBECILES laptop LEMMINGS

 

WTAF

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

from the beginning, I told people it was most likely disseminated by aerosolized droplets and the most common methods other known viruses are known to spread via that pathway.

Gotcha.

 

Do you feel those under your professional care consistently acknowledged receipt and conveyed understanding via socio-medical relevant verbal/non-verbal cues, in a manner that an objective observer would conclude met the needs of all stakeholders?

[BillsFanNC]

When those who support ignoring immigration law then whine about perceived instances of ignoring the law on the other side, it tends to fall really flat.

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by BillsFanNC

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

1 hour ago, Niagara Bill said:

So, how would you react to a guy who says 5 different times that he is going to decide to punch you in the face, soon, maybe, I will let you know, maybe!

So can he decide not to, even if you dont change, or say sorry, Would you be fearful, more and more or would you begin to change direction and run, or would you eventually say fu and strike first.

How many times does trump think he can threaten, or how many times should he threaten. Is he not making himself look like Taco?

 

 

Well, he is addle minded, easily distracted, gets bored if things require too much thought and doesn't want to deal with negative consequences of any kind. 

 

That's who MAGA elected as our king. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/06/19/we-are-witnessing-the-death-of-american-democracy/

 

 

President Auto Pen

 

 

 

Not one Democrat Presidential nominee has won a primary election since 2008

 

 

 

 

 

You people need to stfu about demo………oh wait oh wait my bad hold up.   
 

Yes, you are correct.  Your version of “democracy” is actually dying in America.  
 

Communism.  Communists talk about democracy all the time.  So yes your American communist bureaucracy is dying.  That’s right.  
 

You better find some more illegals, Chinese vote by mail ballots, and rogue judges to undermine the people to save it.  

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Blitz

[Roundybout]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

 

President Auto Pen

 

 

 

Not one Democrat Presidential nominee has won a primary election since 2008

 

 

 

 

 

You people need to stfu about demo………oh wait oh wait my bad hold up.   
 

Yes, you are correct.  Your version of “democracy” is actually dying in America.  
 

Communism.  Communists talk about democracy all the time.  Yes you are correct your American communist bureaucracy is dying.  
 

You better find some more illegals, Chinese vote by mail ballots, and rogue judges to undermine the people to save it.  

Early indications in local elections are that MAGAs are getting blown out. I wouldn’t be crowing just yet. 

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Early indications in local elections are that MAGAs are getting blown out. I wouldn’t be crowing just yet. 

 

So you still have hope for your communist party.  
 

Because of a special election or 2 in March or April of an off year?  
 

No disputing exactly what we mean when we say democracy vs what the machine (you rooted for it) says about democracy.  
 

Ok.  Got it.   

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

So you still have hope for your communist party.  
 

Because of a special election or 2 in March or April of an off year?  
 

No disputing exactly what we mean when we say democracy vs what the machine (you rooted for it) says about democracy.  
 

Ok.  Got it.   

I wish you wouldn’t fall into the BillsFanNC camp of calling everything you don’t like “communism.” You’re better than that 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Roundybout said:

I wish you wouldn’t fall into the BillsFanNC camp of calling everything you don’t like “communism.” You’re better than that 

LOL!  Better to just call it Naziism, right?

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

I wish you wouldn’t fall into the BillsFanNC camp of calling everything you don’t like “communism.” You’re better than that 

 

Who is the front runner in the NYC mayoral race again?  
 

What’s his platform?  

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, muppy said:

all this political intrigue and real drama makes me wanna HURL. I cant make it plain enough. Reading and pondering the types of people in this thread and the what ifs of the situation give me such anxiety I cant tell you.

 

 

Not my business to tell people what to think, but with the Israeli action and how this is playing out, we are WAY better off than we were a few weeks ago.

Cheer up.

Imagine no sponsor of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis.

Imagine Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia able to coexist peacefully with Iran and Israel.

 

It is all possible.

Best two weeks in a very long time.

Edited 2 hours ago by sherpa

[muppy]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

Not my business to tell people what to think, but with the Israeli action and how this is playing out, we are WAY better off than we were a few weeks ago.

Cheer up.

Imagine no sponsor of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis.

Imagine Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia able to coexist peacefully with Iran.

 

It is all possible.

Best two weeks in a very long time.

I really appreciate your comments. You are a poster I trust. Thank you. Sincerely