The Battle for Jobs at Safety and Corner.

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, BlueRed said:

I’m curious to see if the bills cuts at these positions garner any interest across the league or come back as perfect practice squad players. 

We’ve grown accustomed to players like Cam Lewis and Ingram but do other teams have an interest or a spot on their 53 for these types of players?

 

It seems more often than not the players the bills end up cutting stick around. 

The bills used to be the place where NFL careers died 15 years ago.. if you got cut from the bills your career was over

 

Now guys we cut usually get a lot of interest 

 

Lewis and Ingram 100% would get another contract ... There are worse back half of roster guys

[jwhit34]

By 2027 the starters will be Benford, Hairston, Strong, Hancock and Bishop.

 

Lewis and Ingram will not make the team. Hamlin's $700+K dead cap is nothing, remember MVS was I think $2 million. And remember OJ Howard.

 

On the 53: Benford, Hairston, T Johnson, White, Strong, Jackson, Rapp, Bishop, Forrest, Hancock.

 

If they keep 24 on offense (2 QB, 4 RB/FB, 9 OL, 3 TE, 6 WR) and 3 ST that leaves 26 for D. With the 2 suspensions, they can get away with 10 DL, 10 DB, 6 LBs. The roster challenges  start when the suspended players come back.

[GASabresIUFan]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The bills used to be the place where NFL careers died 15 years ago.. if you got cut from the bills your career was over

 

Now guys we cut usually get a lot of interest 

 

Lewis and Ingram 100% would get another contract ... There are worse back half of roster guys

 

 

Very few of last year’s FAs have signed with new teams.  Douglas, Cooper, Morris, Smoot, and others are still unsigned.  
 

By the way I know I started this thread, but honestly I’m still very concerned about the quality of both Safety and CB.  
 

For CB to be improved, the two rookies, Hairston and Strong will have to make an impact.  Hairston needs to be a plug and play starter as White’s metrics were worse than Douglas’ last season.  Strong also needs to beat out the washed up Dane Jackson.  If White and Jackson play significant minutes next season, don’t expect better results. 
 

The same goes for Safety. 3/4 of last year’s disappointing unit return.  For this unit to improve, Bishop had to become the starter and show significantly improved play.  Otherwise Hamlin and Rapp return as the underwhelming starters.  So what about Forrest? He was primarily a special teamer for Wash last season.  I hope he adds decent depth, but I had more up for Edwards last season. Hancock is a raw rookie learning a new position.  

 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

 

 

Very few of last year’s FAs have signed with new teams.  Douglas, Cooper, Morris, Smoot, and others are still unsigned.  
 

By the way I know I started this thread, but honestly I’m still very concerned about the quality of both Safety and CB.  
 

For CB to be improved, the two rookies, Hairston and Strong will have to make an impact.  Hairston needs to be a plug and play starter as White’s metrics were worse than Douglas’ last season.  Strong also needs to beat out the washed up Dane Jackson.  If White and Jackson play significant minutes next season, don’t expect better results. 
 

The same goes for Safety. 3/4 of last year’s disappointing unit return.  For this unit to improve, Bishop had to become the starter and show significantly improved play.  Otherwise Hamlin and Rapp return as the underwhelming starters.  So what about Forrest? He was primarily a special teamer for Wash last season.  I hope he adds decent depth, but I had more up for Edwards last season. Hancock is a raw rookie learning a new position.  

 

Plenty of veterans don't sign until closer to the season because they want the right team 

 

Douglas , Cooper are definitely going to find landing spots.. Morris was an undrafted free agent 4 years ago.. the average career is 3 years 

 

Smoot has had tons of injuries his whole career so no surprise he's not signed yet

 

The Buffalo Bills have the most draft picks still in the NFL the last 7 years regardless of team

[GASabresIUFan]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Plenty of veterans don't sign until closer to the season because they want the right team 

 

Douglas , Cooper are definitely going to find landing spots.. Morris was an undrafted free agent 4 years ago.. the average career is 3 years 

 

Smoot has had tons of injuries his whole career so no surprise he's not signed yet

 

The Buffalo Bills have the most draft picks still in the NFL the last 7 years regardless of team

You can give ample reasons why guys aren't signed, but the truth is our starting WR, starting CB and most used ST player are still without a job.

 

This shows me that Beane had significant work to do this offseason and there are still questions, especially at WR, CB and Safety, whether Beane accomplished that goal for this season.

[Pete]

23 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:

By 2027 the starters will be Benford, Hairston, Strong, Hancock and Bishop.

 

Lewis and Ingram will not make the team. Hamlin's $700+K dead cap is nothing, remember MVS was I think $2 million. And remember OJ Howard.

 

On the 53: Benford, Hairston, T Johnson, White, Strong, Jackson, Rapp, Bishop, Forrest, Hancock.

 

If they keep 24 on offense (2 QB, 4 RB/FB, 9 OL, 3 TE, 6 WR) and 3 ST that leaves 26 for D. With the 2 suspensions, they can get away with 10 DL, 10 DB, 6 LBs. The roster challenges  start when the suspended players come back.

With the new kick off rule, special teams is more important than ever.  Last year Mack Hollins, Lewis, and Ingram were core special teamers.  Who is going to replace our top 3 special teams players?

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

You can give ample reasons why guys aren't signed, but the truth is our starting WR, starting CB and most used ST player are still without a job.

 

This shows me that Beane had significant work to do this offseason and there are still questions, especially at WR, CB and Safety, whether Beane accomplished that goal for this season.

A season and a half ago Douglas was playing out of his mind 

 

The NFL catches up to everybody it's not like he was trash day one here.. he hit the wall but he still probably wants to get paid like a top two corner on a team

[nosejob]

I heard it talked about ( I think it was BB) and the first thing they're gonna do is look at Hancock at Safety and nickel. It doesn't sound like he has the ball skills for a

Safety but I'm sure they'll try Strong out in different spots. They'll land where they're supposed to. We need a freewheeling ball hawk. Can't have all box guys.

[Ben]

On 5/2/2025 at 3:24 PM, klos63 said:

Hamlin did a lot of good things last season,  but he's probably the slowest safety I've seen play,  ever. 

He's a quality backup,  but way too slow to be a top starter.

Agree. Ill be really worried if Bishop doesn't clearly overtake him in preseason.

[Bills Fan in MD]

Hancock and Strong are near locks to make the team.  5th round picks usually make the team (and are unlikely to clear waivers if cut) and the chatter on Strong has been universally positive.   Unless either flame out big time in camp I'd expect both to be on the team.    That's not great news for Lewis, Jackson, or Ingram (and probably two of the three).

[boyst]

19 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I didn't mean to imply there would be mid-season changes. I just think that both Forrest and Hancock are the sort of positionally sound, situationally aware captain/leaders who are the kind of very smart players that McDermott loves, and they'll get some chances to show their stuff early. They both probably need a year in this defense for Coach to have enough confidence in them to truly get a shot to start, but in the meantime they are both going to make some plays that will push both Bishop and Rapp to stay on their toes, errrrr balls of their feet.

I am interested to see if Bishop makes the sophomore leap all of McDermotts other players make - even Dorian Williams. I hope I'm wrong re: Williams but I think he's got to his ceiling. A serviceable backup, a low grade starter in a 4-3 for WLB. 

 

Bishop being a decent athlete with limited speed will be his handicap. His prowess to move to the ball with fierceness and his quick reaction time will need to be improved. He reacts well once he has made the read and hopefully he can learn to diagnose the play earlier, faster, and efficiently to process the next step before he has to make it. This was something Hyde did. He always seemed to be in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a mistake by the offense.  This was due to his ability to quickly diagnose and find the defensive weakness. Bishop needs to, also. 

[Doc]

Going into the season last year they kept 11 DBs: 7 CBs and 4 Ss.  One of them (Codrington) was just a returner and offered little at CB, playing only late in the season when the outcomes were decided.

 

Right now on the roster there are only 4 Ss (Rapp, Bishop, Forrest and Hamlin), and while they say they're going to (also) play Hancock there, he is just a rookie.  I think they (may be forced to) keep them all.

 

At CB is where it gets interesting.  If they keep 7 again, I would say it's because they plan on keeping Codrington, again.  That means that there are 10 players (not counting Te'Cory Couch or the UDFAs) vying for 6 spots.  I'd say Benford, Hairston, Johnson and White are locks, with Hancock being a likely bet.  That leaves 1 spot open. 

 

I think they can cut Jackson, Lewis and Ingram with minimal dead cap hit (less than $800K) and chance of losing them.  They can be put on the PS.  That leaves 1 spot for Hardy or Strong.  Unless they keep 7 CBs without Codrington.

[NeverOutNick]

On 5/2/2025 at 2:43 PM, GASabresIUFan said:

This is as crowded a field for DB jobs that I can remember.  The Bills' secondary last season outside of Benford was mediocre at best.  Benford emerged as one of the top 5 corners in the NFL and was rewarded with a huge second contract.

 

Gone from last year are former 1st rd pick Elam (traded away) and CB2 Douglas.

 

There are 9 returning players, plus 3 FA signees and 3 draftees competing for 10-12 jobs.  Historically the Bills have keep 4-5 safeties and between 5-7 CBs.

 

1) Besides Benford there are four other locks for the team.

2) Slot Corner Taron Johnson - Former All Pro was not a good as usual last season, but still solid.

3) Rookie Corner Max Hairston - speed demon and our top draft pick

4) Starting Safety Rapp - Beane praised his leadership last season.

5) 2nd year safety Cole Bishop - Injuries slowed his progress, but he pushed Hamlin for the starting job late in the season. 

 

Guys almost certain to make the team

6) Former starting safety Hamlin. Bills re-signed him this offseason and his dead cap if cut is 2 mill which is nearly 700K more than his actual cap hit.  A trade may happen if he gets out performed in camp.

7) FA signee and Bills returnee Tre White.  White signed for a year and 2.88 with a dead cap if cut of 2 mill.  He'll compete with Hairston for the CB2 job

 

Guys competing for the remaining jobs (not in any particular order)

8.) FA Safety Forrest - Cap hit 1.2 (dead cap 167K) - Has starting experience.  I have him penciled in but he could lose out like Edwards did last year.

9) S/CB Cam Lewis - Cap hit 2 mill (dead cap 212K) - Special Teams leader and often plays the dime, but 1.8 cap savings if cut.

10) FA CB Dane Jackson - Cap hit 1.37 (dead cap .568) - Former Bill returns after dreadful season in Carolina.

11) CB Ingram - Cap hit 1.03 (dead cap 4K) - played ok when called upon last season, but is primarily a special teams player.

12) CB Draftee Strong - Pick 177 out of Virginia Tech - Press Corner with 4.5 speed and good height and other measurables (Cap hit 911K, 71K dead cap if cut)

13) CB/S Hancock - Pick 170 out of Ohio State - 4.42 speed and 41.5 vertical.  Beane imagines him a safety because of only decent coverage skills. (Cap hit 920K, dead cap 80K)

14) CB/KR Codrington - UDFA acquired from the Jets - Good rookie year as primarily a punt returned. (Cap hit 960K, 0 dead cap)

15) CB/KR Hardy - 2024 draftee who lost his job to Codrington but remained on the PS last season. (Cap hit 844K, 8.5K dead cap)

 

CB Benford, Johnson and either White or Hairston start - Backups White or Hairston, then 2 others and maybe a 7th player who is primarily a punt returner.  The camp battles look like Strong, Ingram and Jackson for 2 CB slots with Codrington vs Hardy vs Shenault (WR) for the KR slot.  No telling how that will play out. 

 

At Safety Bishop are Rapp are the starters, Hamlin a backup with Forrest, Hancock and Lewis competing for up to 2 jobs.  I have Lewis as the odd man out.  

 

How this plays out should be interesting to watch.  

 

 

Hope you’re wrong on Hamlin. Hoping Forrest and Hancock make Hamlin an easy cut 

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, boyst said:

I am interested to see if Bishop makes the sophomore leap all of McDermotts other players make - even Dorian Williams. I hope I'm wrong re: Williams but I think he's got to his ceiling. A serviceable backup, a low grade starter in a 4-3 for WLB. 

 

Bishop being a decent athlete with limited speed will be his handicap. His prowess to move to the ball with fierceness and his quick reaction time will need to be improved. He reacts well once he has made the read and hopefully he can learn to diagnose the play earlier, faster, and efficiently to process the next step before he has to make it. This was something Hyde did. He always seemed to be in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a mistake by the offense.  This was due to his ability to quickly diagnose and find the defensive weakness. Bishop needs to, also. 

 

Not sure if you're talking about hesitancy here because Bishop has 4.45 speed.  Which is understandable since he was behind the 8-ball after missing almost all of training camp and all of pre-season recovering from a broken scapula.

[DJB]

On 5/2/2025 at 3:00 PM, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I'll be honest: so far Bishop has not proven to me that he's a starter. I expect major battles up and down the depth chart and some decent players are going to be gone on cutdown day

He’s also been misused as a FS when his natural spot is SS. Let’s cut him some slack 

[Simon]

34 minutes ago, boyst said:

I am interested to see if Bishop makes the sophomore leap all of McDermotts other players make - even Dorian Williams. I hope I'm wrong re: Williams but I think he's got to his ceiling. A serviceable backup, a low grade starter in a 4-3 for WLB. 

 

Bishop being a decent athlete with limited speed will be his handicap. His prowess to move to the ball with fierceness and his quick reaction time will need to be improved. He reacts well once he has made the read and hopefully he can learn to diagnose the play earlier, faster, and efficiently to process the next step before he has to make it. This was something Hyde did. He always seemed to be in the right place at the right time to capitalize on a mistake by the offense.  This was due to his ability to quickly diagnose and find the defensive weakness. Bishop needs to, also. 

 

I agree with almost all of this; you're e v a l of Williams is spot on, and your diagnosis of Bishop's primary issue is what I see as well.

The only place I might differ is that I think Bishop is faster than you think he is. I don't know what his 40 is or anything, but I do get the sense that he can really get teh lead out when it's time to go. His shortcoming are not physical, but all mental at this point, imo.

[boyst]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Not sure if you're talking about hesitancy here because Bishop has 4.45 speed.  Which is understandable since he was behind the 8-ball after missing almost all of training camp and all of pre-season recovering from a broken scapula.

He has speed, I guess I don't see the 4.5 speed when it comes to making the play.

 

Maybe it's almost leodis mckelvin meets Aaron Williams. Williams always played safety like a corner, though. Maybe more Williams than I thought when I began this sentence. Williams often played too tight on his hits and spins to maintain speed, but also flipped his hips a little too quickly in coversge which was a reason he struggled at corner. I'd have to take a guess at my memory to believe he flipped them prematurely because of his overall stiffness despite being plenty fast enough (I googled 4.55 40).

 

Bishop maybe fast in a straight linear line but I don't know that he makes a fast enough movement with his body and agility to my comfort. Once he does zero in, though, he is quick to get there and a force.

 

Tl,Dr: he doesn't have fluid speed.

2 hours ago, DJB said:

He’s also been misused as a FS when his natural spot is SS. Let’s cut him some slack 

I definitely think he needs slack. I would like to see him used as a weapon across the field, as a big nickel or dime.

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I agree with almost all of this; you're e v a l of Williams is spot on, and your diagnosis of Bishop's primary issue is what I see as well.

The only place I might differ is that I think Bishop is faster than you think he is. I don't know what his 40 is or anything, but I do get the sense that he can really get teh lead out when it's time to go. His shortcoming are not physical, but all mental at this point, imo.

I see, as mentioned above, a stutter in his motion. Subtle, likely mental, but it's there. The lead you speak of may be that initial burst, the drop step kickoff, that makes him run like a freight train. 

 

I'm spoiled by watching Hyde who was just cerebral and moved smoothly during the snap so when it did occur his motion was already working for him with his reads and recognition.

[YattaOkasan]

18 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

A lot of fans are discounting the role of STs in final DB roster decisions, especially as it pertains to Codrington. He's competing with Hardy, Shenault, Shakir, Samuel, Hamler, etc., for the punt returner role, but he's the current favorite.

 

Can Strong, Hairston, or Hancock return punts? What about Moore (or how about Coleman reprising his college role)? I genuinely don't know. 

Codrington was only punt return by the end of the year and not even in the playoffs. He filled a need last year but he doesn’t do anything else on teams. I think he’s gone. 

[Jalan81]

On 5/2/2025 at 3:08 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I expect Hairston and Benford to start at the corner position. Taron at NCB.

 

At Safety Rapp and Hamlin are the starters coming into camp.

 

If someone outplays them, so be it. As of the close of last year, Bishop did not look like a guy poised to take over. Maybe a healthy camp changes that. Forrest or whoever his name is is a dart throw and a guy that people desperately wanting anyone but Hamlin are clinging to. And Hancock is going to have to learn the position. I don't see him as a day 1 option. 

 

And for what it's worth with all the hand wringing about Hamlin, I felt he was actually better than Rapp for much of the season. 

 

In any event the Bills action (or lack thereof) tells us what they think of that room. They made no move to bring in guys that are established starters, didn't look to the position high in the draft. They like their guys there.

 

 

If Hamlin is a starter come September, Beane and McDermott have really failed this team. He’s too slow, way too slow, he plays to far off because of it. He made the occasional play but his interceptions were largely because he was playing  far off he had overthrown balls and deflections fall in his lap. It’s like constantly having part of your defense always playing prevent. 

[LEBills]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

Going into the season last year they kept 11 DBs: 7 CBs and 4 Ss.  One of them (Codrington) was just a returner and offered little at CB, playing only late in the season when the outcomes were decided.

 

Right now on the roster there are only 4 Ss (Rapp, Bishop, Forrest and Hamlin), and while they say they're going to (also) play Hancock there, he is just a rookie.  I think they (may be forced to) keep them all.

 

At CB is where it gets interesting.  If they keep 7 again, I would say it's because they plan on keeping Codrington, again.  That means that there are 10 players (not counting Te'Cory Couch or the UDFAs) vying for 6 spots.  I'd say Benford, Hairston, Johnson and White are locks, with Hancock being a likely bet.  That leaves 1 spot open. 

 

I think they can cut Jackson, Lewis and Ingram with minimal dead cap hit (less than $800K) and chance of losing them.  They can be put on the PS.  That leaves 1 spot for Hardy or Strong.  Unless they keep 7 CBs without Codrington.

Coddrington needs to go, but will he? Hardy was drafted last year as a returner first and foremost. He struggled in preseason but maybe he has improved and can take over the duties while being a more functional CB. Probably the best option for the team would be if Elijah Moore returns punts like he did a bit of in college. We will keep at least 5 WRs no matter what, so if he can take that role that will free Coddrington’s spot for an OL or DL.