Big Badazz Beane on Pat McAfee today

[LEBills]

5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

In that clip, Beane pulls back the curtain on their roster strategy. He felt it was a weak wide receiver class, and when they were on the clock, none of the options meaningfully upgraded their top four. So why spend draft capital on someone who might only be your fifth receiver when you're typically running 12 personnel or 6 OL? It’s a candid look at how they approached the board to fit their offense. 

Our 5th WR played about 34% of offensive snaps last year (MVS+Coop, Shakir, Mack, Keon and Samuel were all over 34%). Only 2 DTs, 2 DEs, and 3 CBs took more snaps. Though Smoot did take slightly more than that percentage in the games he was healthy.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2024-snap-counts.htm

[corta765]

24 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

They didn’t, and look what happened - they averaged 30.9 PPG, and their QB won MVP.
 

As for moving up to get Brian Thomas Jr., it wasn’t as simple as it might seem. The only trade between picks 12 and 23 was the Vikings trading up from 23 to 17 with the Jaguars. If the Bills wanted to get to 17 from 28, they would’ve needed to give up a lot of draft capital. Pick 28 was worth 660 points, while pick 17 was worth 950, meaning the Bills would’ve needed to add at least 290 points. To put that into perspective, that’s like offering a second-round pick and a late-round pick, or a third-rounder and a future second-round pick.
 

And this is exactly what Jacksonville did. They moved back just 6 spots, from 17 to 23, and still picked up a mid-third-rounder instead of a late second. For a trade to happen, both sides need to see value in it, and there’s no guarantee Jacksonville would’ve been willing to make that much of a move down the board.

 

It is slightly exhausting that the idea of giving Josh quality cheap good WRs with major upside is not allowed. Maybe some of us like the idea that Josh is not making insane throws 24/7 and giving him a bit more help that is not a major cap issue would be a good idea. The team that won the SB has an awesome young WR besides AJ and was just as dangerous as BUF offensively if not more.

[JGMcD2]

46 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Our 5th WR played about 34% of offensive snaps last year (MVS+Coop, Shakir, Mack, Keon and Samuel were all over 34%). Only 2 DTs, 2 DEs, and 3 CBs took more snaps. Though Smoot did take slightly more than that percentage in the games he was healthy.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2024-snap-counts.htm

That’s not an accurate way to calculate the snap count for our 5th WR. Several of those players were starters at different points and missed time due to injuries.

 

This is a more accurate breakdown of how often our 5th WR played in each game. The average snap percentage for the Bills' 5th WR across the listed games is approximately 17.84% where they averaged 1 Target, .65 Catches and 7 Yards. 

 

Snap Counts for the Bills' 5th WR by Game:
 

• Arizona: Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 21%
  • 2 Targets, 1 Catch, 19 Yards
     
• @Miami: Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 9%
  • 1 Target, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• Jacksonville: Curtis Samuel - 27%
  • 3 Targets, 3 Catches, 22 Yards
     
• @Baltimore: Curtis Samuel - 37%
  • 2 Targets, 2 Catches, 8 Yards
     
• @Houston: Tyrell Shavers - 26%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• @New York: Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 32%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• Tennessee: Curtis Samuel - 4%
  • 1 Target, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• @Seattle: Jalen Virgil - 14%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• Miami: Jalen Virgil - 5%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• @Indianapolis: Jalen Virgil - 5%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• Kansas City: Jalen Virgil - 4%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• San Francisco: Jalen Virgil - 26%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• @Los Angeles: Jalen Virgil - 2%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• @Detroit: Curtis Samuel - 27%
  • 2 Targets, 1 Catch, 1 Yard
     
• New England: Jalen Virgil - 0%
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• New York: Tyrell Shavers - 14%
  • 1 Target, 1 Catch, 69 Yards, 1 TD
     
• @New England: N/A (Only 3 WRs played)
  • 0 Targets, 0 Catches, 0 Yards
     
• Denver: Amari Cooper - 36%
  • 3 Targets, 2 Catches, 8 Yards
     
• Baltimore: Curtis Samuel - 31%
  • 2 Targets, 2 Catches, 9 Yards
     
• @Kansas City: Curtis Samuel - 19%
  • 3 Targets, 1 Catch, 4 Yards
     

23 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

It is slightly exhausting that the idea of giving Josh quality cheap good WRs with major upside is not allowed. Maybe some of us like the idea that Josh is not making insane throws 24/7 and giving him a bit more help that is not a major cap issue would be a good idea. The team that won the SB has an awesome young WR besides AJ and was just as dangerous as BUF offensively if not more.

They had the luxury of picking in the top 10 to land that incredible young WR.
 

If you're looking for that type of player, you're probably going to need the team to bottom out first. That’s how Cincinnati got Chase to pair with Higgins. That’s how Miami landed Waddle to pair with Hill. That’s how Philadelphia got Smith to pair with Brown.

Edited yesterday at 07:57 PM by JGMcD2

[Billsguy]

Here are some facts from the NFL that "big balls Beane" forgot to quote. The Beane led Bills have neither been to the Super Bowl nor won the Super Bowl. Last year the Bills as a team scored 30 receiving touchdowns combined from all players. The team leader in WR TD's was journeyman Mack Hollins with 5 TD's. Bravo Beane, you have built a mediocre WR corps. What is this guy bragging about? In 2017 the Bills traded the #10 pick to KC who drafted Mahomes. He and the Chiefs have won 3 Super Bowls and been in 5 of the last 6 SB's. You don't hear the KC GM bragging like a tough guy like the foolish Beane. Maybe Beane the bully wants to distract people from the fact that he hasn't won anything!

Edited yesterday at 07:45 PM by Billsguy

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

That’s not an accurate way to calculate the snap count for our 5th WR. Several of those players were starters at different points and missed time due to injuries.

 

This is a more accurate breakdown of how often our 5th WR played in each game. The average snap percentage for the Bills' 5th WR across the listed games is approximately 17.84%.

 

Snap Counts for the Bills' 5th WR by Game:

• Arizona: Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 21%
• @Miami: Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 9%
• Jacksonville: Curtis Samuel - 27%
• @Baltimore: Curtis Samuel - 37%
• @Houston: Tyrell Shavers - 26%
• @New York: Marquez Valdes-Scantling - 32%
• Tennessee: Curtis Samuel - 4%
• @Seattle: Jalen Virgil - 14%
• Miami: Jalen Virgil - 5%
• @Indianapolis: Jalen Virgil - 5%
• Kansas City: Jalen Virgil - 4%
• San Francisco: Jalen Virgil - 26%
• @Los Angeles: Jalen Virgil - 2%
• @Detroit: Curtis Samuel - 27%
• New England: Jalen Virgil - 0%
• New York: Tyrell Shavers - 14%
• @New England: N/A (Only 3 WRs played)
• Denver: Amari Cooper - 36%
• Baltimore: Curtis Samuel - 31%
• @Kansas City: Curtis Samuel - 19%

Yes there is variance per game of course, but we did run 5 WRs deep. If you select each players name individually it gives you their season long snap percentage. You can do that with the defensive players as well and will see the same thing.

[Dillenger4]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Watched the whole thing, and I feel even better about how he addressed the WGR morons yesterday.

 

Great GM.

 

Boom baby! Jeremy on WGR is a dolt. He's still upset that Beaner called him a Fantasy Football guy and "belittled" him. Jeremy, you are a Fantasy football guy. You know nothing more than me or any average Joe regarding WR's and the draft. All he talks about are "we need more weapons for Josh. We needed a WR blah blah cry piss puke blah". Beane put the kid in his place and it was epic and joyful!!!!

 

Jeremy - create content (if you can call it that)

Beane - create a SB!!!

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

It is slightly exhausting that the idea of giving Josh quality cheap good WRs with major upside is not allowed. Maybe some of us like the idea that Josh is not making insane throws 24/7 and giving him a bit more help that is not a major cap issue would be a good idea. The team that won the SB has an awesome young WR besides AJ and was just as dangerous as BUF offensively if not more.

We haven't even picked in the top 20 in years.. devonte Smith went 10th overall to Philly lol

 

We haven't sniffed that position since 2019

 

Nobody knew Justin Jefferson would be Justin Jefferson that's why he lasted till 26.. wide receivers at that spot is a crap shoot

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

I think that’s a weak argument. Drafting a WR doesn’t impact the budget any more than drafting another position. No one expected a WR in the first round. I believe most people are happy with the picks across the first two days. The questions are being asked about day three. No one is asking Beane to trade next three first round picks for Chase or anything like that. Just something different in the room. And perhaps it is still to come.

Why are questions being asked about day 3. Last I checked Kaden Prather was drafted on day 3 and he's a WR. Everyone should be happy with that, no?

[Buffalo716]

12 minutes ago, Billsguy said:

Here are some facts from the NFL that "big balls Beane" forgot to quote. The Beane led Bills have neither been to the Super Bowl nor won the Super Bowl. Last year the Bills as a team scored 30 receiving touchdowns combined from all players. The team leader in WR TD's was journeyman Mack Hollins with 5 TD's. Bravo Beane, you have built a mediocre WR corps. What is this guy bragging about? In 2017 the Bills traded the #10 pick to KC who drafted Mahomes. He and the Chiefs have won 3 Super Bowls and been in 5 of the last 6 SB's. You don't hear the KC GM bragging like a tough guy like the foolish Beane. Maybe Beane the bully wants to distract people from the fact that he hasn't won anything!

If the bills drafted Patrick mahomes we don't have three super bowls lol

 

In fact he's probably not even close to the same guy because look at the roster Josh Allen inherited.. look at the roster Pat got 

 

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

If the bills drafted Patrick mahomes we don't have three super bowls lol

 

In fact he's probably not even close to the same guy because look at the roster Josh Allen inherited.. look at the roster Pat got 

 

Insane take.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Boom baby! Jeremy on WGR is a dolt. He's still upset that Beaner called him a Fantasy Football guy and "belittled" him. Jeremy, you are a Fantasy football guy. You know nothing more than me or any average Joe regarding WR's and the draft. All he talks about are "we need more weapons for Josh. We needed a WR blah blah cry piss puke blah". Beane put the kid in his place and it was epic and joyful!!!!

 

Jeremy - create content (if you can call it that)

Beane - create a SB!!!

You don't think a valid criticism of Beane that he's failed to address in WR in the middle rounds of the draft the last five years so you can get cheap labor at the position instead of having to pay veterans like Hardy, Samuel, and Palmer substantially more?  The two best WR's drafted while Beane's been here was Davis in the 4th and Shakir in the 5th.  Those two 4th round picks he used to trade up for Elam and Kincaid could've been used for a WR.

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

If the bills drafted Patrick mahomes we don't have three super bowls lol

 

In fact he's probably not even close to the same guy because look at the roster Josh Allen inherited.. look at the roster Pat got 

 

I don't know man.  In all four of our Chief playoff losses Pat was either as clutch or more clutch than Josh.  That's all I have to go by at this point.

[corta765]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

We haven't even picked in the top 20 in years.. devonte Smith went 10th overall to Philly lol

 

We haven't sniffed that position since 2019

 

Nobody knew Justin Jefferson would be Justin Jefferson that's why he lasted till 26.. wide receivers at that spot is a crap shoot

Proving why if the Bills had drafted one to two WRs in 2023 and again in 2024 they may have struck gold. The drafting of Shakir was the definition of doubling down when you had luxury as that draft we had just lost in 13 seconds and the offense at WR felt so good. Guess what you were still willing to make a move and it now has paid off in spades.

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

In that clip, Beane pulls back the curtain on their roster strategy. He felt it was a weak wide receiver class, and when they were on the clock, none of the options meaningfully upgraded their top four. So why spend draft capital on someone who might only be your fifth receiver when you're typically running 12 personnel or 6 OL? It’s a candid look at how they approached the board to fit their offense. 

 

Insane of them to approach it logically and not emotionally! I'm an emotional fan and they should have been focused solely on assuaging my emotions!

[Buffalo716]

57 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You don't think a valid criticism of Beane that he's failed to address in WR in the middle rounds of the draft the last five years so you can get cheap labor at the position instead of having to pay veterans like Hardy, Samuel, and Palmer substantially more?  The two best WR's drafted while Beane's been here was Davis in the 4th and Shakir in the 5th.  Those two 4th round picks he used to trade up for Elam and Kincaid could've been used for a WR.

I don't know man.  In all four of our Chief playoff losses Pat was either as clutch or more clutch than Josh.  That's all I have to go by at this point.

Patrick mahomes also got the best quarterback whisper in the last 20 years to learn from.. he got to sit on the bench behind a pro bowl quarterback while they went to the playoffs

 

Every single quarterback in the history of professional football can grow from being groomed from the bench.. you get ruined getting thrown to the fire , quarterback is the one NFL position you can learn from the sideline ... Even top five picks like Philip Rivers sat the bench

 

He also had a much better built roster top to bottom then Josh Allen inherited.. it's not even close to being in the same situation 

 

So yes I unequivocally believe Patrick mahomes would not have three super bowls here.. the NFL is all circumstances 

 

And he had a better circumstance not even close

 

Josh is one of the few quarterbacks to make it out through the fire on a bad team and come out polished... Bad surrounding team, playing through all the ups and downs getting thrown through the ringer...  he got the Peyton Manning treatment just like Peyton threw 27 picks his rookie year

 

That would have ruined anybody but Peyton Manning and Josh Allen is in the same mold as a fighter

Edited yesterday at 09:03 PM by Buffalo716

[Dillenger4]

5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You don't think a valid criticism of Beane that he's failed to address in WR in the middle rounds of the draft the last five years so you can get cheap labor at the position instead of having to pay veterans like Hardy, Samuel, and Palmer substantially more?  The two best WR's drafted while Beane's been here was Davis in the 4th and Shakir in the 5th.  Those two 4th round picks he used to trade up for Elam and Kincaid could've been used for a WR.

I don't know man.  In all four of our Chief playoff losses Pat was either as clutch or more clutch than Josh.  That's all I have to go by at this point.

No, I don't think it's valid. Beane has done a great job at WR and the team overall. Shakir is good. Kincaid is good. Ty J is good. Cook is good. Josh is good. Coleman is good. Knox is good. Adding Moore might be OK but not required. Our D will be good. We went to the AFC championship, again. It's not the WR or O dude... get with it. It was our D and injuries to the D. Now, we have depth and some butt kickers! Davis in the 4th was ok. Shakir in the 5th just shows how DOMINANT of a GM Beaner is. If you don't like it go follow the bungles as they have big $ in WR's and they are in trouble.

[Mikie2times]

I'm not going to get into the weeds too much here. As I think this conversation has digressed into "we suck" a bit too much from either perspective. 

 

I posted this yesterday showing how teams have used draft allocation since 2018. 

 

Drafting WR's at high rates doesn't mean you will be good. As it seems pretty clear looking at the top 5-10, that is often not the case. But just as clear, anybody in the area Buffalo is has a fairly developed WR room. Along with that, most of the teams we are chasing are at least ranked in the middle area. They value the position and they keep deploying assets towards it.

 

 

In that thread, you can also see DL and DB as two of the positions the most successful teams target. Which is exactly what we did this draft. Further, when you roll up all three positions (WR/DL/DB) you do see some very good teams near the top.  

 

 

So to me basically everybody is right on these takes. The DL and DB position groups needed help and good teams stock up in these positions. But good teams also draft WR pretty consistently, that is unless they have a fairly stacked roster. Throwing in everything combined, if I had to say what three positions appear most important to focus on as far as what the better teams in this league are doing, it's WR/DL/DB in no order. 

 

We should be drafting at least one if not two WR's a year until the room is filled out. That isn't insulting Beane, that's just saying what it appears like most of our higher level competitors do. At the very least, what most of them do if they don't already have that position filled. 

Edited yesterday at 08:16 PM by Mikie2times

[BullBuchanan]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You don't think a valid criticism of Beane that he's failed to address in WR in the middle rounds of the draft the last five years so you can get cheap labor at the position instead of having to pay veterans like Hardy, Samuel, and Palmer substantially more?  The two best WR's drafted while Beane's been here was Davis in the 4th and Shakir in the 5th.  Those two 4th round picks he used to trade up for Elam and Kincaid could've been used for a WR.

I don't know man.  In all four of our Chief playoff losses Pat was either as clutch or more clutch than Josh.  That's all I have to go by at this point.

You're upset we didn't take two more 4th round WRs? If you aren't happy with one Shakir, would you be happy with 3 of them?

That's of course taking into account that by not getting Kincaid, you'd now have a big hole to fill at TE and you'd have a worse receiving weapon there.

FWIW, Shakir is also the best performing WR in his class drafted after Pickens in the 2nd round. Are you praising Beane if he drafts Erik Ezukanma and Montrell Washington?

Edited yesterday at 08:17 PM by BullBuchanan

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Patrick mahomes also got the best quarterback whisper in the last 20 years to learn from.. he got to sit on the bench behind a pro bowl quarterback while they went to the playoffs

 

Every single quarterback in the history of professional football has learned from being groomed from the bench.. you get ruined getting thrown to the fire , quarterback is the one NFL position you can learn from the sideline 

 

He also had a much better built roster top to bottom then Josh Allen inherited.. it's not even close to being in the same situation 

 

So yes I unequivocally believe Patrick mahomes would not have three super bowls here.. half the NFL is circumstances 

 

And he had a better circumstance not even close

Are you really arguing about hypothetical scenarios that can never be proven wrong or right?  All I know is Allen never outperformed Mahomes in any of the four playoff games against each other.

[JGMcD2]

37 minutes ago, LEBills said:

Yes there is variance per game of course, but we did run 5 WRs deep. If you select each players name individually it gives you their season long snap percentage. You can do that with the defensive players as well and will see the same thing.

Yeah, we definitely ran five deep at receiver. Total season snap counts don’t tell the whole story - you’ve got to look at it game by game to really see how the fifth active wideout was used. There were numerous instances where we used our 6th OL more than we used our 5th WR.
 

From their perspective, there just wasn’t a receiver available at any point in the draft who they believed would jump Josh Palmer, Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, or Curtis Samuel on the depth chart. And that matters. How many of those receivers were actually stepping in and providing a real upgrade over any of those four?
 

And it’s not just about who you could have taken - it’s about what you gave up to take them. Was drafting Jayden Higgins or Luther Burden worth passing on Max Hairston? Would you really take Tre Harris, Jack Bech, Kyle Williams, or Isaac TeSlaa over TJ Sanders? Pat Bryant, Jaylin Noel, Savion Williams, Tai Felton, Chimere *****, or Dont’e Thornton over Landon Jackson? Or Arian Smith, Jaylin Lane, Jalen Royals, Elic Ayomanor, or Jordan Watkins instead of Deone Walker?
 

Then you get into the later rounds. What’s the real delta between guys like KeAndre Lambert-Smith, Tory Horton, LaJohntay Webster, Jimmy Horn, Tommy Mellott, Tez Johnson, or Ricky White - and the guy they ended up drafting in Kaden Prather? Especially when you'd likely have had to spend a pick one or two rounds earlier just to get them on the field for 17% of the snaps and have them average under 1 catch and 10 yards a game.

Edited yesterday at 08:21 PM by JGMcD2

[Einstein]

10 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You don't think a valid criticism of Beane that he's failed to address in WR in the middle rounds of the draft the last five years

No. I think that's a very poor criticism. 

I think it is fair to criticize him for not going after elite WR's in the 1st round. Or trading for an elite WR after Diggs. 

But criticizing him for not taking a flyer on a middle round WR that has a 5% chance of becoming anything decent is not a valid criticism imo. If you look at the top 50 WR's in the NFL (which is pretty much every single 1st and 2nd WR), only a handful of them were taken after round 3 (or was it 4?). It's a very low success rate at that point. 

Of course, everyone remembers the outliers like Puka Nacua and Diggs... but for the most part, you better take a WR in the first round or two.