Is Cook worth it?

[Mister Defense]

33 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

He does say things like that. Whenever he's asked. Which isn't all that often. but when it happens that's the kind of thing he says.

 

More, it's the kind of thing pretty much every player in the NFL says when asked about their teammate's financial issues.

 

It's about a half a step up from "He give 110%."

 

And yes, it's a duh there. He (and virtually all NFL players) compliments guys after they leave the team. But that's less obviously necessary than complimenting the guy when he's still on your team.

 

Josh does it when asked. They all do.

 

You say Josh's words aren't online because he didn't say them online? Do you see how ridiculous that is? When he has "an interview/press conference," as you say, know what happens? It gets video'd. The videos are online. It gets reported. The stories are online. It gets covered by podcasts and internet savants, and their reports go online. they get reported online. This happens consistently, and so often that it's wildly boring that we see these same quotations again and again and again. And again and again. And again.

 

All those things that Josh gets quoted on on the net? He said pretty much all of them at PCs and interviews. Hell, he said the thing you're quoting about Cook at a PC/interview. That somehow got reported on the net, didn't it?

 

The reason you can't find it is because he didn't say it. Again, I'm totally willing to be proven wrong. But without a link (or a page in a newspaper story, or whatever, but proof), it didn't happen.

 

In any case, I hope they do come to terms. It they do, IMO it will be because Cook came significantly off his $15M figure.

Well you are wrong all over the place, again,  and as usual, consistently...

 

Those words of Allen's were clearly specific and contract related.  He does NOT often say things related to another player's contract.

 

And even more wrong here :  "You say Josh's words aren't online because he didn't say them online? Do you see how ridiculous that is?"

 

Huh?????

 

I never said that  nonsense you spout off with!  I said, "But just like the quote I used in my post, and that you reference, it is not found online when doing a Google search.  Because it was not in a written interview, those words, like his comments on Cook  at minicamp,  do not show up in a Google search."

 

I never said the dumb thing you said I said, see the underlined nonsense above, please. I was clear--it was in an interview, press conference,  not in a written form so  you cannot just find them with a search using a quote from the interview or press conference.  I never said that dumb thing you say above there Thurman. It seems like a simple concept--to most..

 

After reading this awful post, response to mine,  and long after I wrote it, I am betting you also hate either McDermott of Beane? As it seems like the same nonsense most of the other haters rely on-- they cannot make good points with actual facts and reasoning. So they just pull nonsense out of their kiester, just make things up out of thin air, and hope nobody notices.  And then throw in some comically inept personal attacks.  Ridiculous indeed.  Sad. The real Thurman would be ashamed, probably sue you to stop using his name for such fabricated nonsense.

 

 

Edited Monday at 03:52 AM by Mister Defense

[Pete]

Joe Marino latest podcast was top Bills are each position group, the past 25 seasons.

 

Joes best RBs the past 25 years.

 

Fred Jackson-1st player in NFL history to have 1000 rushing yards and 1000 return yards

 

Shady Honorable Mention

 

Dawson Knox was named best Bills TE past 25 years

Scott Chandler Honorable Mention

 

WR Moulds

Lee Evans

 

Honorable Mention  Diggs

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

popping in to see what's keep this one alive lol

 

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I agree.

 

It is something that has not been part of the conversation enough, though there are a slew of posts and threads--doesn't almost everyone who has been watching think Cook will have a monster year this year?  Love me some Brady, maybe the next great offensive coordinator/offensive minded head coach in the NFl, but the one area he dropped the ball on a little last year was not riding Cook, and his other excellent backs, in both the running and passing game. This year he gets it from the get go, is my prediction.  Josh Allen, the best quarterback in the league, may have the best running game too.  Yikes, for the rest of the league if so.

 

I already know he is, saw it with my own eyes, but by the middle of this season, if all goes as planned, almost no one on here will be saying Cook is not an elite back--and one of the best players in the league. (Doc, they may take away your medical license for your poor diagnosis, evaluation!)

 

The Chiefs and other contenders without a Cook would be licking their chops...but they will go hungry because Cook will be signed, sealed and delivered, a Bill for years to come.  If not, 20 million a year may be what he garners, as the running games take on even more importance than last year.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but I hope not.

 

 

I do approve of the bolded

[HamptonBillsfan]

On 6/29/2025 at 8:00 PM, Mister Defense said:

 

I agree.

 

It is something that has not been part of the conversation enough, though there are a slew of posts and threads--doesn't almost everyone who has been watching think Cook will have a monster year this year?  Love me some Brady, maybe the next great offensive coordinator/offensive minded head coach in the NFl, but the one area he dropped the ball on a little last year was not riding Cook, and his other excellent backs, in both the running and passing game. This year he gets it from the get go, is my prediction.  Josh Allen, the best quarterback in the league, may have the best running game too.  Yikes, for the rest of the league if so.

 

I already know he is, saw it with my own eyes, but by the middle of this season, if all goes as planned, almost no one on here will be saying Cook is not an elite back--and one of the best players in the league. (Doc, they may take away your medical license for your poor diagnosis, evaluation!)

 

The Chiefs and other contenders without a Cook would be licking their chops...but they will go hungry because Cook will be signed, sealed and delivered, a Bill for years to come.  If not, 20 million a year may be what he garners, as the running games take on even more importance than last year.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but I hope not.

 

 

Great take, the idea of stringing this out just because his history is not resigning RBs for big money after their rookie deal is fine with questionable backs but Cook’s 3 years is better than any back in the league from the standpoint of production and staying healthy.

[Thurman#1]

 

On 6/30/2025 at 12:46 PM, Mister Defense said:

Well you are wrong all over the place, again,  and as usual, consistently...

 

Those words of Allen's were clearly specific and contract related.  He does NOT often say things related to another player's contract.

 

And even more wrong here :  "You say Josh's words aren't online because he didn't say them online? Do you see how ridiculous that is?"

 

Huh?????

 

I never said that  nonsense you spout off with!  I said, "But just like the quote I used in my post, and that you reference, it is not found online when doing a Google search.  Because it was not in a written interview, those words, like his comments on Cook  at minicamp,  do not show up in a Google search."

 

I never said the dumb thing you said I said, see the underlined nonsense above, please. I was clear--it was in an interview, press conference,  not in a written form so  you cannot just find them with a search using a quote from the interview or press conference.  I never said that dumb thing you say above there Thurman. It seems like a simple concept--to most..

 

After reading this awful post, response to mine,  and long after I wrote it, I am betting you also hate either McDermott of Beane? As it seems like the same nonsense most of the other haters rely on-- they cannot make good points with actual facts and reasoning. So they just pull nonsense out of their kiester, just make things up out of thin air, and hope nobody notices.  And then throw in some comically inept personal attacks.  Ridiculous indeed.  Sad. The real Thurman would be ashamed, probably sue you to stop using his name for such fabricated nonsense.

 

 

 

 

Um, I guess you're saying that I poorly mis-stated what you said? I don't see it myself, they appear nearly exactly the same. But let's say I completely messed it up. 

 

Thing is, what you actually said was every single bit as dumb as my recap of what you said.

 

The idea that because something is said at a PC rather than a written interview ... that it wouldn't show up on the internet isn't just dumb, it's false.

 

PCs have reporters covering them, and they put what is said into print. PCs these days are also on video. Again, they are covered ferociously, strip-mined passionately.

 

If Josh had said something as incendiary as that at a PC, it would have been quoted a million times and been not just able to be found on the internet, but ubiquitous for days afterwards. The reason you can't find it is he never said that.

 

As I pointed out before, all those things that Josh gets quoted on on the net? He said pretty much all of them at PCs and interviews. Hell, he said the thing you're quoting about Cook at a PC/interview. That somehow got reported on the net, didn't it?

 

If you want to keep kidding yourself about that, go ahead. But the reality is the reason you can't find it is he never said it. 

 

Oh, and I love McDermott and Beane, both of them. I hope they'll both be here ten years from now.

 

 

On 6/22/2025 at 2:54 AM, Mister Defense said:

 

 

In response to a question on Cook's contract he said, "He's one of the best backs in the league and hopefully that gets reflected soon." 

 

 

 

You know he said this at a press conference, right?

 

And yet somehow you can find it on the net, in many many places. Which is how it works.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:38 AM by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 6/30/2025 at 12:23 AM, HamptonBillsfan said:

My prediction is if Cook has a season with more carries and more production than  last season, teams will be lining up to give him 15million plus. Beane is steadfast about not paying him now but when Josh has an underachieving running game with less of a threat to break a  big run, the offense will be limited to mostly Josh and the passing game. That’s not the formula we used to make him the MVP and get to within a win of the SB.

 

 

Well, that's a big if.

 

IMO the reason he didn't get more snaps last year was because of the deficits in his game. He's not a true smash-mouth short yardage hammer and he can't pass-block well. And Johnson's a better receiving back.

 

If Cook improves his pass-blocking and pass-catching, maybe he'll get more snaps. And if that does happen, you could easily be right that he might get his 15M. Far from a sure thing that he'll make those improvements, though.

 

Nor is it a sure thing that he ends up with a similar amount of TDs next year. Last season was a wild outlier in terms of TDs. My guess if given the same opportunities again next year he'd end up with closer to 7 - 10 TDs. Which is still damn good. But it's no 16 TDs. We'll have to see how it all turns out.

 

But there's no particular reason to think that if we get rid of Cook that our run game would be "underachieving," your word there. I'd agree they'd have less of a threat to break one big, certainly. But our offense was still exceptionally good when our RBs were Singletary and Moss.

 

 

[nuklz2594]

wonder how much influence his brother has with him. personally...i'd like to have cookie back but not for what he is allegedly asking/demanding. the oline is everything.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

But there's no particular reason to think that if we get rid of Cook that our run game would be "underachieving," your word there. I'd agree they'd have less of a threat to break one big, certainly. But our offense was still exceptionally good when our RBs were Singletary and Moss.

 

 

Our offense relied less on the run then though. This is the point I keep making on Cook. I'd much rather the Bills were explosive in the pass game and could churn out backup level talents like Singletary and Moss to plod around the backfield on rookie deals like they were in 2020/21. If they were I'd let Cook walk to a team that relies more on the run quite happily. But right now when we do NOT create many explosives in the pass game other than Josh on broken plays I'm reluctant to give up one of the best explosive runs running backs in football. 

 

If you replaced Cook with a backup level talent plodder in THIS version of the Bills offense as otherwise constituted I'd be concerned. 

[Thurman#1]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Our offense relied less on the run then though. This is the point I keep making on Cook. I'd much rather the Bills were explosive in the pass game and could churn out backup level talents like Singletary and Moss to plod around the backfield on rookie deals like they were in 2020/21. If they were I'd let Cook walk to a team that relies more on the run quite happily. But right now when we do NOT create many explosives in the pass game other than Josh on broken plays I'm reluctant to give up one of the best explosive runs running backs in football. 

 

If you replaced Cook with a backup level talent plodder in THIS version of the Bills offense as otherwise constituted I'd be concerned. 

 

 

Concern, I understand.

 

But we aren't the offense we had last year. We're already better at WR, and Kincaid being healthy could very well be another major step upwards. It's possible Josh could keep having problems working together with him as he did last year, but I'd guess it's not the way to bet. 

 

And while we didn't create many explosives last year, we did keep drives going without explosive plays, really well.

 

Again, I would love to get Cook back. But I understand totally that they seem to have a value that they're willing to give, and that they don't want to go beyond it. I myself simply wouldn't give $15M per year. 

 

Well, we'll see what happened.

 

Oh, and I'd disagree with calling Singletary a plodder. He wasn't. He also wasn't nearly the breakaway threat Cook is. But he was terrific at making the first guy miss and turning 2 yard gains into five yarders. You look at his 4.7 YPC, with an OL that wasn't as good as the one we've got now, and it's not reasonable to call him a plodder. Not nearly the long threat Cook is but a good solid back.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Concern, I understand.

 

But we aren't the offense we had last year. We're already better at WR, and Kincaid being healthy could very well be another major step upwards. It's possible Josh could keep having problems working together with him as he did last year, but I'd guess it's not the way to bet. 

 

Remains to be seen. I am not sold yet that we are better at receiver. Maybe we are. Maybe we are worse. Maybe we are the same talent wise but different enough in style that we find more explosive pass plays. I hope you are right, because if that is true it might make for an easier Cook decision next summer (on the basis he doesn't sign a deal this summer).

 

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

And while we didn't create many explosives last year, we did keep drives going without explosive plays, really well.

 

Again, I would love to get Cook back. But I understand totally that they seem to have a value that they're willing to give, and that they don't want to go beyond it. I myself simply wouldn't give $15M per year. 

 

We did keep drives going well. But that is a hard play to live drive in and drive out for 17 games plus playoffs. And even in terms of turning what was really 4 or 5 yards into 9 or 10 Cook is among the best in the NFL over the past two years. He was also THE best in the entire league last year at yards lost in tackles for loss - he was tackled for a loss just 21 times (second fewest among qualifying backs behind Jahmyr Gibbs) and those 21 losses cost us just 37 yards - the lowest in the NFL among qualifying backs. It isn't JUST that Cook can break a big one. He is critical part of their everyone eats small ball offense too. 

 

As to the contract, I agree the Bills and Cook are obviously apart on the overall value of the package right now. We don't know that is just AAV, it might be, but my strong suspicion is it is as much about length and guarantees. There are $15m per year deals I'd do, given his value currently to this offense. But he'd have to be willing to leave some team flexibility on the table in terms of guarantees and contract length for me to get there. I'm a don't pay running backs guy. But he is clearly the second best offensive weapon on the team behind Josh Allen right now and unless this O can prove to me it is built different in 2025 then my instinct is you have to try and find a way to retain what he brings without tying yourself to an expensive running back contract for the longer term. 

 

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Oh, and I'd disagree with calling Singletary a plodder. He wasn't. He also wasn't nearly the breakaway threat Cook is. But he was terrific at making the first guy miss and turning 2 yard gains into five yarders. You look at his 4.7 YPC, with an OL that wasn't as good as the one we've got now, and it's not reasonable to call him a plodder. Not nearly the long threat Cook is but a good solid back.

 

His 4.7 average is bumped up somewhat by 5.1 ypc as a rookie when he did not, for the most part, start and we have seen sometimes being just a change of pace guy inflates those numbers. He is a plodding backup level talent. Cook is way better at making the first guy miss and way better at getting 5 or 6 yards out of 2 yard holes. Because his vision is on a different planet to Singletary's. Singletary has had three starting jobs in the NFL now. The Bills let him walk after his rookie deal and replaced him with Cook, the Texans and the Giants ended up benching him for rookies. He is who he is. A plodding backup. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

15 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, that's a big if.

 

IMO the reason he didn't get more snaps last year was because of the deficits in his game. He's not a true smash-mouth short yardage hammer and he can't pass-block well. And Johnson's a better receiving back.

 

If Cook improves his pass-blocking and pass-catching, maybe he'll get more snaps. And if that does happen, you could easily be right that he might get his 15M. Far from a sure thing that he'll make those improvements, though.

 

Nor is it a sure thing that he ends up with a similar amount of TDs next year. Last season was a wild outlier in terms of TDs. My guess if given the same opportunities again next year he'd end up with closer to 7 - 10 TDs. Which is still damn good. But it's no 16 TDs. We'll have to see how it all turns out.

 

But there's no particular reason to think that if we get rid of Cook that our run game would be "underachieving," your word there. I'd agree they'd have less of a threat to break one big, certainly. But our offense was still exceptionally good when our RBs were Singletary and Moss.

 

 

Why such a critical bent towards a guy that has been better each year with tremendous production. He’s not a traditional smash mouth runner but what back in football was better in the red zone. Instead of acknowledging his nose for pay dirt you prefer to call his season an aberration. Please don’t compare Motor or Moss to Cook. Cook has been better than any back in football his first three seasons considering health and production. I’m so tired of using his pass blocking as a knock against Cook. Josh had 8 sacks the whole year. If we want to take advantage of Cook’s skills, Brady has to isolate him on LBs and safeties in the passing game more, get him out more on screens and make him feel wanted. You’re deluding yourself thinking you can just insert another back and not take a step backwards. Singletary and Moss were just OK and any success we had was due in large part to Joshcentric offense with Diggs,Davis and Beasley producing in their prime. I think 2 to 3 more attempts a game for Cook is the sweet spot to maximize production and keep him fresh for the postseason.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 6/18/2025 at 4:21 PM, Big Turk said:

 

Don't dismiss it, but also don't dismiss the combined 4 rushing TD's he had the two years prior. I would expect a serious regression to the mean. Much more likely to have 6-8 TDs this year than 16(18 counting receiving TDs as well) again.

 

Would expect last year's output to likely be an outlier over his career and likely his career high point, and you never pay someone based on an outlier year---well, I mean poorly run teams do it a lot, but it's not something you want to see the Bills do.

 

Bills paying him based on a career best year is not a wise financial decision.

TDs aren’t easy to score. Cook had 18 because he Improved. Not bc of luck.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Cook decimating the 49ers defense in the snow was a thing of beauty. 

[Richard Noggin]

On 6/30/2025 at 8:33 PM, HamptonBillsfan said:

Great take, the idea of stringing this out just because his history is not resigning RBs for big money after their rookie deal is fine with questionable backs but Cook’s 3 years is better than any back in the league from the standpoint of production and staying healthy.

 

Wait, what?

[Big Turk]

31 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

TDs aren’t easy to score. Cook had 18 because he Improved. Not bc of luck.

 

Not understanding how sports work is a problem for most people. Just because you improved, doesn't mean that you are going to hit the same numbers every year.

 

Mookie Betts, one of the best baseball players in the last decade, hit .346 in 2018 for the Red Sox and led the league in batting average. He's never come close to that again before or since. It was a career outlier. 

 

Calvin Johnson caught 122 balls and had 1964 yards receiving in 2012. Both led the NFL. Never approached those numbers before or after. 

 

Virtually every good athlete has them. Seasons where every thing comes together and you get a magical statistical season. I am willing to bet Cook's will be last year with his 18 TDs.

 

I will bet he probably only hits double digits for TDs again no more than once in his career.

Edited yesterday at 02:26 AM by Big Turk

[Richard Noggin]

If we can sort of set aside his ridonkulous rushing TD total in '24, Cook was actually more productive overall in '23 in 3 fewer starts, and especially more productive in the passing game. In 2024, Ty Johnson really ate into Cook's passing volume following his own tantalizing 100% catch rate in limited 2023 action: 7/7 (LOL) for 62 yards, 2 1sts, and a TD. Johnson still has not recorded a dropped pass in 2 seasons with the Bills, despite an uptick in targets and a jump in depth of target. And he can pass block, apparently, at a higher level.

 

The RB room in 2025 is probably as close to McBeane's ideal vision as we're going to get, unless there is some absolute RB UNIT (big Wisconsin/Alabama style back) available on late day 2/early day 3 of the 2026 draft...to replace Cook and spell Davis on early downs and short yardage. 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

If we can sort of set aside his ridonkulous rushing TD total in '24, Cook was actually more productive overall in '23 in 3 fewer starts, and especially more productive in the passing game. In 2024, Ty Johnson really ate into Cook's passing volume following his own tantalizing 100% catch rate in limited 2023 action: 7/7 (LOL) for 62 yards, 2 1sts, and a TD. Johnson still has not recorded a dropped pass in 2 seasons with the Bills, despite an uptick in targets and a jump in depth of target. And he can pass block, apparently, at a higher level.

 

The RB room in 2025 is probably as close to McBeane's ideal vision as we're going to get, unless there is some absolute RB UNIT (big Wisconsin/Alabama style back) available on late day 2/early day 3 of the 2026 draft...to replace Cook and spell Davis on early downs and short yardage. 

 

There’s a reason Josh proclaims him the best 3rd down RB in the NFL. I really am curious as to what TJ would look like in a 1-2 punch or even in a starting role. He’s big, adequate speed, elite hands, and great blocker. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

10 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Not understanding how sports work is a problem for most people. Just because you improved, doesn't mean that you are going to hit the same numbers every year.

 

Mookie Betts, one of the best baseball players in the last decade, hit .346 in 2018 for the Red Sox and led the league in batting average. He's never come close to that again before or since. It was a career outlier. 

 

Calvin Johnson caught 122 balls and had 1964 yards receiving in 2012. Both led the NFL. Never approached those numbers before or after. 

 

Virtually every good athlete has them. Seasons where every thing comes together and you get a magical statistical season. I am willing to bet Cook's will be last year with his 18 TDs.

 

I will bet he probably only hits double digits for TDs again no more than once in his career.

You’re right. 18 TDs most likely won’t happen again, but you don’t think Cook will hit double digit TDs ever again? In the best offense in the game? He will certainly have his opportunities, the Bills are trending further & further away from Josh in the goal line and short yardage situations. Why keep getting your quarter of a billion dollar QB pummeled? Hand off to the guys that are paid to get those yards. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

If we can sort of set aside his ridonkulous rushing TD total in '24, Cook was actually more productive overall in '23 in 3 fewer starts, and especially more productive in the passing game. In 2024, Ty Johnson really ate into Cook's passing volume following his own tantalizing 100% catch rate in limited 2023 action: 7/7 (LOL) for 62 yards, 2 1sts, and a TD. Johnson still has not recorded a dropped pass in 2 seasons with the Bills, despite an uptick in targets and a jump in depth of target. And he can pass block, apparently, at a higher level.

 

The RB room in 2025 is probably as close to McBeane's ideal vision as we're going to get, unless there is some absolute RB UNIT (big Wisconsin/Alabama style back) available on late day 2/early day 3 of the 2026 draft...to replace Cook and spell Davis on early downs and short yardage. 

 

Name the Alabama/Wisconsi back not named Henry, who’s incidentally 32 and making 15million, in the NFL the last 10 years, who is as productive and as durable as Cook. Don’t be misled, Beane’s reluctance to pay Cook is because he played fast and loose with FAs on PEDs and extensions to CBs who could lose a season with one more concussion or TEs who have no receptions but are good friends with Josh. If Cook plays on the same trajectory as the last 3 seasons he’ll be more expensive than extending him now.