Why Tom Brady was the GOAT

[US Egg]

1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

To me, everything else being equal, going 4 and 2 in the Super Bowl is obviously better than going 4 and 0.

Were Brady to have won one every Super Bowl he played there'll be those going great lengths to discredit him. It's like a blind rage.   

[Billl]

When the Patriots had a dominant defense and needed a game manager at QB, Brady won championships.  When they got him weapons and ran a wide open offense, he put up massive numbers and won championships.  When he went to Tampa and was asked to throw the ball 500 times in his mid 40s, he won a championship.

 

He’s the career leader in Super Bowl wins, Super Bowl appearances, Completions, Yards, Wins, TDs, 4th quarter comebacks, and Game Winning Drives.  He is the best that’s ever done it.  His stats will tell you he’s the best.  His awards will tell you he’s the best, and his rings will tell you he’s the best.  Trying to argue otherwise is pure nonsense.

[Alphadawg7]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brady is the GOAT. There is no argument or debate needed. 

 

I am pretty sure you also didn't watch Montana play as from my recollection you were not watching football back then and didn't become a big fan until much later.  So no disrespect, if my recollection is accurate, you can't reasonably weigh in on this having not watched Joe's entire career.  I watched both, and I can tell you 2 things:  

1. Brady is the GOAT, no other QB has a career resume that can match because he played longer and through that accomplished more than anyone.  May never even be equalled.  
2. But - It is not so clear who the best QB was on the filed in their primes on any given Sunday.  

To be fair, I have the same issue at RB when IMHO Barry Sanders is the clear GOAT at RB - But I also didn't watch Jim Brown play and can't really refute when someone argues he was for example.  

 

Basketball has a similar debate - Lebron is going to hold more records, more stats, more Finals appearances, etc than Jordan because he has played longer between coming out of High School and still playing at an elite level this late in his career nearly 40 - but doesn't mean he was a better player than Jordan.  But depending on how one views them, an argument can be made both ways.

 

But no disagreement, Brady has the resume to lock down GOAT title, and deserves it.  Still doesn't mean that head to head in their prime he was a better than Montana.  I am not even saying it was Montana, I am just saying it is a legitimate debate.  

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its also a team sport, a QB can only control so much.  But the reality is, QB's get the most credit and the most blame - and the only games people weigh the most are the Championship games.  

 

Montana's path to the Super Bowl was a lot tougher than the paths Brady and the Pats repeatedly faced too.  And once he got there he didn't lose.  Not saying its bad Brady lost, but its just how things are weighed.  Lebron gets it held against him too how many times he got the finals and lost when compared in GOAT conversations too.  Winning in the finals elevates ones status exponentially, and losing in the finals/championship doesn't really - and when compared to other greats who didn't lose, it comes up and factors in some what, fair or not.  Look at Burrow, no one talks about how he made one SB - one which he lost with the ball in his hands - and now they just talk about can he even make the playoffs this year after missing the last 2 despite having one of the best set of weapons in the league. 

 

 

You are arguing context but there was no context in the original statement - simply that four Super Bowl wins and zero losses is better than four Super Bowls wins and 2 losses.  I agree winning in the finals does raise ones status exponentially however in this case the two have the same number of Super Bowls wins at the age you are comparing.  I don't think losing in a couple of Super Bowls subtracts from the wins but rather adds (a little bit) to it.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am pretty sure you also didn't watch Montana play as from my recollection you were not watching football back then and didn't become a big fan until much later.  So no disrespect, if my recollection is accurate, you can't reasonably weigh in on this having not watched Joe's entire career.  I watched both, and I can tell you 2 things:  

1. Brady is the GOAT, no other QB has a career resume that can match because he played longer and through that accomplished more than anyone.  May never even be equalled.  
2. But - It is not so clear who the best QB was on the filed in their primes on any given Sunday.  

To be fair, I have the same issue at RB when IMHO Barry Sanders is the clear GOAT at RB - But I also didn't watch Jim Brown play and can't really refute when someone argues he was for example.  

 

Basketball has a similar debate - Lebron is going to hold more records, more stats, more Finals appearances, etc than Jordan because he has played longer between coming out of High School and still playing at an elite level this late in his career nearly 40 - but doesn't mean he was a better player than Jordan.  But depending on how one views them, an argument can be made both ways.

 

But no disagreement, Brady has the resume to lock down GOAT title, and deserves it.  Still doesn't mean that head to head in their prime he was a better than Montana.  I am not even saying it was Montana, I am just saying it is a legitimate debate.  

 

I didn't see Montana play, nope. I didn't see Unitas play either, or Otto Graham... But Brady took it to the point where it was beyond debate and you don't need to have watched all those other guys. 

 

I didn't see Pele play either, but I don't need to. Messi is the GOAT.

[RoscoeParrish]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brady is the GOAT. There is no argument or debate needed. 

It was over in 2018, and 2020 put an exclamation point on it.

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am pretty sure you also didn't watch Montana play as from my recollection you were not watching football back then and didn't become a big fan until much later.  So no disrespect, if my recollection is accurate, you can't reasonably weigh in on this having not watched Joe's entire career.  I watched both, and I can tell you 2 things:  

1. Brady is the GOAT, no other QB has a career resume that can match because he played longer and through that accomplished more than anyone.  May never even be equalled.  
2. But - It is not so clear who the best QB was on the filed in their primes on any given Sunday.  

To be fair, I have the same issue at RB when IMHO Barry Sanders is the clear GOAT at RB - But I also didn't watch Jim Brown play and can't really refute when someone argues he was for example.  

 

Basketball has a similar debate - Lebron is going to hold more records, more stats, more Finals appearances, etc than Jordan because he has played longer between coming out of High School and still playing at an elite level this late in his career nearly 40 - but doesn't mean he was a better player than Jordan.  But depending on how one views them, an argument can be made both ways.

 

But no disagreement, Brady has the resume to lock down GOAT title, and deserves it.  Still doesn't mean that head to head in their prime he was a better than Montana.  I am not even saying it was Montana, I am just saying it is a legitimate debate.  

Lebron and Jordan is far closer than Brady vs the field imo.

 

Lebron has the longevity and Jordan has the peak.

 

Brady has both. 
 

Its 100% a closed case.

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't see Montana play, nope. I didn't see Unitas play either, or Otto Graham... But Brady took it to the point where it was beyond debate and you don't need to have watched all those other guys. 

 

I didn't see Pele play either, but I don't need to. Messi is the GOAT.

 

You are not having the same discussion.  The debate is not who was the GOAT - I verbatim said its Brady, and I agree, its not a debate.  The question here is, in their prime, who was the actual best QB to stand on an NFL field on any given Sunday.  Take away the longer career and therefore longer resume, just 2 guys in their prime - who would be the best QB on that field. 

 

And no disrespect, that is where you don't have the insight to weigh in on that as you didn't watch Montana play.  I watched every game he played practically - My dad had 3 loves in his life - His kids first.  Niners 2nd.  TV show "Dallas" 3rd.  Wife - somewhere down the list lol.  When the Niners or the TV Show "Dallas" were on, you could only ask him yes or no questions during commercial breaks.  I watched just about every Niners game Joe ever played and I can tell you that it is NOT certain that Brady was actually better than Joe was in their respective primes.  

 

Brady is the GOAT without question - But who would be the best QB in a head to head battle in their primes is very much open for debate.  

 

18 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

It was over in 2018, and 2020 put an exclamation point on it.

Lebron and Jordan is far closer than Brady vs the field imo.

 

Lebron has the longevity and Jordan has the peak.

 

Brady has both. 
 

Its 100% a closed case.

 

See my reply to Gunner - you are having the wrong debate.  Not debating Brady whether Brady is the GOAT, he is, and said so in every post.  The question is who was actually the best QB in their primes.  And I am not saying its even for sure Montana, I am simply saying is a valid question and debate.

Edited August 4 by Alphadawg7

[nuklz2594]

He worked hard and had the "it" factor. Just like Derek jeter

[RoscoeParrish]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not having the same discussion.  The debate is not who was the GOAT - I verbatim said its Brady, and I agree, its not a debate.  The question here is, in their prime, who was the actual best QB to stand on an NFL field on any given Sunday.  Take away the longer career and therefore longer resume, just 2 guys in their prime - who would be the best QB on that field. 

 

And no disrespect, that is where you don't have the insight to weigh in on that as you didn't watch Montana play.  I watched every game he played practically - My dad had 3 loves in his life - His kids first.  Niners 2nd.  TV show "Dallas" 3rd.  Wife - somewhere down the list lol.  When the Niners or the TV Show "Dallas" were on, you could only ask him yes or no questions during commercial breaks.  I watched just about every Niners game Joe ever played and I can tell you that it is NOT certain that Brady was actually better than Joe was in their respective primes.  

 

Brady is the GOAT without question - But who would be the best QB in a head to head battle in their primes is very much open for debate.  

 

 

See my reply to Gunner - you are having the wrong debate.  Not debating Brady whether Brady is the GOAT, he is, and said so in every post.  The question is who was actually the best QB in their primes.  And I am not saying its even for sure Montana, I am simply saying is a valid question and debate.

Tom Brady was the best in his prime. Because he’s the GOAT.

 

GOAT stands for “Greatest Of All Time.”

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not having the same discussion. 

 

I wasn't having any debate. About anything. Brady is the GOAT. That is all I said. 

 

But to your point... how do you know the greatest isn't Graham or Unitas? 

Edited August 4 by GunnerBill

[Doc Brown]

31 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The question here is, in their prime, who was the actual best QB to stand on an NFL field on any given Sunday. 

If that's what we're going by than prime Aaron Rodgers would be my choice.  However, if we're talking GOAT it's seven time Super Bowl Champion Tom Brady.  It's not close.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

Tom Brady was the best in his prime. Because he’s the GOAT.

 

GOAT stands for “Greatest Of All Time.”

 

Ok - well we can just move on since we are not talking about the same thing, all good

[US Egg]

At least we can all agree Elvis was “The King” and Muhammad Ali was “The Greatest”.

[Alphadawg7]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wasn't having any debate. About anything. Brady is the GOAT. That is all I said. 

 

But to your point... how do you know the greatest isn't Graham or Unitas? 

 

All good, but you had chimed into my convo where I was stating Brady is the GOAT but I don't know for sure who was the actual best QB to ever play on a given Sunday in their prime.  

 

And there are people who watched Graham and Unitas who will insist they are also in those conversations.  I cant say they deserve to be or not as that is before my time, but I do know there is a legit question which QB was better in their prime on any given Sunday in Joe and Tom despite acknowledging Tom has earned the GOAT title through all his accomplishments.  

Edited August 4 by Alphadawg7

[Orlando Buffalo]

Brady was a cheater at the highest level, in NFL history the NFL has punished teams 3 times with loss of 1st round draft picks and all three Brady was the beneficiary of the cheating. I will admit that part of the insult is how the same guy argues Brady is the GOAT but Barry Bonds is not when Barry is the lesser of the two cheaters. 

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All good, but you had chimed into my convo where I was stating Brady is the GOAT but I don't know for sure who was the actual best QB to ever play on a given Sunday in their prime.  

 

I didn't though. I chimed into a thread to say Tom Brady is the GOAT and there is no room for debate. That's it. I did not insert myself in anyone's conversation. I didn't quote anyone, I didn't respond to any particular point by anyone, I simply made a statement. 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am pretty sure you also didn't watch Montana play as from my recollection you were not watching football back then and didn't become a big fan until much later.  So no disrespect, if my recollection is accurate, you can't reasonably weigh in on this having not watched Joe's entire career.  I watched both, and I can tell you 2 things:  

1. Brady is the GOAT, no other QB has a career resume that can match because he played longer and through that accomplished more than anyone.  May never even be equalled.  
2. But - It is not so clear who the best QB was on the filed in their primes on any given Sunday.  

To be fair, I have the same issue at RB when IMHO Barry Sanders is the clear GOAT at RB - But I also didn't watch Jim Brown play and can't really refute when someone argues he was for example.  

 

Basketball has a similar debate - Lebron is going to hold more records, more stats, more Finals appearances, etc than Jordan because he has played longer between coming out of High School and still playing at an elite level this late in his career nearly 40 - but doesn't mean he was a better player than Jordan.  But depending on how one views them, an argument can be made both ways.

 

But no disagreement, Brady has the resume to lock down GOAT title, and deserves it.  Still doesn't mean that head to head in their prime he was a better than Montana.  I am not even saying it was Montana, I am just saying it is a legitimate debate.  

 

I watched both Brady and Brees in their prime and saw Brees make all the same reads and the same throws with the same precision.  In particular seasons, Brees had better stats, but Tom had the rings.  So I wonder, did Tom earn more rings than Brees because he was the better QB and leader or because he had a better supporting cast including both coaches and players?  I don't have a firm answer for that but I tend to think it was the latter.  And that makes me hesitate to call Tom the undisputed GOAT.

 

In Brady's best season (2021), he threw for 5,316 yards.  Incidentally, Brady only broke 5,000 twice while Brees did it an amazing five times.  The next best guy in 2021 (Herbert) threw for 5,014 yards.  Brady beat him by 6%.

 

In OJ's best year (1973), he ran for 75% more yards more than the next best guy (Brockington)!!!  Brady never had a season like that.  Brady was very good for a very long time on a team that was very good and very well-coached.  Does that make him the GOAT? I don't know.  Maybe. 

 

But I've seen other players who in a given season were head-and-shoulders above their peers in ways Tom never was. 

 

 

[Awwufelloff]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Interesting - Our season ended because no one on our offense knew where the Blitz was coming from on 4th down and was fooled by Spags on the final play.  We had multiple guys running wide open on the play for easy first down but Josh had no time to even see them or attempt to get them the ball after we cheated coverage the wrong direction and gave their defense a free release on Josh.  The result heaving a prayer ball instead.  We literally had 3 players wide open for easy first or massive gains, including Shakir right off the snap and even Kincaid himself (who was running wide open for massive gain opportunity) if we could have better protected and let Josh throw a clean ball.  

 

It's an area we need to be better at in crunch time - on both sides of the ball.  

The Bills offensive line was one of the best in the league last year. Brady would have known to get it out before any pressure was there if he read the play. 

Edited August 4 by Awwufelloff

[TBBills Fan]

If he was the GOAT, is he still the GOAT?

 

It's way to early to annoint Josh 

[Ga boy]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I am pretty sure you also didn't watch Montana play as from my recollection you were not watching football back then and didn't become a big fan until much later.  So no disrespect, if my recollection is accurate, you can't reasonably weigh in on this having not watched Joe's entire career.  I watched both, and I can tell you 2 things:  

1. Brady is the GOAT, no other QB has a career resume that can match because he played longer and through that accomplished more than anyone.  May never even be equalled.  
2. But - It is not so clear who the best QB was on the filed in their primes on any given Sunday.  

To be fair, I have the same issue at RB when IMHO Barry Sanders is the clear GOAT at RB - But I also didn't watch Jim Brown play and can't really refute when someone argues he was for example.  

 

Basketball has a similar debate - Lebron is going to hold more records, more stats, more Finals appearances, etc than Jordan because he has played longer between coming out of High School and still playing at an elite level this late in his career nearly 40 - but doesn't mean he was a better player than Jordan.  But depending on how one views them, an argument can be made both ways.

 

But no disagreement, Brady has the resume to lock down GOAT title, and deserves it.  Still doesn't mean that head to head in their prime he was a better than Montana.  I am not even saying it was Montana, I am just saying it is a legitimate debate.  

Head to head to head, I’d take Marino. Bills win many SBs with him.  Along with his superior skills, he wouldn’t allow foolishness.