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How close is Allen to Mahomes if all things were equal?


If all things were equal...is Mahomes really that much better than Allen?  

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  1. 1. Who is the best QB in the NFL currently if all things were equal?



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They both play backyard styles at times but Allen has more turnovers and leverages his running more.  Allen is more athletic and he uses it. While I want a mobile QB I find more value in a QB the less they generate production with running. It becomes more consistent to duplicate success when you don't depend on the run. I think that's part of what can make Allen inconsistent. Mahomes is the better passing QB and at QB I want the better passer.  Changing teams or coaches wouldn't change this in my mind. 

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4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

It's the QBs job to not throw INTs. Score by run or pass makes no difference.  YPA and int% are the two most critical stats for a QB.


I concur. Not turning the ball over is an important aspect of the job. Fumbles should be added as well. Looking at both guys’ career stats in that area makes this thread even sillier. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree...  Sometimes Josh is superhuman.  Sometimes he makes plays with his arm and/or legs and my jaw drops to the floor as I think, "No one else could do that!"

 

But is that the true measure of a QB?  Brady rarely made plays that other QBs couldn't make.  But he was special for a long time because of his presnap reads, consistency, drive to win, ability to elevate the team around him, etc.  When you put it all together, I think Mahomes is considered the best in the league for good reasons.  

 If you wanted to find a successful anti comp to Allen it would probably be Montana or Brady. It sort of feels like Mahomes has a smidge of that going on. What "that" stands for is just doing boring things consistently and better than others. It's not the super human stuff. Allen is probably the best at that of all time at this point.  If a QB could win an award for most fun to watch Allen would have won every year since 2020 hands down. 

Edited by Mikie2times
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1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

 If you wanted to find a successful anti comp to Allen it would probably be Montana or Brady. It sort of feels like Mahomes has a smidge of that going on. What "that" stands for is just doing boring things consistently and better than others. It's not the super human stuff. Allen is probably the best at that of all time at this point. 


Such a great point. Do the mundane well under pressure is what separates the best of the best. I know it’s a different sports but look at what happened to Mcllroy at the US Open a couple weeks ago. Prime Tiger would not have missed 2 short putts like that to close out a major. Handling pressure successfully is part of the package for elite athletes. 

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I look at it this way, if I'm starting from scratch in a real-life fantasy draft, I'm picking Josh Allen to lead my team. 

 

I would've always chosen Rodgers over Brady too.

 

Or Favre over Aikman. Or Elway over Montana.

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They are the modern Brady and Manning.  All Josh needs is one freaking Super Bowl and the rest of the world will mention them in the same breath.

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For only one reason, I voted for Mahomes, that reason is that Mahomes will choose a short / check down pass to move the chains more effectively than our guy Josh, out side of that Allen is his equal to better, now I could be dead wrong with this assessment, but at this moment I think that I am correct, 😁👍🍸🚬

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Mahomes has had the all time security blank in Kelce and he is MEGA-clutch in the post season.

 

Allen hasn't had anything CLOSE to that.

 

If that was reversed, Allen and the Bills have 3 SB rings and Mahomes has none right now looking to break through.

 

Allen started out his career with the worst possible offense imaginable and had to work from there. Mahomes started his career with THREE HOFers in HC Andy Reid, Hill and Kelce. 

 

Point being, I don't take a darn thing away from Mahomes as he might go down as the greatest QB to ever play, but it's Allen all day, every day. 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree...  Sometimes Josh is superhuman.  Sometimes he makes plays with his arm and/or legs and my jaw drops to the floor as I think, "No one else could do that!"

 

But is that the true measure of a QB?  Brady rarely made plays that other QBs couldn't make.  But he was special for a long time because of his presnap reads, consistency, drive to win, ability to elevate the team around him, etc.  When you put it all together, I think Mahomes is considered the best in the league for good reasons.  

Ever since Mahomes started racking up rings, he makes it look like being a quarterback is easy. All he does is call the play, complete the pass, score the touchdown. Prior to the last few years, he made a lot more insane hero plays like Allen does.

I was super excited when I saw how Allen look under Dorsey, because I felt that McD finally got it, that to win the big games consistently, your QB has to be boring. I've thought from the very beginning that Allen needed to be housebroken, and it looked like it was happening, despite the fact that he clearly didn't like it and was struggling with it. Instead, they abandoned that plan and let him go back to doing what he wants.

It makes for a hell of a show, but it doesn't get you rings. It gets you blaming kickers, and punters, and WRs, because you start getting a ton of "did you see that play Allen made! How could his team let him down like that?". I'd rather Allen throw the ball at the top of his drop to Cook who's 4 yards downfield, in stride, than watch him throw the best pass anyone's ever seen across his body while falling down, right on the fingers of a guy 49 yards downfield. Give me that boring, high percentage play instead. If you need a hero, with 30 seconds left, you have one. Give me a game manager the other 59:30

14 minutes ago, eball said:

They are the modern Brady and Manning.  All Josh needs is one freaking Super Bowl and the rest of the world will mention them in the same breath.

Manning is my favorite player of all time, but he was a clear #2 to Brady by the end, and he's behind Mahomes now.

Edited by BullBuchanan
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2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

It makes for a hell of a show, but it doesn't get you rings.

 

Bull-s-h-i-t-e.  Josh Allen hasn’t done a damn thing to lose playoff games for the Buffalo Bills, and his playoff numbers hold salt against anyone.

 

It’s a team game, and the Bills just haven’t been good enough.

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27 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I look at it this way, if I'm starting from scratch in a real-life fantasy draft, I'm picking Josh Allen to lead my team. 

 

I would've always chosen Rodgers over Brady too.

 

Or Favre over Aikman. Or Elway over Montana.

That's because you know ball 

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2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Bull-s-h-i-t-e.  Josh Allen hasn’t done a damn thing to lose playoff games for the Buffalo Bills, and his playoff numbers hold salt against anyone.

 

It’s a team game, and the Bills just haven’t been good enough.

Right. That's why so many in Bills fandom spent the offseason calling out Diggs, Bass and crying about a punter we released that's never played in the league.

Meanwhile MVS, Sky Moore, And Kadarius Toney have SB Rings.

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2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Right. That's why so many in Bills fandom spent the offseason calling out Diggs, Bass and crying about a punter we released that's never played in the league.

Meanwhile MVS, Sky Moore, And Kadarius Toney have SB Rings.

 

Team game.  Your post only serves to emphasize my point.

 

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1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Team game.  Your post only serves to emphasize my point.

 

Then you took the wrong meaning from it. We had a superior offense, and still lost with the ball in our hand. A couple better decisions from Allen and and the game never comes down to a kicker.

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3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

i've done this topic front and back

 

how about this- you always jump in when there's criticism of Allen to be had. i'm on record saying McDermott is a mid HC...i want to hear you admit you believe the reason we don't have a SB is Allen.

The reason we don’t have an SB?

 

yeah, it’s absolutely partially Allen. 
 

He was trash in 2019 in the second half vs Houston. Trash in AFC title game in 2020. Trash in the 2022 Bengals game. 
 

He’s also seemingly had the bad luck to slump just enough in the middle of the season to cost us the one seed a couple times. Kinda wild that he’s NEVER been the one seed before Tannehill or Lamar Jackson. 

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14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The reason we don’t have an SB?

 

yeah, it’s absolutely partially Allen. 
 

He was trash in 2019 in the second half vs Houston. Trash in AFC title game in 2020. Trash in the 2022 Bengals game. 
 

He’s also seemingly had the bad luck to slump just enough in the middle of the season to cost us the one seed a couple times. Kinda wild that he’s NEVER been the one seed before Tannehill or Lamar Jackson. 

QB A- 314 yards/game in the playoffs, averages 2.5TDs/game and throws .44 INTs/game

QB B- 282 yards/game in the playoffs, averages 1.98TDs/game and throws .83 INTs/game

 

QB C- 330 yards/game in the playoffs, averages 2.7TDs/game and throws .4 INTs/game

 

who we taking

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1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

QB A- 314 yards/game in the playoffs, averages 2.5TDs/game and throws .44 INTs/game

QB B- 282 yards/game in the playoffs, averages 1.98TDs/game and throws .83 INTs/game

 

QB C- 330 yards/game in the playoffs, averages 2.7TDs/game and throws .4 INTs/game

 

who we taking

The one who wins. 

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1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree...  Sometimes Josh is superhuman.  Sometimes he makes plays with his arm and/or legs and my jaw drops to the floor as I think, "No one else could do that!"

 

But is that the true measure of a QB?  Brady rarely made plays that other QBs couldn't make.  But he was special for a long time because of his presnap reads, consistency, drive to win, ability to elevate the team around him, etc.  When you put it all together, I think Mahomes is considered the best in the league for good reasons.  

 

I get that, and no argument from me.  But I will add in that Mahomes started off getting to sit behind Alex Smith while learning from Andy Reid and working with HOF offensive talent around him.  Then you have Allen, who started off with Nathan Peterman as the top QB on the roster, got thrown into starting in the 2nd half of his first game, while playing for a team that was tearing the roster down before it could begin a rebuild process the next season with a first time HC who was a DC previously and has had 3 OC's in the past 4 seasons as well.  So there is no way that some of that doesn't impact some of those things above.

 

And as far as drive to win and elevating the guys around him, there is no denying that they are at least equal in both.  Every WR that has come to Buffalo has had their best seasons of their career with Allen by definitive amounts.  He has made bums like Robert Foster look like he belongs in the NFL even.  And Allen is as competitive and driven to win as any player in the league, and few can match him in those categories (Mahomes being one for sure though).  

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