Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: This is maybe the worst and least informed mock draft I can remember to have ever read in any year. I feel like this guy stole time from my life I can't get back. Agree this mock is as bad as the mock and real drafts of Mike Mayock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think you are over thinking AJE to be honest. DE was a major need and he was the top DE in a weak draft to find edge help. So weak, the top guy fell to us in the 2nd and he was the clear BPA and a pretty obvious choice for the Bills, so I think the arm connection here with Groot is more coincidence than a trait they covet to the point they would reach for a day 3 prospect at pick 28. And no disrespect, but I have to disagree about it being "not uncommon" to be mocked in the first. I have a hard time believing there are a lot of other mocks out there where he goes in the first given he is more often seen as a day 3 pick with potential to maybe go day 2. Edge does fall off early, so I can see him maybe getting into the 2nd round for teams in dire need of help there. But if I was to guess today, I think he more likely goes in the 3rd. I admit, anything is possible, so won't say never...but I would honestly be stunned to see him go in the first as he would be a massive reach and no where near BPA at any pick in the first IMHO. I can see the 2nd, edge drops off early, so a team desperate for help might reach. But at 28 and in this Mock, there are higher graded Edge guys still available before he has Kneeland go. But my comment on how bad this mock draft is was directed at the overall draft. I just felt like its a crazy mock top to bottom and I think its one of the worse ones I have seen overall. I posted the other notable mocks in the last thread. They're growing considerably the last few weeks. I don't think I'm overthinking both AJE and Groot. They were both top 3 in arm length and wing span for the draft classes they belong to. Unless you think those weren't qualities we pursue and that was just random? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: I posted the other notable mocks in the last thread. They're growing considerably the last few weeks. I don't think I'm overthinking both AJE and Groot. They were both top 3 in arm length and wing span for the draft classes they belong to. Unless you think those weren't qualities we pursue and that was just random? AJE didn’t go in the first though… he went at the end of the second … Groot had better production against better opposition… AJE was actually a first round guy that fell so the opposite as to what we are seeing with Kneeland … 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said: I have a hard time coming to terms with the on-paper downgrade at WR from last year that we would have with 2 second tier rookies penciled in for large roles. It would signify to me a rebuild/reset year. Generally the draft had been considered replenishment for the future - not filling immediate needs. The idea of a second tier WR being the Diggs replacement isn't right. Either a big 3 as Diggs replacement with a FA WR (OBJ/M Thomas) or a trade for a vet WR. I think J Jeff/Aiyuk/Higgins are too expensive ($ + draft capital) but there are others - D Metcalf/C Godwin/DHop/DJ Moore. 3 of the top 6 rookie pass catchers from 2023 were taken after the first round. One of the six was a TE. So only 2 of top six were first round and both were taken after pick 20. Diggs as you know was a 4th round pick. After the top 3 guys in this draft, the next ten probably have a good a chance as any to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 This is the worst Bills mock I have seen. Absolutely horrendous on all levels. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: I posted the other notable mocks in the last thread. They're growing considerably the last few weeks. I don't think I'm overthinking both AJE and Groot. They were both top 3 in arm length and wing span for the draft classes they belong to. Unless you think those weren't qualities we pursue and that was just random? I think it was coincidence like I said. AJE was BPA at a clear position of need, I don’t think they targeted him on just his arms, everyone knew he was our pick when we were on the clock there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 51 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Jeremiah has Kneeland as his 45th best player. I don't profess to know anything. Why do you think he sucks? I don't see any pass rush ability at all. I have no idea how he rushes the passer at the next level. He isn't a bull rusher. He doesn't have elite get off. He doesn't have elite bend. He doesn't have great hand usage. If he hits I'll hold my hands up but he is like a worse version of Boogie Basham (who DJ had #54 in 2021) IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 4 minutes ago, H2o said: This is the worst Bills mock I have seen. Absolutely horrendous on all levels. Mustapha at 144 and Van Pran at 163 would be nice picks … I can see the Bills picking Ulofoshio in the 6th … not the fourth … maybe swap him for Van Pran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think it was coincidence like I said. AJE was BPA at a clear position of need, I don’t think they targeted him on just his arms, everyone knew he was our pick when we were on the clock there. I never said the Bills drafted Groot and AJ on "Just arms". That notion is ridiculous. Arm lengths is one of the more coveted traits in pass rushers. Some teams trust analytics in this regard more than others. They clearly liked Groot and AJ. They both also happened to be two of the longest edge players in the drafts they were chosen. Kneeland also happens to have the same stand out length Groot and AJ had and he visited with the Bills. I don't even know what we are debating here. The hypothetical possibility of the Bills making this selection when neither of us has a clue? It's not like he's my horse in the race. If you don't think a chance exists the Bills pick him..... ok? I hope you're right. Edited April 22 by Mikie2times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said: I have a hard time coming to terms with the on-paper downgrade at WR from last year that we would have with 2 second tier rookies penciled in for large roles. It would signify to me a rebuild/reset year. Generally the draft had been considered replenishment for the future - not filling immediate needs. The idea of a second tier WR being the Diggs replacement isn't right. Either a big 3 as Diggs replacement with a FA WR (OBJ/M Thomas) or a trade for a vet WR. I think J Jeff/Aiyuk/Higgins are too expensive ($ + draft capital) but there are others - D Metcalf/C Godwin/DHop/DJ Moore. I think this is a mini-rebuild - of course they will not say that publicly. I want a Wr in the first or early 2nd too, but to be fair, Diggs wasn’t even considered a 2nd or 3rd tier WR in his draft. Again, not advocating to wait and certainly not to wait for WR because of Marshawn Kneeland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: 3 of the top 6 rookie pass catchers from 2023 were taken after the first round. One of the six was a TE. So only 2 of top six were first round and both were taken after pick 20. Diggs as you know was a 4th round pick. After the top 3 guys in this draft, the next ten probably have a good a chance as any to succeed. Only 1 rookie was in the top 30 WRs in yards last year. Thinking we can get a Diggs replacement for 2024 with a rookie is extremely wishful thinking. The second tier WRs, IMO, are fine as part of the fill-in with Samuel to replace G Davis, but not Diggs. I just still can't believe Beane is going to do a rebuild/reset, smack in the middle of Josh's prime. I think all of Beane's talk about we're fine at WR is an attempt to keep expectations low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said: Only 1 rookie was in the top 30 WRs in yards last year. Thinking we can get a Diggs replacement for 2024 with a rookie is extremely wishful thinking. The second tier WRs, IMO, are fine as part of the fill-in with Samuel to replace G Davis, but not Diggs. I just still can't believe Beane is going to do a rebuild/reset, smack in the middle of Josh's prime. I think all of Beane's talk about we're fine at WR is an attempt to keep expectations low. Oh I see what you mean now. Agree. No WR even the top 3 guys would match what Diggs produced. My thought is you get a guy or two and hope the offense is more diverse with Kincaid, Cook, Knox, and Samuel getting lots of opportunities. Are you advocating trading draft pick for a veteran? FYI I don't believe anything Beane says. The only truthful statement he made was the Bills are worse without Diggs. There is no way he believes the WR group is ok. Honestly if he drafted 3 WR it would be less shocking than if he takes an edge in round 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said: I think this is a mini-rebuild - of course they will not say that publicly. I want a Wr in the first or early 2nd too, but to be fair, Diggs wasn’t even considered a 2nd or 3rd tier WR in his draft. Again, not advocating to wait and certainly not to wait for WR because of Marshawn Kneeland. Diggs was a top tier WR when the Bills got him. Now they need a big time talent to replace him. For 2024 that is not a second tier WR. I want a Diggs type replacement and a WR in the first or early second to replace G Davis. A mini-rebuild in Josh's prime is unacceptable to me. The idea that the Bills WR room is 2 second tier rookies/Samuel/and Shakir is frightening to me. It would be by far Beane's worst year. I don't think this will be the case and all of Beane's talk to the contrary is just setting expectations low. He must (I hope) be working all the angles frantically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think it was coincidence like I said. AJE was BPA at a clear position of need, I don’t think they targeted him on just his arms, everyone knew he was our pick when we were on the clock there. It is a long developed history going back to Carolina though that they like long arms. Again Beane's drafting preferences are very Carolina. 34 inch plus arms are definitely a preferred trait for their edge guys. Not saying they just pick guys on arm length but it IS a singificant factor in the edge guys they like IMO. I really hope they don't draft Kneeland. I didn't like the Basham pick and I'd like this even less. But I do think they likely think he is an option at #60. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 8 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: In a sea of crappy mock drafts, this guy manages to stand out. That was a steaming pile of hot garbage. Yeah, that's my opinion too. Marshawn Kneeland is a big time reach in round one. Roman Wilson is a good receiver and a reasonable value in round 2, but a near clone of Shakir and Samuel. The Bills are left with hoping Shorter, Hollins or Shavers can be a big time athletic receiver with size on the outside. The later rounds are OK I guess, except that Cody Schrader still doesn't get them a big change of pace running back who can give them tough yards in a short yardage situation. It's the first two rounds that make this mock a disaster for Buffalo. Edited April 22 by BigAl2526 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said: So what’s the plan then to replace him ? Find a scrub that’s left in FA ? Or just hope he comes good? The Bills had Kneeland in for a visit … and I don’t think he was there to provide some intel on the other Western Michigan prospects … he has got to be in play with their second …..looks like he is not going to last that long … but they are still going to have a hole to fill if you are right .. In Beane takes him at 28..he has officially jumped the shark I don't think they have a shot to get a starting edge this year in the draft unless one of the top 3 and maybe Chop falls in round 1. My three round 2 grades are all 3-4 OLBs. I wouldn't force it. If I have to live with a timeshare of a washed Von and AJE for a year then so be it. You can't make someone the answer just by overdrafting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think they have a shot to get a starting edge this year in the draft unless one of the top 3 and maybe Chop falls in round 1. My three round 2 grades are all 3-4 OLBs. I wouldn't force it. If I have to live with a timeshare of a washed Von and AJE for a year then so be it. You can't make someone the answer just by overdrafting them. Agree. Much rather draft edge in round 2. My distaste for AJE is well documented. I think the corpse of Von will rise and have 9 sacks this year. AJE will have 3 in the first 6 weeks and then disappear again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think they have a shot to get a starting edge this year in the draft unless one of the top 3 and maybe Chop falls in round 1. My three round 2 grades are all 3-4 OLBs. I wouldn't force it. If I have to live with a timeshare of a washed Von and AJE for a year then so be it. You can't make someone the answer just by overdrafting them. I agree completely. They need reinforcements in a lot of areas for this year and next, find the best players they can at each pick with obvious preference for need, but with needs at WR, DE, CB, DT (Oliver backup and to replace Daquan Jones in 25) and S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 3 hours ago, noacls said: You think they don't need LBs? Did you watch KC playoff game? Did you see we were missing Milano and Bernard, Spector in that game? Oh and we signed a LB in the off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think they have a shot to get a starting edge this year in the draft unless one of the top 3 and maybe Chop falls in round 1. My three round 2 grades are all 3-4 OLBs. I wouldn't force it. If I have to live with a timeshare of a washed Von and AJE for a year then so be it. You can't make someone the answer just by overdrafting them. Im actually not that keen on Chop at 28 to be honest … If Von is really washed as you say .. then Edge is by far the biggest need on the team, way bigger than WR … .. to say they are even threadbare would be an overstatement… they haven’t replaced Floyd yet That they have done nothing aside from paying Toohill the vet minimum makes me think they have been eyeballing Miller over the offseason and are ok with him… on the other hand … if they take Kneeland at 28…then that’s out the window Edited April 22 by Aussie Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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