Allen makes history again- this is a big 1

[Aimee75]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We have top 3 defense for a couple years with Allen. 

You really believe this? You didn't side eye The Bills 2021 defense that performed well against bottom of the barrel teams, but could not contain decent to great offenses(Titans, Colts, Pats run game, Bucs, Chiefs in the divsional?) It's not like Josh and our offense didn't keep putting the team in a position to go to it's 2nd AFCCG in a row, only to be undone by the defense. If our defense was so great, 13 seconds would never have happened.

 

2020 our defense was terrible. 2021 and 2022 they were improved, but again, injuries and beating up on bad teams and allowing a lot of yards against good ones.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There's no need to diminish anything. This is a great stat.

 

I didn't even bring up Mahomes. You engaged someone else who did. And of course, the reason that Josh broke Mahomes' stat, today, is because Patrick didn't start his first season.  Who could argue this?

 

And Mahomes being in the Chiefs' offense has nothing to do with him being up there? 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

And Mahomes being in the Chiefs' offense has nothing to do with him being up there? 

That had a lot to do with it too!

 

Josh also being in the Bills' offense has a lot to do with it as well.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

And there's still at least 6 more games to add to that record and if it includes post season would possibly give him up to 10 more games potentially to add to record.

 

 

 

 

The records are for regular season only.

[Alphadawg7]

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There's no need to diminish anything. This is a great stat.

 

I didn't even bring up Mahomes. You engaged someone else who did. And of course, the reason that Josh broke Mahomes' stat, today, is because Patrick didn't start his first season.  Who could argue this?

Who could argue that Josh did it with less and still has not finishing his 6th year and by the time he does he could very well still have the record if you remove Allen’s first 15 games to match Mahomes starts?  Yet here we are with people arguing and diminishing Allen’s record before he’s even finished establishing what the record is.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That had a lot to do with it too!

 

Josh also being in the Bills' offense has a lot to do with it as well.

 

I think having Reid as his OC is a huge advantage.  If/when McD gets canned, they should look for a top OC to be next HC.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Who could argue that Josh did it with less and still has not finishing his 6th year and by the time he does he could very well still have the record if you remove Allen’s first 15 games to match Mahomes starts?  Yet here we are with people arguing and diminishing Allen’s record before he’s even finished establishing what the record is.  

What is more impressive of a stat, to you? 
 

X is the fastest to Y total TD’s, doing it in Z starts.

 

X has the most total TD’s in W years.

[Alphadawg7]

34 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Post after post of this drivel but nah I’m not putting down Mahomes to prop up Allen. lol 

Doubt it. 

Exactly! They’re both great QBs and great guys! Some people can’t talk up our guy without disparaging other guys. Especially the consensus best qb in the league. 

Geezus man…pointing out Allen had less to work with is not diminishing Mahomes at all.  It’s like this board has a reading comprehension problem this morning.

 

Since when are indisputable facts a an insult to another player?  Does it make Mahomes less great?  NO, not at all.  It makes Allen’s accomplishment more impressive considering, but in literally no way, like 0% does it diminish Mahomes, his status as the top guy, etc.  

But if you want to keep misreading, misinterpreting, and inventing your own narratives about a very factual and clear statement of fact, then so be it.  But literally NOT ONE person is saying Allen is better than Mahomes over this record even though you’re trying to spin it if they are.  
 

Facts are:  Mahomes started with a great roster around him, Allen didn’t.  Allen still persevered despite the challenges he had to go through.  That is simply an impressive accomplishment for Allen, not in anyway a slight at Mahomes.  

 

And Allen still has 6 more games to further extend his lead that could make the first season a moot point too. 
 

 

Just now, FireChans said:

What is more impressive of a stat, to you? 
 

X is the fastest to Y total TD’s, doing it in Z starts.

 

X has the most total TD’s in W years.

1.  Who cares.

 

2.  You realize Allen could easily own both records by season end right?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Geezus man…pointing out Allen had less to work with is not diminishing Mahomes at all.  It’s like this board has a reading comprehension problem this morning.

 

Since when are indisputable facts a an insult to another player?  Does it make Mahomes less great?  NO, not at all.  It makes Allen’s accomplishment more impressive considering, but in literally no way, like 0% does it diminish Mahomes, his status as the top guy, etc.  

But if you want to keep misreading, misinterpreting, and inventing your own narratives about a very factual and clear statement of fact, then so be it.  But literally NOT ONE person is saying Allen is better than Mahomes over this record even though you’re trying to spin it if they are.  
 

Facts are:  Mahomes started with a great roster around him, Allen didn’t.  Allen still persevered despite the challenges he had to go through.  That is simply an impressive accomplishment for Allen, not in anyway a slight at Mahomes.  

 

And Allen still has 6 more games to further extend his lead that could make the first season a moot point too. 
 

 

1.  Who cares.

 

2.  You realize Allen could easily own both records by season end right?

You clearly care quite a bit.

 

Josh Allen is awesome. I think he's the second best QB in football. That's pretty great. Glad we have him.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You clearly care quite a bit.

 

Josh Allen is awesome. I think he's the second best QB in football. That's pretty great. Glad we have him.

 

You realize Allen only played 8 more games than Mahomes did right?  To pretend that the talent around Mahomes and Allen to start their careers didn't factor into those 8 games is pretty ridiculous.  

 

None of that means Allen is "better" than Mahomes, it means Allens accomplishment is worthy of the credit he gets for it.  

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You're joking with your "fun fact," right?

Facts don’t care about you feelings!

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com//players/H/HillTy00.htm?__hstc=205977932.b3205eb46cfaaea433c49604b57718de.1700494694113.1700494694113.1700494694113.1&__hssc=205977932.1.1700494694113&__hsfp=2789256917

 

through 2 seasons, KB (a first rounder so he was though had almost 2,000 receiving yards.  Hill (5th rounder) , first 2 seasons with Alex Smith, 1,700 yards. Hardly HOFer. Then entered Mahomes.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Facts don’t care about you feelings!

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com//players/H/HillTy00.htm?__hstc=205977932.b3205eb46cfaaea433c49604b57718de.1700494694113.1700494694113.1700494694113.1&__hssc=205977932.1.1700494694113&__hsfp=2789256917

 

through 2 seasons, KB (a first rounder so he was though had almost 2,000 receiving yards.  Hill (5th rounder) , first 2 seasons with Alex Smith, 1,700 yards. Hardly HOFer. Then entered Mahomes.

 

Your facts are feelings.  Benjamin barely squeaked-out a 1,000 yard season his rookie year (3 years before joining the Bills) and got worse as his career went on, playing his last season the year after he went to the Bills.  Hill got 1,000 yards his 2nd season in the NFL (Mahomes' rookie season) and has been putting up better numbers without Mahomes.  Both he and Kelce (who averaged ~1,100 yards/season with Smith and fewer targets) were already on HOF paths.  Benjamin and Clay would have to buy tickets to the HOF to get in.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Doc

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think having Reid as his OC is a huge advantage.  If/when McD gets canned, they should look for a top OC to be next HC.

You know Allen’s rookie year OC became a head coach and was coach of the year right?

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Your facts are feelings.  Benjamin barely squeaked-out a 1,000 yard season his rookie year (3 years before joining the Bills) and got worse as his career went on, playing his last season the year after he went to the Bills.  Hill got 1,000 yards his 2nd season in the NFL (Mahomes' rookie season) and has been putting up better numbers without Mahomes.  Both he and Kelce (who averaged ~1,100 yards/season with Smith and fewer targets) were already on HOF paths.  Benjamin and Clay would have to buy tickets to the HOF to get in.

You said a lot to not change a single thing I said. Who had a better start to their career after 2 years - Benjamin or Hill? What happened in Hill’s 3 year? When are the most successful years of Kelce’s career - pre or post Mahomes?

 

 

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You realize Allen only played 8 more games than Mahomes did right?  To pretend that the talent around Mahomes and Allen to start their careers didn't factor into those 8 games is pretty ridiculous.  

 

None of that means Allen is "better" than Mahomes, it means Allens accomplishment is worthy of the credit he gets for it.  

8 games is a lot of games man. That’s like half a season extra. That’s near 10% of their total starts.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

8 games is a lot of games man. That’s like half a season extra. That’s near 10% of their total starts.

 

You didnt answer my question though, and you are ignoring the fact that Josh still has 6 games to go.  By seasons end its MORE than likely, that even if you back out Allens first 8 games to match Mahomes that he will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes.  

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You know Allen’s rookie year OC became a head coach and was coach of the year right?

You said a lot to not change a single thing I said. Who had a better start to their career after 2 years - Benjamin or Hill? What happened in Hill’s 3 year? When are the most successful years of Kelce’s career - pre or post Mahomes?

 

Good point about Daboll.  His offenses in Jersey haven't been nearly as good as they were in Buffalo and it is terrible this year.  Meaning offensive personnel (also) matters.

 

And who cares how Benjamin started?  He was a bum by the time he got to the Bills and was soon gone from the league because he didn't put in the effort.  Meanwhile Hill's production has gotten even better without Mahomes.  So that means that Tua is better, right?

[JujuFish]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You didnt answer my question though, and you are ignoring the fact that Josh still has 6 games to go.  By seasons end its MORE than likely, that even if you back out Allens first 8 games to match Mahomes that he will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes.  

Mahomes after 80 games: 204. Allen after 80 games: 182

Mahomes after 88 games: 219. Allen after 88 games: 206

Mahomes in games 81-88: 15. Allen in games 81-88: 24

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. By the end of the season, Allen will have played, barring injury, 14 more games than Mahomes in his first six seasons. And why would you take away Allen's first X games? What's the argument there?

[Alphadawg7]

47 minutes ago, FireChans said:

8 games is a lot of games man. That’s like half a season extra. That’s near 10% of their total starts.

 

Here is the math:  Josh Allen has 6 more games to get finish his 6 seasons.  He is on pace for 45 total TD's this year (16 more than he has now).  

 

If Allen stays on pace and finishes with 45 he will have 221 for his career through 6 seasons.  Mahomes has 204, but Mahomes only played the final game of his rookie year and Allen played 12 games his rookie year.  If you back out the first 11 games of Allens Rookie year to match Mahomes, Allen will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes with 208 vs 204.

 

So this whole thing about Mahomes not playing his rookie year is really not a legit counter point to the validity of Allens record as he will likely not only officially own the record, but will also have produced more than Mahomes over their first 5 seasons and 1 rookie year game that everyone is using for Mahomes. 

 

And none of that means one QB is better than the other...it means Allens record is legit and even more impressive considering he was saddled with no talent around him on a gutted and rebuilding franchise for the first 2 years to start his career and was also a raw prospect coming in who didn't have the benefit of sitting and learning the game either.  

 

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You know Allen’s rookie year OC became a head coach and was coach of the year right?

You said a lot to not change a single thing I said. Who had a better start to their career after 2 years - Benjamin or Hill? What happened in Hill’s 3 year? When are the most successful years of Kelce’s career - pre or post Mahomes?

 

 

 

If Allen stays on pace, if you remove all but the last game of Allens rookie year, he will still have more TD's than Mahomes while having only the one game of his rookie year just like Mahomes.  If that happens, how will you dispute the validity of Allens record then?

 

17 minutes ago, JujuFish said:

Mahomes after 80 games: 204. Allen after 80 games: 182

Mahomes after 88 games: 219. Allen after 88 games: 206

Mahomes in games 81-88: 15. Allen in games 81-88: 24

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. By the end of the season, Allen will have played, barring injury, 14 more games than Mahomes in his first six seasons. And why would you take away Allen's first X games? What's the argument there?

 

The argument is that Mahomes didn't play the first season...which is factually wrong.  He played the last game.  So I am removing Allens rookie year up to the last game JUST LIKE MAHOMES so their rookie years match.  And when you do, by seasons end, Allen will still have more TD's than Mahomes if he stays on the pace he is on now.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Superbowls are a TEAM accomplishment. 

 

You have to have a great offense, good defense (at least 15th) and good special teams.

 

And most importantly you have to have good coaching.

 

Sadly if Allen never wins a superbowl it will be because of coaching. Everything else is good enough

[JujuFish]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The argument is that Mahomes didn't play the first season...which is factually wrong.  He played the last game.  So I am removing Allens rookie year up to the last game JUST LIKE MAHOMES so their rookie years match.  And when you do, by seasons end, Allen will still have more TD's than Mahomes if he stays on the pace he is on now

I didn't argue that he didn't play his first season. In fact, my numbers include every single game he played in his first season, just like they do Allen's.  Removing Allen's games doesn't make anything sense.  Try again.

Edited November 20, 2023 by JujuFish

[FireChans]

49 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You didnt answer my question though, and you are ignoring the fact that Josh still has 6 games to go.  By seasons end its MORE than likely, that even if you back out Allens first 8 games to match Mahomes that he will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes.  

Allen likely wouldn’t have broken the record yet, if Mahomes had started his first year.

 

so sure. There’s a chance if you retroactively removed games played from Allen, he could’ve still broken the record.

 

but he wouldn’t have. Yet. 
 

Agree?

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Calidiehard said:

Not Allen's fault Mahomes didn't start or get thrown to the wolves his rookie year. 

 

He wouldn't have even gotten thrown to the wolves.  He would have went on a team that had elite weapons and made the AFCCG and were contenders with Alex Smith at QB.  Just like he did the year he started.

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We’re still trying to find ways to put down Mahomes? Stop, it’s stupid. He won the mvp and sb the year they traded Hill. 

 

I don't think anyone is putting Mahomes down.  Just pointing out the comparison works both ways.  Mahomes didn't start his first year so some dont think Josh record is as impressive.  Others are pointing out that Josh started with trash... which is 100% true.

[C.Biscuit97]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Here is the math:  Josh Allen has 6 more games to get finish his 6 seasons.  He is on pace for 45 total TD's this year (16 more than he has now).  

 

If Allen stays on pace and finishes with 45 he will have 221 for his career through 6 seasons.  Mahomes has 204, but Mahomes only played the final game of his rookie year and Allen played 12 games his rookie year.  If you back out the first 11 games of Allens Rookie year to match Mahomes, Allen will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes with 208 vs 204.

 

So this whole thing about Mahomes not playing his rookie year is really not a legit counter point to the validity of Allens record as he will likely not only officially own the record, but will also have produced more than Mahomes over their first 5 seasons and 1 rookie year game that everyone is using for Mahomes. 

 

And none of that means one QB is better than the other...it means Allens record is legit and even more impressive considering he was saddled with no talent around him on a gutted and rebuilding franchise for the first 2 years to start his career and was also a raw prospect coming in who didn't have the benefit of sitting and learning the game either.  

 

 

 

If Allen stays on pace, if you remove all but the last game of Allens rookie year, he will still have more TD's than Mahomes while having only the one game of his rookie year just like Mahomes.  If that happens, how will you dispute the validity of Allens record then?

 

 

The argument is that Mahomes didn't play the first season...which is factually wrong.  He played the last game.  So I am removing Allens rookie year up to the last game JUST LIKE MAHOMES so their rookie years match.  And when you do, by seasons end, Allen will still have more TD's than Mahomes if he stays on the pace he is on now.

Allen - 88 games, 160 td passes, 45 rushing, total 205/ 88= 2.32 tds/ game 

 

mahomes - 89 games, 209 td passes, 12 rushing tds, total 221/ 89 - 2.48 tds: game 

 

 

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

11 hours ago, Virgil said:

Can’t believe no one mentioned that Mahomes sat his first season

Because he sucked, and was sulking because the Bills traded the pick.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Allen likely wouldn’t have broken the record yet, if Mahomes had started his first year.

 

Allen likely would have broke the record much sooner and by more had he had Diggs and Beasley his rookie year too.  That game of what if goes both ways.

 

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

so sure. There’s a chance if you retroactively removed games played from Allen, he could’ve still broken the record.

 

but he wouldn’t have. Yet. 
 

Agree?

 

So let me see if I get this straight...Allen already owns the official record and did it in 5 seasons and 4 games because he missed 6 games due to injury and still has 6 games to play this year.  I mean its not his fault Mahomes didn't beat out Alex Smith as a rookie to start sooner.  

 

But if Allen keeps his current pace and ends up with 45 TD's, if we then ignore every game but Allens last game as a rookie to match Mahomes  rookie year and he STILL has more TD's than Mahomes you are saying it STILL won't be legit?  

 

So no matter how many ways Allen gets more TD's than Mahomes it will never be a valid record by your eyes is what I get from you.  Which is just crazy to me.  

 

And Allen's record does NOT mean Allen is better than Mahomes, it means Allen set the record for most total TD's in NFL history over first 6 seasons...and he didn't need 6 seasons to do it, he has done it in 5 seasons and 4 games (he missed 6 due to injury and he still has 6 left to play this year).  And considering he started on a rebuilding team with scrubs as weapons his early years, that is quite the accomplishment.  

[GoBills808]

I don't see why the fact that Allen is a touchdown machine is so offensive to people😂😂

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Allen likely would have broke the record much sooner and by more had he had Diggs and Beasley his rookie year too.  That game of what if goes both ways.

 

 

So let me see if I get this straight...Allen already owns the official record and did it in 5 seasons and 4 games because he missed 6 games due to injury and still has 6 games to play this year.  I mean its not his fault Mahomes didn't beat out Alex Smith as a rookie to start sooner.  

 

But if Allen keeps his current pace and ends up with 45 TD's, if we then ignore every game but Allens last game as a rookie to match Mahomes  rookie year and he STILL has more TD's than Mahomes you are saying it STILL won't be legit?  

 

So no matter how many ways Allen gets more TD's than Mahomes it will never be a valid record by your eyes is what I get from you.  Which is just crazy to me.  

 

And Allen's record does NOT mean Allen is better than Mahomes, it means Allen set the record for most total TD's in NFL history over first 6 seasons...and he didn't need 6 seasons to do it, he has done it in 5 seasons and 4 games (he missed 6 due to injury and he still has 6 left to play this year).  And considering he started on a rebuilding team with scrubs as weapons his early years, that is quite the accomplishment.  

Your second paragraph is completely wrong lol. I would agree. 
 

I’m just saying that until that comes, it’s likely that Allen wouldn’t have broken the record yet, if Mahomes had played that full rookie year.

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't see why the fact that Allen is a touchdown machine is so offensive to people😂😂

I just want him to be a Super Bowl machine.

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Facts don’t care about you feelings!

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com//players/H/HillTy00.htm?__hstc=205977932.b3205eb46cfaaea433c49604b57718de.1700494694113.1700494694113.1700494694113.1&__hssc=205977932.1.1700494694113&__hsfp=2789256917

 

through 2 seasons, KB (a first rounder so he was though had almost 2,000 receiving yards.  Hill (5th rounder) , first 2 seasons with Alex Smith, 1,700 yards. Hardly HOFer. Then entered Mahomes.

 

Wait we're doing Kelvin Benjamin trutherism now? Cool.

 

You know what he did after getting kicked off the Bills? Went to the Chiefs. He played in one game, had a perfect Mahomes pass bounce off his chest and hit the ground, and then never played football again.

 

The irony isn't lost on me that now people are lamenting how unfair it is that Mahomes only has ONE Hall of Fame talent to throw the ball to. It's not his fault that he has to produce with the likes of R̶o̶b̶e̶r̶t̶ F̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ Marquez Valdes-Scantling, A̶n̶d̶r̶e̶ H̶o̶l̶m̶e̶s̶ Justin Watson, Z̶a̶y̶ J̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ Kadarius Toney, and K̶e̶l̶v̶i̶n̶ B̶e̶n̶j̶a̶m̶i̶n̶ Skyy Moore. And his OL isn't definitively a top 2 OL in football anymore. It's a meager top 5-ish now. How does he ever manage to move the ball forward?

 

Seriously though if you ever need a good laugh, look up the 2018 Bills starting pass catchers and OL. It was so bad that the entire fanbase fell in love with a CFL star in 2019 because by comparison he represented a huge improvement. It's seriously unbelievable that Josh Allen took any positive steps forward in his development with those first two years of BS around him. I'm not sure any QB in history would have broken this record with that awful starting point to their career.

[90sBills]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

He wouldn't have even gotten thrown to the wolves.  He would have went on a team that had elite weapons and made the AFCCG and were contenders with Alex Smith at QB.  Just like he did the year he started.

They didn’t make the AFCCG until he started. They only won 1 playoff game with Alex Smith. 

[90sBills]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Your second paragraph is completely wrong lol. I would agree. 
 

I’m just saying that until that comes, it’s likely that Allen wouldn’t have broken the record yet, if Mahomes had played that full rookie year.

Even though you’re completely correct can’t really blame the fanbase for hanging on to things like this. What else is there to tout? I’m sure if you ask Mahomes he wouldn’t care less about something as arbitrary as this record compared to his hardware. If you ask Allen I’m sure he’d say he’d rather get some hardware over this. 
 

It’s nice to have a stud qb on the Bills and that’s the important takeaway. 

[Scott7975]

11 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

They didn’t make the AFCCG until he started. They only won 1 playoff game with Alex Smith. 

 

Oh youre right my mistake.  I thought they made it one year.  That team was still good though.  Two 11-5 years, a 12-4 year the year before Mahomes started and a 10-6 year.  My point was Mahomes didn't walk onto a dumpster fire team.  He walked onto an already good team with an elite offense that just didnt get over the hump and got them over the hump with his elite play.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

One of my favorite records that he annually breaks. I think he’s been setting this record each year since 2021.
 

he’s also well on his way to his fourth straight 40+ touchdown season. do any other quarterbacks even have three straight such seasons?

[90sBills]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Oh youre right my mistake.  I thought they made it one year.  That team was still good though.  Two 11-5 years, a 12-4 year the year before Mahomes started and a 10-6 year.  My point was Mahomes didn't walk onto a dumpster fire team.  He walked onto an already good team with an elite offense that just didnt get over the hump and got them over the hump with his elite play.

Oh completely agree. They had some superbowl worthy teams except for the quarterback. Their defense was stellar with Alex Smith. 

[Warcodered]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wait we're doing Kelvin Benjamin trutherism now? Cool.

 

You know what he did after getting kicked off the Bills? Went to the Chiefs. He played in one game, had a perfect Mahomes pass bounce off his chest and hit the ground, and then never played football again.

 

The irony isn't lost on me that now people are lamenting how unfair it is that Mahomes only has ONE Hall of Fame talent to throw the ball to. It's not his fault that he has to produce with the likes of R̶o̶b̶e̶r̶t̶ F̶o̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ Marquez Valdes-Scantling, A̶n̶d̶r̶e̶ H̶o̶l̶m̶e̶s̶ Justin Watson, Z̶a̶y̶ J̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ Kadarius Toney, and K̶e̶l̶v̶i̶n̶ B̶e̶n̶j̶a̶m̶i̶n̶ Skyy Moore. And his OL isn't definitively a top 2 OL in football anymore. It's a meager top 5-ish now. How does he ever manage to move the ball forward?

 

Seriously though if you ever need a good laugh, look up the 2018 Bills starting pass catchers and OL. It was so bad that the entire fanbase fell in love with a CFL star in 2019 because by comparison he represented a huge improvement. It's seriously unbelievable that Josh Allen took any positive steps forward in his development with those first two years of BS around him. I'm not sure any QB in history would have broken this record with that awful starting point to their career.

Seriously Kelvin Benjin fell out of the league like a stone sinking into a lake. From that 2018 roster the only starters we kept were Dawkins and Zay Jones who would not last the season, I suppose you could count McKenzie since he was brought in late in 2018 and was on the roster in 2019 also Foster though he wasn't a starter going into 2018 as PS WR but everyone was terrible and he was the only one making plays. Unfortunately Foster forgot about that in 2019. I didn't forget about the O-line Dawkins was the only starter we kept and the rest didn't start anywhere else going into 2019.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 hours ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

Idgaf what anyone says.

 

OUR QB1 has the most TDs in his first 6 years in the history of the league! 

 

*****in S.T.U.D!

Good. Because anyone who tells you differently is a liar.