Coordinator Options for 2024

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I simply don't agree. I think they collapsed in the final 2 minutes against KC in 2021. They had played a decent game until that point. Some of that was on coaching. A bunch of it was execution and talent. 

 

In 2022 yes they stunk against the Bengals. But the whole team did. They played like zombies. If the loss last weel reassured me of anything it is that you can throw that playoff game out. The Bengals might well have beaten the Bills in the playoffs last year even if the Bills turned up. But it would have looked much more like last week looked where the Bills clung on in the game and competed their asses off.

 

Leslie is a darn good football coach and I'd re-hire him as DC tomorrow in an ideal world. I know it isn't ever gonna happen but therr we are. Leslie was never, ever, the issue.

 

You say Leslie was never the issue, yet under McD the defense was doing better prior to losing its 3 most important players.  Leslie was here a long time...and during his time here, the defense did not play to the same level in the playoffs as it did during the regular season.  His bend don't break style not only was exposed by better teams, but it also kept those better teams in games.  And sorry, the collapse was not just the last 2 min of the game, although that was definitely the most egregious part of it.  I mean, we gave up 42 points in that game, only 17 came in the final 2 minutes.  Against the Bengals the next week, Chiefs scored just 3 points in the 2nd half vs a defense that was ranked significantly lower than ours.  

 

Again...rinse and repeat.  Bills high ranked D is exposed in playoffs...same team loses next week by being held in check by a much lower ranked defense.  And again...first across the board in all major categories on defense under McD prior to the slue of unfortunate injuries.  

 

Is Frazier a good DC...sure...but there are a lot of good coaches who have a history of not getting it done in the big games, and Frazier is firmly on that list from his own record.  Every coach in the NFL can hide behind "not enough talent on the D"...the issue here is that defense that you say "talent" was the issue would be ranked top 3 all season before laying an egg in the playoffs.  So can't tell me its lack of talent when that lack of talent can beat the KC's of the world in the regular season but can't in the playoffs. 

 

Not to mention, teams with less defensive talent are going on to beat these teams beating us the very next week.  

[DrDawkinstein]

51 minutes ago, LEBills said:

 

Predicting coordinators is hard but I’ll give it a shot

 

Potential hires for OC:

Kevin Patullo - Eagles passing game coordinator since 2021. Had a stint from 2010-12 with the Bills. 

 

Byron Leftwich - obviously won a Super Bowl with Brady and the Bucs. It was a surprise when Bowles got the HC position over him. 

DC

I think Bobby Babich is probably the most likely person to fill that spot. His position groups have been very good while he was here. 

 

 

 

Patullo is a really interesting name to me. I ran across him right after I made this thread. I dont know enough about him or his style, but I think he could be someone to watch. The Philly/McD and Patullo/Buffalo connections certainly help.

 

Leftwich is a great call as I had completely forgotten about him. Not sure what that says tho. And wasnt it really Arians and Brady who probably both had more say in the Offense than Byron?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I know @GunnerBill you have been a long time defender and supporter of Frazier, but I honestly just don't get it.  If the Miami Dolphins were a DC, they would be Leslie Frazier

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I simply don't agree. I think they collapsed in the final 2 minutes against KC in 2021. They had played a decent game until that point. Some of that was on coaching. A bunch of it was execution and talent. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You say Leslie was never the issue, yet under McD the defense was doing better prior to losing its 3 most important players.  Leslie was here a long time...and d

 

 

Get a room you two.

Edited November 10, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[gjv]

I've watched every Bills play this season. If I were to critisize the defense it would be a lack of talent at the CB position. That being said, the Bills are 5th in the league in points allowed. Not too bad considering the multitude of injuries. On offense, I would have to say lack of execution and moronic penalties are more to blame for lack of production than scheme and play calling. Even with that said, the Bills are 5th in yards/game and 5th in points per/game. Now I haven't observed how the Bills practice, so that might be where the coaching staff is failing. However, on game day, I have to say it's the inconsistent proper execution of the players that has to be blamed for the fans wanting the coach's heads to roll.

[RoyBatty is alive]

On Defense I opt for Bobby Babich, young energetic, great motivator, articulate.

[GunnerBill]

40 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You say Leslie was never the issue, yet under McD the defense was doing better prior to losing its 3 most important players.  Leslie was here a long time...and during his time here, the defense did not play to the same level in the playoffs as it did during the regular season.  His bend don't break style not only was exposed by better teams, but it also kept those better teams in games.  And sorry, the collapse was not just the last 2 min of the game, although that was definitely the most egregious part of it.  I mean, we gave up 42 points in that game, only 17 came in the final 2 minutes.  Against the Bengals the next week, Chiefs scored just 3 points in the 2nd half vs a defense that was ranked significantly lower than ours.  

 

Again...rinse and repeat.  Bills high ranked D is exposed in playoffs...same team loses next week by being held in check by a much lower ranked defense.  And again...first across the board in all major categories on defense under McD prior to the slue of unfortunate injuries.  

 

Is Frazier a good DC...sure...but there are a lot of good coaches who have a history of not getting it done in the big games, and Frazier is firmly on that list from his own record.  Every coach in the NFL can hide behind "not enough talent on the D"...the issue here is that defense that you say "talent" was the issue would be ranked top 3 all season before laying an egg in the playoffs.  So can't tell me its lack of talent when that lack of talent can beat the KC's of the world in the regular season but can't in the playoffs. 

 

Not to mention, teams with less defensive talent are going on to beat these teams beating us the very next week.  

 

So Leslie failed because of a couple of playoff games, but McDermott succeeded because of four regular season games? You realise that is an inconsistent argument, right?

 

And I think when 17 of 42 points come in the final 2 mins plus OT that is very much a collapse that was the problem. Leslie isn't blameless in that but he wasn't in the top 3 people I'd blame having actually looked at what happened. And I wasn't arguing that the Bills D lacked the talent to get it done. But at the end of that Chiefs game in particular there were two major execution errors by a former UDFA who the Bills allowed to walk on the back of it. 

 

Leslie Frazier was not the problem. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Leslie failed because of a couple of playoff games, but McDermott succeeded because of four regular season games? You realise that is an inconsistent argument, right?

 

And I think when 17 of 42 points come in the final 2 mins plus OT that is very much a collapse that was the problem. Leslie isn't blameless in that but he wasn't in the top 3 people I'd blame having actually looked at what happened. And I wasn't arguing that the Bills D lacked the talent to get it done. But at the end of that Chiefs game in particular there were two major execution errors by a former UDFA who the Bills allowed to walk on the back of it. 

 

Leslie Frazier was not the problem. 

Who are you referring to?

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Leslie failed because of a couple of playoff games, but McDermott succeeded because of four regular season games? You realise that is an inconsistent argument, right?

 

And I think when 17 of 42 points come in the final 2 mins plus OT that is very much a collapse that was the problem. Leslie isn't blameless in that but he wasn't in the top 3 people I'd blame having actually looked at what happened. And I wasn't arguing that the Bills D lacked the talent to get it done. But at the end of that Chiefs game in particular there were two major execution errors by a former UDFA who the Bills allowed to walk on the back of it. 

 

Leslie Frazier was not the problem. 

 

I didn't say McD "succeeded", I said the defense went up a level under McD in the short window we got to see it before decimation by unfortunate injuries.  

 

There were more defensive failures than just the final 2 minutes of the KC game and OT including both playoff games last year.

 

All good either way, we are never going to agree on this, and that is ok...just differing opinons  

 

But for me personally, I am open to McD bringing in or promoting someone to DC so he can focus on HC duties...but just don't want to see Frazier or anyone who runs a similar bend don't break soft defense.  

Edited November 10, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Low Positive]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't say McD "succeeded", I said the defense went up a level under McD in the short window we got to see it before decimation by unfortunate injuries.  

 

There were more defensive failures than just the final 2 minutes of the KC game and OT including both playoff games last year.

 

All good either way, we are never going to agree on this, and that is ok...just differing opinons  

 

But for me personally, I am open to McD bringing in or promoting someone to DC so he can focus on HC duties...but just don't want to see Frazier or anyone who runs a similar bend don't break soft defense.  

But most NFL defenses are like that now. It's driving fans nuts league-wide.  

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't say McD "succeeded", I said the defense went up a level under McD in the short window we got to see it before decimation by unfortunate injuries.  

 

There were more defensive failures than just the final 2 minutes of the KC game and OT including both playoff games last year.

 

All good either way, we are never going to agree on this, and that is ok...just differing opinons  

 

But for me personally, I am open to McD bringing in or promoting someone to DC so he can focus on HC duties...but just don't want to see Frazier or anyone who runs a similar bend don't break soft defense.  

 

McDermott runs a bend don't break scheme. Almost everyone in the NFL is running a bend don't break scheme. It is how you play defense in the league at this stage. You make teams play perfect football against you and put together long drives. It is why everyone is playing a lot of cover 2 shell and quarters. Defense at the moment is all about eliminating the big pass play. 

 

I am realistic it is not going to be Leslie. But to my mind McDermott should give the DC role up immediately. He hasn't done it very well. His over-reliance on the blitz has cost us one game already and had hurt us in other big spots too. And I think it is affecting his ability to be the Head Coach this team needs to pull them together right now. I'd promote Al Holcomb on an interim basis until the end of the season. Give him a shot at it then take a fresh look after the season is done. 

17 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Who are you referring to?

 

Levi.

[Shemp]

Where is Ted Marchibroda when you need him?

[BillsShredder83]

21 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Sleeper OC:

 

Wes Welker seems glued to McD’s hip on the sideline.   

Wes welker is on our staff?????

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Wes welker is on our staff?????

He is on the Dolphins staff,

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

17 hours ago, boyst said:

I love the idea and the discussion but holy ***** the candidates are so underwhelming 

 

Exactly the point.

 

It's all well and good to can McDermott, but who replaces him

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

On Defense I opt for Bobby Babich, young energetic, great motivator, articulate.

 

I'm coming around on Babich for DC.

 

 I know they're trying to promote Washington, but I think they're barking up the wrong tree with that.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Exactly the point.

 

It's all well and good to can McDermott, but who replaces him

 

 

I dont think it's too difficult to replace a DC. The OC is the tricky one.

[From Roc to Ky bills fan]

22 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Let's assume, regardless of anyone's wishes, McD is safe for one more year.

 

IMO, the best thing he could do for himself as Head Coach is show Terry and Bills Mafia that he really is the CEO of a winning team; and fire Dorsey, fire himself, and hire a new OC and new DC.

 

But who is that?

 

Offense:

On staff we have the likes of Joe Brady and Mike Shula

Any other upcoming guys hiding as QB coaches out there?

Anyone left on the 9ers staff worth looking at?

Anyone good enough to be able to take over in 2025 if McD keeps McD-ing?

 

Defense:

On staff... Eric Washington?

Brandon Staley maybe?

Would Ron Rivera do it as a bridge year? Or into retirement?

Any sleepers buried on staffs I'm not thinking about? Former players...

 

Assuming McD stays, who is your ultimate staff next year?

Please let Dabol get fired and come home 

[ProcessTruster]

love the OC (Johnson) in Detroit, but then he would need to be HC and then you must blow up the entire coaching staff and roster in the process, and that is not worth it

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

love the OC (Johnson) in Detroit, but then he would need to be HC and then you must blow up the entire coaching staff and roster in the process, and that is not worth it

 

Totally different discussion, but dont need to blow up the roster.

 

 

So sounds like, right now, I could see...

 

Head Coach - Sean McDermott

Off Coordinator - Kevin Patullo

Def Coordinator - Bobby Babich

 

Need to look more into Patullo, and other rising Offensive assistants.

Welker is an interesting name, but I'm actually worried his brain might be too scrambled for such a high level position.

[dave mcbride]

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I didn't say McD "succeeded", I said the defense went up a level under McD in the short window we got to see it before decimation by unfortunate injuries.  

 

There were more defensive failures than just the final 2 minutes of the KC game and OT including both playoff games last year.

 

All good either way, we are never going to agree on this, and that is ok...just differing opinons  

 

But for me personally, I am open to McD bringing in or promoting someone to DC so he can focus on HC duties...but just don't want to see Frazier or anyone who runs a similar bend don't break soft defense.  

You have completely lost me and your logic is baffling. In the Cincy playoff game last season, the Bills were missing arguably their most important player on D (Daquon Jones) as well as Von Miller and Hyde. They were also missing Hamlin (no great shakes, but better than who was behind him), White was a still a shell of himself, Poyer was extremely banged up (knee and elbow), and Oliver was playing with a bad arm that severely hampered him. They went down to the Bengals for a number of reasons, but defensive injuries were HIGH on the list — especially the loss of Jones. This year, you celebrate McDermott’s four games with a healthy roster. Fine. But they’ve gone to absolute crap since the injury bug hit, and it’s understandable. Not only do I think your argument makes no sense because you’re not comparing like to like and you’re also using a small early-season sample size to lionize McDermott’s D, you fall prey to an age old fallacy: it’s all the coaches and the players are interchangeable. They are not. Good players really matter, and when good players go down, it has a negative effect whoever the hell is coaching.

 

Also, by way of comparison, in the first four games of the 2022 season, a mostly healthy Bills’ D allowed on average 234.5 yards and 14.5 points per game while averaging 2.25 turnovers forced per game.

Edited November 11, 2023 by dave mcbride

[rafter]

Josh McDaniels is free to be OC

[T master]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:20 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Let's assume, regardless of anyone's wishes, McD is safe for one more year.

 

IMO, the best thing he could do for himself as Head Coach is show Terry and Bills Mafia that he really is the CEO of a winning team; and fire Dorsey, fire himself, and hire a new OC and new DC.

 

But who is that?

 

Offense:

On staff we have the likes of Joe Brady and Mike Shula

Any other upcoming guys hiding as QB coaches out there?

Anyone left on the 9ers staff worth looking at?

Anyone good enough to be able to take over in 2025 if McD keeps McD-ing?

 

Defense:

On staff... Eric Washington?

Brandon Staley maybe?

Would Ron Rivera do it as a bridge year? Or into retirement?

Any sleepers buried on staffs I'm not thinking about? Former players...

 

Assuming McD stays, who is your ultimate staff next year?

 

If McD stays try to hire Schwartz away from the Browns (always wanted him to come back after the Rex debacle)  he could be assistant HC then get rid of Dorcey if he continues on this same path & elevate Brady to OC with Shula as his QB coach & sounding board !

Then the final piece to the SB puzzle - coax Marv out of retirement as the ST coach for 1 last go and he can ride along in the parade !!!

 

GO BILLS !!!