Vikings Chad Greenway takes shot at Leslie Frazier defense

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’ll be surprised …He isn’t going to make that last playoff game go away..

 

You think that is how NFL teams think? Screw 30 years of history that 1 game defines him? Of course they don't. 

 

If Leslie wants a DC job he will have one. If he only wants to return as a HC then he is done in the NFL.

[Aussie Joe]

57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You think that is how NFL teams think? Screw 30 years of history that 1 game defines him? Of course they don't. 

 

If Leslie wants a DC job he will have one. If he only wants to return as a HC then he is done in the NFL.

The NFL is  not about what you have done over the course of your career but what you can do now  …

He isn’t exactly a sexy pick for some young OC trying to get hired to a HC gig to be sprouting off about in his interview…

 

Do you expect him to have success if he gets another gig? 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[MJS]

That's a pretty unnecessarily brutal call out, to be honest. Not sure why he felt the need to say that.

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’ll be surprised …He isn’t going to make that last playoff game go away..

Only Bills fans are thinking of that. Leslie Frazier has an excellent track record as a DC. He ran his course in Buffalo, but there are plenty of teams that would improve with him as their DC.

[Aussie Joe]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Only Bills fans are thinking of that. Leslie Frazier has an excellent track record as a DC. He ran his course in Buffalo, but there are plenty of teams that would improve with him as they’re DC.

I think most other teams fans would not be happy with him joining their team as DC

[Since1981]

Never NFL HC. 

DC, long shot. A 64 yr old DC with few  noteworthy positives. Sometimes retirement is retirement. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

The NFL is  not about what you have done over the course of your career but what you can do now  …

He isn’t exactly a sexy pick for some young OC trying to get hired to a HC gig to be sprouting off about in his interview…

 

Do you expect him to have success if he gets another gig? 

 

He is exactly the type of pick a young OC hotshot trying to get hired to a HC goes for. They tend to go for an experienced hand on the tiller at DC. Daboll went for Wink. McVay went for Wade. Shane Steichen just hired Gus Bradley. 

 

Do I expect him to have success? That's really hard to say because "success" depends so much on the situation and the players. Players are more important than coaches. They are more determinative of whether an offense / defense / team is successful or not. But do I expect Leslie Frazier to do a good job where he goes and maximise what he has? Yes, because he is a good football coach and because that is his record. He has had a top 10 defense in 8 of his 14 seasons as a Defensive Coordinator in the league. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is exactly the type of pick a young OC hotshot trying to get hired to a HC goes for. They tend to go for an experienced hand on the tiller at DC. Daboll went for Wink. McVay went for Wade. Shane Steichen just hired Gus Bradley. 

 

Do I expect him to have success? That's really hard to say because "success" depends so much on the situation and the players. Players are more important than coaches. They are more determinative of whether an offense / defense / team is successful or not. But do I expect Leslie Frazier to do a good job where he goes and maximise what he has? Yes, because he is a good football coach and because that is his record. He has had a top 10 defense in 8 of his 14 seasons as a Defensive Coordinator in the league. 

I’m keen to see how he goes if he has another gig …I think his time has come and gone … that may sound blunt but I can also respect his long career as a player and coach

 

I recall that we also had a disagreement immediately after the playoff loss (Cincy) about whether they should keep him or move him on … I certainly don’t regret the decision made.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Never NFL HC. 

DC, long shot. A 64 yr old DC with few  noteworthy positives. Sometimes retirement is retirement. 

 

Apart from all the top 10 defenses he has coordinated. If you ignore all the noteworthy positives then he definitely has no noteworthy positives....

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I’m keen to see how he goes if he has another gig …I think his time has come and gone … that may sound blunt but I can also respect his long career as a player and coach

 

What is your evidence for that other than his final game? Because despite all the Bills injuries in 2022 this guy whose time has gone coordinated the 6th ranked defense in the NFL.

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What is your evidence for that other than his final game? Because despite all the Bills injuries in 2022 this guy whose time has gone coordinated the 6th ranked defense in the NFL.

So why isn’t he there anymore?

[GunnerBill]

49 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

So why isn’t he there anymore?

 

Because he decided to step away. I think likely after McDermott decided he wanted more involvement in playcalling. Which in turn I think happened because McDermott was feeling a bit of heat after the total team no-show in the playoffs against Cincy and because I do think there is some truth to the predictability point I made earlier in the thread. I can't think of many teams that have the same DC and the same defensive core of 6 or 7 players for 5 or 6 seasons in the NFL. Might have to go back to LeBeau and the 00s Steelers for that. Teams do get a beat on what you do and it is harder to stay fresh and unpredictable. 

 

But to have the 6th ranked defensive in the NFL last year with all the injuries the Bills faced on that side of the ball was still an excellent coaching job and does not suggest a man whose time in the NFL has "come and gone" even if there is an argument to say after that length of time a change in Buffalo might have been due (call me still not persuaded on that point... though obviously I see the argument). 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because he decided to step away. I think likely after McDermott decided he wanted more involvement in playcalling. Which in turn I think happened because McDermott was feeling a bit of heat after the total team no-show in the playoffs against Cincy and because I do think there is some truth to the predictability point I made earlier in the thread. I can't think of many teams that have the same DC and the same defensive core of 6 or 7 players for 5 or 6 seasons in the NFL. Might have to go back to LeBeau and the 00s Steelers for that. Teams do get a beat on what you do and it is harder to stay fresh and unpredictable. 

 

But to have the 6th ranked defensive in the NFL last year with all the injuries the Bills faced on that side of the ball was still an excellent coaching job and does not suggest a man whose time in the NFL has "come and gone" even if there is an argument to say after that length of time a change in Buffalo might have been due (call me still not persuaded on that point... though obviously I see the argument). 

The Bengals loss was a debacle … so I expect all the coaches were feeling that including Leslie..

It’s debatable in my mind whether Leslie “stept away “ or not…the initial story seemed a bit confused about whether he was stepping away for 1 year or walking away from the job completely…is that still up in the air?

 

Given Leslie’s ambitions to become a HC … this is obviously not the way to go about achieving that goal…but again I wish the man all the best …nothing personal there about a member of the Bears  85 defence ..  

 

My thoughts on McD calling the D this year .. this in my mind will be a positive  and an upgrade from last year even with a confused position at MLB… McD is betting on himself…he won’t have a scapegoat to hide behind anymore 

 

Bring on the season..

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

The Bengals loss was a debacle … so I expect all the coaches were feeling that including Leslie..

It’s debatable in my mind whether Leslie “stept away “ or not…the initial story seemed a bit confused about whether he was stepping away for 1 year or walking away from the job completely…is that still up in the air?

 

Given Leslie’s ambitions to become a HC … this is obviously not the way to go about achieving that goal…but again I wish the man all the best …nothing personal there about a member of the Bears  85 defence ..  

 

My thoughts on McD calling the D this year .. this in my mind will be a positive  and an upgrade from last year even with a confused position at MLB… McD is betting on himself…he won’t have a scapegoat to hide behind anymore 

 

Bring on the season..

 

He did step away. It was his decision not to coach in 2023. I know that for a fact. What Brandon Beane said is exactly what I have heard from another source that the way it went down was when they took a break at the end of February after they had done all the reviews of last season and the self-scouting but before coaches were about to throw themselves into their personnel work pre-FA and the draft, Leslie came back and said he didn't want to coach in 2023. His intention was to step away for a year. While neither side have ruled out him returning to Buffalo in 2024 the Bills have been very careful not to commit to that. Personally I'd be shocked if he is back in Buffalo. If he coaches in the NFL again it will be as a defensive coordinator either for a team where the defense is at risk of costs an offensive HC is job and they need to make a change or as a defensive coordinator for a newly appointed offensive head coach. And I repeat what I said before, of he wants to be a DC again, he will not be lacking in interest. 

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He did step away. It was his decision not to coach in 2023. I know that for a fact. What Brandon Beane said is exactly what I have heard from another source that the way it went down was when they took a break at the end of February after they had done all the reviews of last season and the self-scouting but before coaches were about to throw themselves into their personnel work pre-FA and the draft, Leslie came back and said he didn't want to coach in 2023. His intention was to step away for a year. While neither side have ruled out him returning to Buffalo in 2024 the Bills have been very careful not to commit to that. Personally I'd be shocked if he is back in Buffalo. If he coaches in the NFL again it will be as a defensive coordinator either for a team where the defense is at risk of costs an offensive HC is job and they need to make a change or as a defensive coordinator for a newly appointed offensive head coach. And I repeat what I said before, of he wants to be a DC again, he will not be lacking in interest. 

Does Leslie want to be a HC still? 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Does Leslie want to be a HC still? 

 

I don't know for sure. I believe he does. I personally have never thought that was likely. Going back to the very first time he was linked with HC roles during his time in Buffalo. A low-key personality, who coaches the defensive side of the ball, is in his late 50s / now 60s and has been a HC previously with only one playoff appearance and winning season in 3 years.... that isn't an attractive HC hire. 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know for sure. I believe he does. I personally have never thought that was likely. Going back to the very first time he was linked with HC roles during his time in Buffalo. A low-key personality, who coaches the defensive side of the ball, is in his late 50s / now 60s and has been a HC previously with only one playoff appearance and winning season in 3 years.... that isn't an attractive HC hire. 

Fair enough … can’t argue with that…

 

[colin]

if you adjust the bills results for how much money and other resources that we've poured into it, and look at the fact that we stat pad vs awful teams while getting the bum's rush at least once each and every year, i think you can conclude pretty clearly that frazier is in fact NOT a good coach, but actually a boring uninspired turtle of a man who's driving a race car like it's a well tuned KIA and tricking people into thinking he's mario andretti.

[RunTheBall]

Leslie was a good DC for along time but his play calling got too predictable and stale after 6 years. It was the right call for him to step away whether or not it was totally his choice. Doesn’t matter, the Bills handled it with class for a guy who did a lot for this organization.

 

McD taking over play calling is a good move. Not so we can all rip him a new one if it doesn’t meet expectations, but because I think McD understands situational football and we will see that in his play calling.

 

We aren’t going to run the same defense, we can’t without Edmunds. There has to be an adjustment in responsibilities.

 

I expect more disguised coverages now that Poyer/Hyde are healthy. More disguised pressures and a modest increase in blitzing. Pressuring the QB is the best way to effect elite QB’s, especially if you can do it with 4. Taylor Rapp is going to be on the field a lot in dime looks. Floyd is going to make his presence known especially when Von comes back (that was an underrated FA acquisition by Beane).

 

So, against mid QB’s I expect a lot of the same because it works. What I see changing is against Elite QBs McD is going to inject a lot of that unpredictability we’ve all been clamoring for. 

 

[mrags]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:53 PM, HOUSE said:

Oh no, I loved the Tampa 2

I will miss those 13 seconds of excitement 

 

 

 

On 9/3/2023 at 2:59 PM, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I just don’t buy it.

 

McDermotts defense isn’t going to vary all that much IMO

 

On 9/3/2023 at 3:00 PM, RobbRiddick said:

I sure hope we don't end up revisiting his thread with comments like "looks like Fraizer wasn't the problem after all" if it ends up being even worse under McD

 

 

 

 

 

 

How aggressive were his defenses in Carolina?

 

This

 

this

 

this

 

I’ll add this. Maybe we’re wrong. Maybe McD does fix it. Maybe he is better. More aggressive. More stout against good teams. Not suspect at the worst times. But if that’s the case, why wasn’t this move done sooner. Why did we all have to live through .13 and still have to come back last year with the same lame duck DC. It’s because in the end it’s McDs defense all along. It’s what he’s wanted all along. Again, I hope we’re proved wrong. It’s almost time to find out. Can’t wait for 6 more days.