Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, newcam2012 said: The real questions thats been beaten to death is can McD lead this team to a SB and win it? Is McD a difference maker? Can another solid coach do more than McD? Is it time to move on? Etc... Can Josh Allen? Can Brandon Beane? McDermott has 5 playoff losses. Allen played poorly in 3 of them. Can Beane build an offensive line to protect Allen? We can do this all day. We need to stop acting like McDermott has nothing to do with getting the Bills to the position they’re in today. His defenses are consistently top 10. I compare him to Dungy but maybe I shouldn’t because Dungy couldn’t get the Colts defense to that level. We’re close. When you’re close you keep building. If there comes a time when the Bills move backwards then this discussion is relevant. Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Just doing a quick look but I don’t see any recent history of a team firing a head coach, keeping the franchise QB, and winning a Championship. Am I mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Just doing a quick look but I don’t see any recent history of a team firing a head coach, keeping the franchise QB, and winning a Championship. Am I mistaken? Gary Kubiak taking over for John Fox after 2014 with Peyton Manning. Broncos won the Super Bowl in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Gary Kubiak taking over for John Fox after 2014 with Peyton Manning. Broncos won the Super Bowl in 2015. Peyton Manning’s worst and final season? I guess this would be the closest example. So we’re banking on finding another Gary Kubiak? So if we fired McDermott they should hire a long time offensive coordinator that was a failure at head coach? So someone like Josh McDaniels if he’s fired? Bill O’Brien? Pat Shurmur? Lol Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 16 hours ago, HardyBoy said: Isn't Sean Payton overrated though? Like I remember reading something where he's had way more bad seasons than you'd expect from an elite coach, even if accounting that they were in cap hell for a bit. He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Peyton Manning’s worst and final season? I guess this would be the closest example. So we’re banking on finding another Gary Kubiak? So if we fired McDermott they should hire a long time offensive coordinator that was a failure at head coach? So someone like Josh McDaniels if he’s fired? Bill O’Brien? No but I answered your question. Fox was 46-18 in his four season with the Broncos going 13-3, 13-3, and 12-4 his last three regular seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 35 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: No but I answered your question. Fox was 46-18 in his four season with the Broncos going 13-3, 13-3, and 12-4 his last three regular seasons. Not exactly the same criteria. Manning was an aging QB on his 2nd team at the end of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. Why do you think McDermott is miles behind Payton as a football mind? Lol. The Bills defense was a bunch of guys as well. Why do we always diminish players and coaches for not winning a championship? It’s like you either win one or you’re trash. I don’t understand that. Obviously there’s another level but winning 1 championship doesn’t get you there in my eyes. Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. Agree with your post. I'd be so much more optimistic this season with Payton as the head coach VS McD. Payton is leap years ahead McD on the coaching tree. Can you imagine a Payton lead offense with Allen as his QB? My goodness that is borderline orgasmic. The Bills chances to go to the SB and or win it would go up substainally. Instead, we are hoping McD "sees the light" and learns from his mistakes. So far, that's not working out so well unless you are cool with great regular seasons. Damn Payton was there for the taking. Another missed opportunity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gregg said: One thing I’ve always found interesting about defensive head coaches. They rarely call the defense while many offensive head coaches call the offense. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Why do you think McDermott is miles behind Payton as a football mind? Lol. The Bills defense was a bunch of guys as well. Why do we always diminish players and coaches for not winning a championship? It’s like you either win one or you’re trash. I don’t understand that. Obviously there’s another level but winning 1 championship doesn’t get you there in my eyes. Winning one certainly does elevate everyone including coaches. It means you achieved a rare feat and you are automatically elevated to another level. It proves you can rise to another level. It's a pretty big deal. 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: He is the exact opposite IMO. He won with a great QB and a bunch of guys. Brees played with ZERO skill players that went to the Pro Bowl. Payton schemed guys open EVERYWHERE. He won a Super Bowl and was the worst missed call ever from going again. Add in the Minnesota Miracle and he could have been to 3. He is MILES ahead of McDermott as a football mind. Payton is a terrible husband and has some other demons but a great coach. I lived in New Orleans for his whole tenure and followed the Saints pretty closely (you can’t avoid it there). I don’t mean to be so dismissive here when people downplay Payton. He and Brees were the reason that those teams won so often. They won because of him not despite him. The talent was just okay everywhere else. The Bills win WITH McDermott not because of him. Not sure how much football you have watched. Payton was pretty much known to be an excellent offensive coach. One of the best in the game. Him and Breeze were pretty special. The Saints offense was dynamic and innovative. I believe an Allen and Payton combination would be similar to Mahomes and Reid. Allen and McD doesn't neatly move the needle. As for defense, the McD defense has been unable to make the needed stops come playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: Winning one certainly does elevate everyone including coaches. It means you achieved a rare feat and you are automatically elevated to another level. It proves you can rise to another level. It's a pretty big deal. It’s an achievement for sure. I still take the entire career over 1 championship when ranking all time greats. Nick Foles isn’t a great QB. Winning multiple championships is what makes you different. Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This is what people don’t seem to understand. Losing to the Chiefs and Bengals isn’t something you fire a coach for. It’s honestly embarrassing that we’re having these conversations. Bills fans need to be better. But maybe I shouldn’t be shocked because reporters use to say fans wanted coaches fired and Jim Kelly benched for losing Super Bowls. Its the way they lost not that they lost. They lost the games largely because of coaching. 13 sec No doubt. Cinci game players unprepared and out schemed. Three years ago when the Bills lost to KC there was no widespread anti McD. It was pretty clear KC was the better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: It’s an achievement for sure. I still take the entire career over 1 championship when ranking all time greats. Nick Foles isn’t a great QB. Winning multiple championships is what makes you different. Depends on the player. Eli won 2 Super Bowls and both against the evil empire, but I wouldn't call him a great QB. He was a good QB even a very good QB but definitely not an all-time great. It will be interesting to see if those 2 Super Bowls are enough to get him in the HOF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: It’s an achievement for sure. I still take the entire career over 1 championship when ranking all time greats. Nick Foles isn’t a great QB. Winning multiple championships is what makes you different. How can you talk winning multiple championships when McD and Beane haven't even sniffed a SB appearance during their Bills tenure. That seems beyond optimistic to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 We'll see how Payton does in Denver and how the Bills fare with McD calling the defense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 16 minutes ago, Gregg said: Depends on the player. Eli won 2 Super Bowls and both against the evil empire, but I wouldn't call him a great QB. He was a good QB even a very good QB but definitely not an all-time great. It will be interesting to see if those 2 Super Bowls are enough to get him in the HOF. Like I said I take the whole career. The 2 Super Bowls don’t tell the whole story, but it does make you think harder about his career. George Seifert is another one, but if you examine his career he was clearly riding the coattails of what Walsh built. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, Gregg said: Depends on the player. Eli won 2 Super Bowls and both against the evil empire, but I wouldn't call him a great QB. He was a good QB even a very good QB but definitely not an all-time great. It will be interesting to see if those 2 Super Bowls are enough to get him in the HOF. He'll make it because he was on a team that won 2 SBs and he's got the Manning name. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: How can you talk winning multiple championships when McD and Beane haven't even sniffed a SB appearance during their Bills tenure. That seems beyond optimistic to me. The conversation wasn’t about McDermott and Beane. In fact I didn’t mention them when talking about championships. I poked my head in this thread because of fans like you that have this unrealistic opinion that firing a winning coach somehow gets us closer to winning Super Bowl. It’s 100% fact that it’s going to be difficult for McDermott to win a championship in Buffalo at this point. It’s also going to be difficult for Josh Allen. After that rookie contract it gets tougher to win your first. Edited June 19, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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