ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Probably because Trump planned to withdraw the US from NATO (either severely weakening or ending the alliance), which would be a bigger victory for Putin than taking Ukraine. Since he lost the election instead because everyone was tired of his crap, Putin decided to continue trying to reconstitute the Russian Empire as consolation. Had Trump won, he probably would have waited until the US had withdrawn from NATO and then invaded. The source on that? Anti-Trump 'journalists' from the Post and NYT... via 'anonymous sources' who were 'supposedly' White House aides. That's what we call... hearsay. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: The source on that? Anti-Trump 'journalists' from the Post and NYT... via 'anonymous sources' who were 'supposedly' White House aides. That's what we call... hearsay. Didn’t realize John Bolton was anonymous and didn’t work in the White House. Also, Trump criticized NATO and his America First philosophy involved withdrawing the US from the world stage. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to expect that he would do something that he clearly wanted to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Also, Trump criticized NATO and his America First philosophy involved withdrawing the US from the world stage. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to expect that he would do something that he clearly wanted to do. You have got to be kidding me. Trump criticized our NATO allies for not "paying their fair share". I thought you liked that sort of rhetoric. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Didn’t realize John Bolton was anonymous and didn’t work in the White House. Also, Trump criticized NATO and his America First philosophy involved withdrawing the US from the world stage. It’s perfectly reasonable for someone to expect that he would do something that he clearly wanted to do. He criticized, maybe you disagree with his argument, that we were fitting most of the bill for NATO while other nations did very little and reaped the rewards of our military and $$$$ Germany and the US now pay around 16% of the operating costs. That's because Trump called out the BS. Before that, 3.3% of the GDP went to NATO (from the US). Germany was giving 1.2% (less than the agreed 2% for NATO nations). Of all 29 NATO allies at the time, the U.S. defense budget accounts for about two-thirds of that total. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You have got to be kidding me. Trump criticized our NATO allies for not "paying their fair share". I thought you liked that sort of rhetoric. And refused to commit to abiding by Article V. Come on, you cannot possibly believe that Trump didn’t want to pull out of NATO. His whole thing was about withdrawing the US from global hegemony and getting rid of multilateral deals in favor of transactional one-on-one relationships. Our allies were publicly worried he would withdraw from NATO and there’s no way Putin wasn’t aware of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Just now, ArdmoreRyno said: He criticized, maybe you disagree with his argument, that we were fitting most of the bill for NATO while other nations did very little and reaped the rewards of our military and $$$$ Germany and the US now pay around 16% of the operating costs. That's because Trump called out the BS. Before that, 3.3% of the GDP went to NATO (from the US). Germany was giving 1.2% (less than the agreed 2% for NATO nations). Of all 29 NATO allies at the time, the U.S. defense budget accounts for about two-thirds of that total. He also warned Germany about putting all of their energy eggs in Russia's pipeline basket. They, of course, laughed at him. Fools! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 13 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: RFK nails it. Wait, don't tell me, he's a right wing Putin lover right? He's 1000% right. This is a US v Russia proxy war and we could have helped prevent it... but Biden wants a war. He wants Putin gone and he doesn't care how many lives it costs. This is W. x 1000 because despite how many people died in the war vs Iraq, we get into a direct war with Russia due to NATO and Biden, we could see billions die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: And refused to commit to abiding by Article V. Come on, you cannot possibly believe that Trump didn’t want to pull out of NATO. His whole thing was about withdrawing the US from global hegemony and getting rid of multilateral deals in favor of transactional one-on-one relationships. Our allies were publicly worried he would withdraw from NATO and there’s no way Putin wasn’t aware of that. Sure! That sounds about right. I'm going to use it three times in a sentence until I know that it's true. Edited May 9, 2023 by SoCal Deek 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdmoreRyno Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 It's pretty astonishing how some people on here think we didn't play a huge part in Russia invading. Proxy war. Proxy war. Proxy war. War = $$$$$ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 27 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: The source on that? Anti-Trump 'journalists' from the Post and NYT... via 'anonymous sources' who were 'supposedly' White House aides. That's what we call... hearsay. Ever hear of General John Kelly? John Bolton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ever hear of General John Kelly? John Bolton? I have heard of Bolton. He's a big neocon war instigator and advocate most recently seen in Taiwan meeting with government officials there to stir up trouble with mainland China. Why engage in supporting one unwinnable war when you can have two or three? What I can't figure is how anyone assessing the current situation can conclude the war in Ukraine has provided any positive outcomes for our country. Our standing with allies and enemies alike has declined. Our leader is a feeble old fool fronting as President for some person(s) behind the scenes setting policy. A palace coup in progress. Every policy initiate domestic and international is a failure. Russia, China, Iran, India, and others have formed solid alliances. Both economic and military. Many countries are contemplating an exit from the dollar system because of concerns with sanctions and asset seizures if they anger Washington. Something they would have never entertained before. I can't think of a single country where our strategic relations are better. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I have heard of Bolton. He's a big neocon war instigator and advocate most recently seen in Taiwan meeting with government officials there to stir up trouble with mainland China. Why engage in supporting one unwinnable war when you can have two or three? What I can't figure is how anyone assessing the current situation can conclude the war in Ukraine has provided any positive outcomes for our country. Our standing with allies and enemies alike has declined. Our leader is a feeble old fool fronting as President for some person(s) behind the scenes setting policy. A palace coup in progress. Every policy initiate domestic and international is a failure. Russia, China, Iran, India, and others have formed solid alliances. Both economic and military. Many countries are contemplating an exit from the dollar system because of concerns with sanctions and asset seizures if they anger Washington. Something they would have never entertained before. I can't think of a single country where our strategic relations are better. Investing in democracy pays out in the long run big time. Increases the human capital of the world, the peace and good order and promotes more human rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 25 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Investing in democracy pays out in the long run big time. Increases the human capital of the world, the peace and good order and promotes more human rights. Peace through constant engagement in warfare. Yes! Thank you for that public service announcement. We now return our audience to reality. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: He also warned Germany about putting all of their energy eggs in Russia's pipeline basket. They, of course, laughed at him. Fools! 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Peace through constant engagement in warfare. Yes! Thank you for that public service announcement. We now return our audience to reality. That's their agenda. If we have constant small wars, it prevents the big world wars. The mic loves it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Peace through constant engagement in warfare. Yes! Thank you for that public service announcement. We now return our audience to reality. This republic was forged during war. Putin’s n hopes you guys let a republic fall, Yes, you and Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Irv said: He’s got some rare throat disorder. Not dementia though. Hi. It’s the sand here. Bring your head back down in here again. What a mess. 7 hours ago, ALF said: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. suffers from a voice disorder called spasmodic dysphonia, also referred to as laryngeal dystonia. It is a disorder where a person's voice muscles contract involuntary, leading to a distorted voice. Ooops, my bad. I could have sworn I've heard him talk normally. 6 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Probably because Trump planned to withdraw the US from NATO (either severely weakening or ending the alliance), which would be a bigger victory for Putin than taking Ukraine. Since he lost the election instead because everyone was tired of his crap, Putin decided to continue trying to reconstitute the Russian Empire as consolation. Had Trump won, he probably would have waited until the US had withdrawn from NATO and then invaded. What does NATO have to do with Ukraine? The answer: nothing. They weren't a member so even if we were to believe that Trump was going to disband NATO (he couldn't even if he wanted to) wouldn't have meant a damn thing. And Bolton's "Trump might have pulled the US out of NATO" is about as worthless and the paper it was printed in. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, Doc said: Ooops, my bad. I could have sworn I've heard him talk normally. What does NATO have to do with Ukraine? The answer: nothing. They weren't a member so even if we were to believe that Trump was going to disband NATO (he couldn't even if he wanted to) wouldn't have meant a damn thing. And Bolton's "Trump might have pulled the US out of NATO" is about as worthless and the paper it was printed in. Bolton is a hack. He's always been a hack. He made up lies to sell his crappy book. Dude will say anything. What a mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 44 minutes ago, Doc said: Ooops, my bad. I could have sworn I've heard him talk normally. What does NATO have to do with Ukraine? The answer: nothing. They weren't a member so even if we were to believe that Trump was going to disband NATO (he couldn't even if he wanted to) wouldn't have meant a damn thing. And Bolton's "Trump might have pulled the US out of NATO" is about as worthless and the paper it was printed in. Glad you agree that NATO had nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s clearly not why Putin invaded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: This republic was forged during war. Putin’s n hopes you guys let a republic fall, Yes, you and Putin If you're paying attention you might notice what a fine and outstanding job the Biden administration is doing to "let the republic fail" all by themselves. No help is required. And what you and the rest of the warmongers don't get is that in the current version of that historical 1776 event most of the world views us as the British. Seeing and speaking the truth and reality is not supporting some foreign adversary, its called self-awareness. Edited May 9, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Glad you agree that NATO had nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s clearly not why Putin invaded. Glad you can read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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