ChiGoose Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Doc said: What's wrong with sending them to sanctuary cities? These cities have long stated that they welcome illegal aliens with open arms. What changed? I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is Just now, Pokebball said: Curious as to what additional measures you would then support You'd have to go to the root causes of the crisis, which are many, including instability in Central America, underfunded/understaffed immigration courts, drug smuggling, etc. Much of the current crisis is being driven by refugees who are able to cross the border legally so long as they present themselves to the government and make their claim. However, the process can take a long time, which discourages compliance with the law and encourages them to find other means to enter the country. Here's a couple things that I think could put a good dent in the problem: Partner with some of the more stable Central American countries to coordinate processing of asylum claims and more orderly distribution of refugees throughout the region Increase funding and staffing for immigration courts and agencies to more quickly process claims If people could immigrate legally but would have to wait many years, they're more likely to come in illegally Immigration courts are currently severely under-resourced, causing delays to adjudication and creating incentives to enter illegally Beef up case management and other alternatives to detention It's expensive and often counter productive to house people while waiting for processing. This is especially true due to the delays caused by the overburdened immigration court system Having CBP officers handing out diapers and feeding immigrants isn't a good use of their time or talents Strong case management programs can help people navigate the immigration process and find safe and stable living conditions while their case is pending without requiring the US to house them A pilot ICE program called Family Case Management Program had an over 99% compliance rate with ICE check-ins and court appearances This allows people to be productive members of society while staying compliant with immigration laws Modify ports of entry to address increased immigration Ports of entry currently only allow a limited number of people to present claims per day. Legally, anyone should be able to present themselves at a port of entry to make a claim of asylum Currently, refugees have the choice of waiting for weeks or months to present their claim or finding another way into the country Ports of entry should be properly staffed to handle asylum claims in a timely manner, incentivizing people to enter the country legally Stabilizing the region Any aid to unstable Central American countries should be conditioned on progress on reforms and moving towards stability. Drugs I know it's controversial, but legalizing marijuana and looking at harm reduction policies for other harder drugs would reduce the demand for cartel drugs. Security Border security should be focused on how people actually come in to the country and utilize technology instead of a big dumb and expensive wall across the border Renovating and staffing the ports of entry to actually handle expected volumes of asylum claims would not only allow them to process people as they arrived, but it would incentivize future refugees to present themselves at ports and comply with the law instead of finding alternative pathways into the US More funding for sensors, drones, and other technologies that provide a low-cost, but more effective approach to identifying smugglers, drugs, and other contraband. Most contraband comes through ports of entry, so such technology, when paired with increases in staffing, should help catch more smuggling attempts Drones and cameras can provide real-time notice of people crossing the border outside of ports of entry Such solutions, however, would require strong conditions against their use to surveil US citizens living in the border zone I'd also like to see some comprehensive immigration reform that expands eligibility, but the above list is focused on how to reduce the crisis under existing law without changing who is able to enter legally and who is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 30 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is Apparently neither do they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 32 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is You'd have to go to the root causes of the crisis, which are many, including instability in Central America, underfunded/understaffed immigration courts, drug smuggling, etc. Much of the current crisis is being driven by refugees who are able to cross the border legally so long as they present themselves to the government and make their claim. However, the process can take a long time, which discourages compliance with the law and encourages them to find other means to enter the country. Here's a couple things that I think could put a good dent in the problem: Partner with some of the more stable Central American countries to coordinate processing of asylum claims and more orderly distribution of refugees throughout the region Increase funding and staffing for immigration courts and agencies to more quickly process claims If people could immigrate legally but would have to wait many years, they're more likely to come in illegally Immigration courts are currently severely under-resourced, causing delays to adjudication and creating incentives to enter illegally Beef up case management and other alternatives to detention It's expensive and often counter productive to house people while waiting for processing. This is especially true due to the delays caused by the overburdened immigration court system Having CBP officers handing out diapers and feeding immigrants isn't a good use of their time or talents Strong case management programs can help people navigate the immigration process and find safe and stable living conditions while their case is pending without requiring the US to house them A pilot ICE program called Family Case Management Program had an over 99% compliance rate with ICE check-ins and court appearances This allows people to be productive members of society while staying compliant with immigration laws Modify ports of entry to address increased immigration Ports of entry currently only allow a limited number of people to present claims per day. Legally, anyone should be able to present themselves at a port of entry to make a claim of asylum Currently, refugees have the choice of waiting for weeks or months to present their claim or finding another way into the country Ports of entry should be properly staffed to handle asylum claims in a timely manner, incentivizing people to enter the country legally Stabilizing the region Any aid to unstable Central American countries should be conditioned on progress on reforms and moving towards stability. Drugs I know it's controversial, but legalizing marijuana and looking at harm reduction policies for other harder drugs would reduce the demand for cartel drugs. Security Border security should be focused on how people actually come in to the country and utilize technology instead of a big dumb and expensive wall across the border Renovating and staffing the ports of entry to actually handle expected volumes of asylum claims would not only allow them to process people as they arrived, but it would incentivize future refugees to present themselves at ports and comply with the law instead of finding alternative pathways into the US More funding for sensors, drones, and other technologies that provide a low-cost, but more effective approach to identifying smugglers, drugs, and other contraband. Most contraband comes through ports of entry, so such technology, when paired with increases in staffing, should help catch more smuggling attempts Drones and cameras can provide real-time notice of people crossing the border outside of ports of entry Such solutions, however, would require strong conditions against their use to surveil US citizens living in the border zone I'd also like to see some comprehensive immigration reform that expands eligibility, but the above list is focused on how to reduce the crisis under existing law without changing who is able to enter legally and who is not. Just to the first comment- what is a sanctuary city if not a place where people unwelcome elsewhere are welcomed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Getting bogged down with The King handwaving, bloviating, parsing and projecting. How novel and refreshing! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said: Just to the first comment- what is a sanctuary city if not a place where people unwelcome elsewhere are welcomed? A sanctuary city is simply a city that doesn't report suspected illegal immigrants to immigration enforcement. That's really it. Some cities do more with social services and such, some don't; but the main thing is that they don't hold people for immigration enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, ChiGoose said: A sanctuary city is simply a city that doesn't report suspected illegal immigrants to immigration enforcement. That's really it. Some cities do more with social services and such, some don't; but the main thing is that they don't hold people for immigration enforcement. So a city that doesn't report illegals to ICE. Yeah, sounds like a terrible place to send them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Doc said: So a city that doesn't report illegals to ICE. Yeah, sounds like a terrible place to send them... There's a difference between coordinating with other cities to help deal with the surge in people and trafficking people across the country to just dump them off in other cities to make a political point. Frankly, whatever people believe about immigration and immigration laws, anyone who supports human trafficking for political points is a disgusting person. Edited October 13, 2023 by ChiGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Do it, but NIMBY!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 3 hours ago, ChiGoose said: I'm not sure you understand what a sanctuary city actually is You'd have to go to the root causes of the crisis, which are many, including instability in Central America, underfunded/understaffed immigration courts, drug smuggling, etc. Much of the current crisis is being driven by refugees who are able to cross the border legally so long as they present themselves to the government and make their claim. However, the process can take a long time, which discourages compliance with the law and encourages them to find other means to enter the country. Here's a couple things that I think could put a good dent in the problem: Partner with some of the more stable Central American countries to coordinate processing of asylum claims and more orderly distribution of refugees throughout the region Increase funding and staffing for immigration courts and agencies to more quickly process claims If people could immigrate legally but would have to wait many years, they're more likely to come in illegally Immigration courts are currently severely under-resourced, causing delays to adjudication and creating incentives to enter illegally Beef up case management and other alternatives to detention It's expensive and often counter productive to house people while waiting for processing. This is especially true due to the delays caused by the overburdened immigration court system Having CBP officers handing out diapers and feeding immigrants isn't a good use of their time or talents Strong case management programs can help people navigate the immigration process and find safe and stable living conditions while their case is pending without requiring the US to house them A pilot ICE program called Family Case Management Program had an over 99% compliance rate with ICE check-ins and court appearances This allows people to be productive members of society while staying compliant with immigration laws Modify ports of entry to address increased immigration Ports of entry currently only allow a limited number of people to present claims per day. Legally, anyone should be able to present themselves at a port of entry to make a claim of asylum Currently, refugees have the choice of waiting for weeks or months to present their claim or finding another way into the country Ports of entry should be properly staffed to handle asylum claims in a timely manner, incentivizing people to enter the country legally Stabilizing the region Any aid to unstable Central American countries should be conditioned on progress on reforms and moving towards stability. Drugs I know it's controversial, but legalizing marijuana and looking at harm reduction policies for other harder drugs would reduce the demand for cartel drugs. Security Border security should be focused on how people actually come in to the country and utilize technology instead of a big dumb and expensive wall across the border Renovating and staffing the ports of entry to actually handle expected volumes of asylum claims would not only allow them to process people as they arrived, but it would incentivize future refugees to present themselves at ports and comply with the law instead of finding alternative pathways into the US More funding for sensors, drones, and other technologies that provide a low-cost, but more effective approach to identifying smugglers, drugs, and other contraband. Most contraband comes through ports of entry, so such technology, when paired with increases in staffing, should help catch more smuggling attempts Drones and cameras can provide real-time notice of people crossing the border outside of ports of entry Such solutions, however, would require strong conditions against their use to surveil US citizens living in the border zone I'd also like to see some comprehensive immigration reform that expands eligibility, but the above list is focused on how to reduce the crisis under existing law without changing who is able to enter legally and who is not. Then will people be welcome in Chicago? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Then will people be welcome in Chicago? Sure. The city is working on how to provide them with safe shelter and necessities. Instead of trafficking people like Florida and Texas prefer to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Sure . The city is working on how to provide them with safe shelter and necessities. Instead of trafficking people like Florida and Texas prefer to do. You say that as if it's some noble feat--it's the responsibility of the city to do just that. In NY, people who have travelled to NYC are moved upstate, and it's the responsibility of the cities and counties to care for those people. I'm not sure how else you solve the current crisis than by recognizing that the only logical solution to the hear and now is all parties sharing in the burden. The biggest issue I can see if that people in leadership never planned for sharing in the process, and quickly looked to jettison people once they ended up in their village. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Sure. The city is working on how to provide them with safe shelter and necessities. Instead of trafficking people like Florida and Texas prefer to do. the trafficking troupe is such a narrative compliant joke. states getting wholly ***** by blue border policy are saying you want this ***** here- you deal with it. We’re overwhelmed already. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You say that as if it's some noble feat--it's the responsibility of the city to do just that. In NY, people who have travelled to NYC are moved upstate, and it's the responsibility of the cities and counties to care for those people. I'm not sure how else you solve the current crisis than by recognizing that the only logical solution to the hear and now is all parties sharing in the burden. The biggest issue I can see if that people in leadership never planned for sharing in the process, and quickly looked to jettison people once they ended up in their village. So you agree that Texas and Florida should be arranging for care of the refugees who arrive there instead of busing them to other places with little to no notice? The biggest issue that I can see is that people want to traffic refugees for political points and astoundingly some people think this is a good thing. 13 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: the trafficking troupe is such a narrative compliant joke. states getting wholly ***** by blue border policy are saying you want this ***** here- you deal with it. We’re overwhelmed already. Last I checked, cities don’t set border policy. Neither do states. It would be fine for a red state governor to call blue state governors and try to arrange for them to help with the volumes of refugees. If the blue states refused, then that’s a pretty powerful message for the red state governor to use in the next election. It is unquestionably gross and disgusting to bus families and children across the county to place with little to no warning to be ready to care for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 hours ago, ChiGoose said: So you agree that Texas and Florida should be arranging for care of the refugees who arrive there instead of busing them to other places with little to no notice? The biggest issue that I can see is that people want to traffic refugees for political points and astoundingly some people think this is a good thing. Last I checked, cities don’t set border policy. Neither do states. It would be fine for a red state governor to call blue state governors and try to arrange for them to help with the volumes of refugees. If the blue states refused, then that’s a pretty powerful message for the red state governor to use in the next election. It is unquestionably gross and disgusting to bus families and children across the county to place with little to no warning to be ready to care for them. You’re talking about states, cities, rules and borders. I’m talking about people and shared responsibility. What I’ve seen is that people are often all about doing what’s right until the responsibility to help falls to them to contribute. Has there been a time, ever, where people that cross the border are required to set up stakes in this side of the border, or offered travel packages to the place of their choosing? Have families not been held in facilities against their will, moved by bus or plane to places unknown to them….or do they get to pick and choose where the federal government takes them? Is that trafficking in your world? No, the problem is that some people are not interested in sharing the burden. That’s heartless imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 5 hours ago, ChiGoose said: There's a difference between coordinating with other cities to help deal with the surge in people and trafficking people across the country to just dump them off in other cities to make a political point. Frankly, whatever people believe about immigration and immigration laws, anyone who supports human trafficking for political points is a disgusting person. You obviously have no idea what the term "human trafficking" means. But I'm sure it was a nice Dem talking point they told you to use, amirite? Anyway, sanctuary cities are where they belong because a) they're big cities with more resources than border towns and b) they protect them from being deported. You're just upset that these so-called sanctuary cities are exposing the incompetence if not outright dereliction of duty by Joke's admin in allowing tens of thousands of illegals into the country without vetting, almost daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You’re talking about states, cities, rules and borders. I’m talking about people and shared responsibility. What I’ve seen is that people are often all about doing what’s right until the responsibility to help falls to them to contribute. Has there been a time, ever, where people that cross the border are required to set up stakes in this side of the border, or offered travel packages to the place of their choosing? Have families not been held in facilities against their will, moved by bus or plane to places unknown to them….or do they get to pick and choose where the federal government takes them? Is that trafficking in your world? No, the problem is that some people are not interested in sharing the burden. That’s heartless imo. I’m talking about reality. Our immigration system is broken and some people have decided to leverage that for political gain by harming people. Sadly, it seems that this is actually popular with a lot of voters. Cruelty is the point, I guess. 8 minutes ago, Doc said: You obviously have no idea what the term "human trafficking" means. But I'm sure it was a nice Dem talking point they told you to use, amirite? Anyway, sanctuary cities are where they belong because a) they're big cities with more resources than border towns and b) they protect them from being deported. You're just upset that these so-called sanctuary cities are exposing the incompetence if not outright dereliction of duty by Joke's admin in allowing tens of thousands of illegals into the country without vetting, almost daily. I don’t understand what your fascination is with being incredibly wrong all of the time. You seem to be completely and fundamentally incapable of understanding anything behind the fiction you’ve wrapped yourself in. I’m not sure if you just don’t understand how to read or if you’ve so encased yourself in your fantasyland that you cannot accept or even recognize reality. Everything seems to just be projection for you. It’s really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 3 hours ago, ChiGoose said: So you agree that Texas and Florida should be arranging for care of the refugees who arrive there instead of busing them to other places with little to no notice? The biggest issue that I can see is that people want to traffic refugees for political points and astoundingly some people think this is a good thing. Last I checked, cities don’t set border policy. Neither do states. It would be fine for a red state governor to call blue state governors and try to arrange for them to help with the volumes of refugees. If the blue states refused, then that’s a pretty powerful message for the red state governor to use in the next election. It is unquestionably gross and disgusting to bus families and children across the county to place with little to no warning to be ready to care for them. What happens when they show up at the border… I personally think all you open border hero’s should house a migrant family each or stfu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, Doc said: You obviously have no idea what the term "human trafficking" means. But I'm sure it was a nice Dem talking point they told you to use, amirite? Anyway, sanctuary cities are where they belong because a) they're big cities with more resources than border towns and b) they protect them from being deported. You're just upset that these so-called sanctuary cities are exposing the incompetence if not outright dereliction of duty by Joke's admin in allowing tens of thousands of illegals into the country without vetting, almost daily. Democratic state and city officials could petition the federal government to declare a state of emergency and shut down the border. Problem solved. But few have the wherewithal to buck the party which demands complete obedience and compliance to national party decisions. Truth is their concern for and defense of democracy doesn't get past the front door when it comes to the party and that dogma only applies when criticizing the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: What happens when they show up at the border… I personally think all you open border hero’s should house a migrant family each or stfu I’ve already stated it earlier in this thread, but I’m opposed to an open border. I guess just assuming what other people believe is super convenient for the right because it seems to be all you guys ever do. I also already outlined what I think would help the situation without major changes to immigration law. I personally think that anyone who is ok with the human trafficking currently being done by Texas should be ridiculed, mocked, and shunned from decent society for the rest of their lives. They should never be able to be in public without being shamed. But that’s just me, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I don’t understand what your fascination is with being incredibly wrong all of the time. You seem to be completely and fundamentally incapable of understanding anything behind the fiction you’ve wrapped yourself in. I’m not sure if you just don’t understand how to read or if you’ve so encased yourself in your fantasyland that you cannot accept or even recognize reality. Everything seems to just be projection for you. It’s really sad. Don't make me laugh. You're a complete automaton for your Dem handlers. You think like a child and that's about the nicest way I can put it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts