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LA Chargers @ KC Chiefs - TNF Game Thread


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8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Your second point was absolutely devastating.  LA had some momentum and were driving the field and looking to get a TD, and just like that, no TD but KC gets one instead.

 

Devastating play!  Biggest of the game.

 

No argument there.  I don't know what to make of that play, except that if your team leaves you on the field you damned well better summon up everything you got to not allow your team to be victimized like that.

 

That was just bad all around.  Bad coaching, bad awareness by Herbert, half-assedness by Everett

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11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I understand your point that the "feeling" during the game was that the Bills were dominating.

My point is that in reality, the Rams were "in the game" until the 4Q when we (finally) went up by 2 scores.

 

You could say it took a low-probablilty deep completion to Gabe Davis and a rare pick on a deep target of Cooper Kupp  or it could have been a tie game in the 4th.

 

I'm not trying to "diss" the Bills here, my point is that at times, the Bills crapped the bed in the game vs. the Rams, and at times, Mahomes came through Big Time for his team last night.  So I don't think it makes any more sense to dump on Mahomes for that game, than it would to deny that Allen had his struggles and the Bills game vs the Rams ultimately hinged on a few big plays.

 

Mahomes had 68% completions for 235 yds and 2 TDs, including a beautiful 41 yd TD pass to bring the Chiefs back within 3 points.  It's not like he sucked.

 

 


Allen had the only questionable pass he threw all game intercepted.   And then he also had a perfectly fine throw picked off when McKenzie spazzed.  
 

If not for the McKenzie mistake, we put that game away early. 
 

Mahomes was fine.  I didn’t think he was great.  He got rattled by the pass rush, just like the Cinci game, until the Chargers got tired and apparently have no depth on the DL.   Every questionable throw he made, he was bailed out on…

 

Threw a deep pick and was bailed out by a bogus PI. 
 

Threw another pick.. bailed out by a penalty.  

Threw a pick in the end zone, dropped. 
 

Threw yet another pick and was bailed out by Samuel putting on a juggling act and then inexplicably being overturned on replay. 
 

He also made plays … yes, if you continue to bail out Mahomes and give him opportunities, he will take advantage. 
 

 

Edited by SCBills
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1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

No argument there.  I don't know what to make of that play, except that if your team leaves you on the field you damned well better summon up everything you got to not allow your team to be victimized like that.

 

That was just bad all around.  Bad coaching, bad awareness by Herbert, half-assedness by Everett

The frustrating part (if you're a Chargers fan) is that the only LA player who had a real shot at the ball carrier after the INT was Herbert himself...and he was well positioned to make the stop.  

 

But then close to the point of contact the runner made a quick move and it left Herbert grasping at air.  Needless to say, tackling is not what he is paid to do, but he could have shut that play down at about the 20 yard line I think, 80 yards short of the TD.  He's a much bigger guy than the DB and he could easily have brought him down, but he whiffed.


And from there, no one was going to catch that guy.

 

To be honest, I thought it was a poorly thrown ball.  He put it on the wrong side of the receiver, to the inside, when he should have thrown to the outside.  The throw also got there late, which is what allowed the DB to jump it.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

 

I am guessing you are younger than me if you think the Chargers only started blowing games when Phillip Rivers came on board.

 

 

To be fair, Frazier always had to worry about Kelce + Hill...if DC's don't have to focus as much on the WR's it makes it easier to key on Kelce and take him away (to the extent you can actually take Kelce away at least).

Yeah, even in the Dan Fouts era (who I always really liked and thought was underrated), the Chargers found ways to lose and were never an ultra elite team. 

 

I do remember that playoff game out in SD, though.  What was that? 1980?  We lost that one and it ripped my soul out, probably for the first time.  Age: 9.

 

 

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Good teams win ugly games sometimes.

 

....to put that in perspective....  The Jags beat the Bills last year.  It happens.

 

But perhaps a better way to put it...  When is the last time ANYONE ever said "the Chargers won that game and they had no business winning it"  ...you never hear that about them...it's often the other way around though.   

 

And...I'll reiterate this one more time....  when the interception happened, it was 17-17 in the fourth quarter.  There were about 10 minutes left.  The Chargers had to punt.  The Chiefs got the ball back and punted...the Chargers had the ball back again with just under 6 minutes left, trailing 24-17.  They ended up punting again.

 

The interception return was the key play obviously, but the Chargers had TWO chances to drive and tie, and possibly win the game after that happend.  

 

The Chargers had 400 or so total yards.  KC had 320 or so total yards.  That stat was Even when the Chargers had their final drive...but by then KC was up 10 and KC was letting them have yards in exchange for running clock.  The Chargers were only 5-16 on third down, but 4-4 on 4th Down.... The Chargers only rushed for 75 yards on 25 carries.  That's 3.3 YPC.  

 

I'm not telling you the Chiefs are some juggarnaut, or that they don't get enough credit, but I am telling you the Chargers A) couldn't get it done in the 4th quarter and B) The Chiefs defense was a part of why they couldn't get it done.  C) The Chargers are held back by crappy coaching.  That's a strong roster.

 

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17 minutes ago, SCBills said:


Allen had the only questionable pick he threw all game intercepted.   And then he also had a perfectly fine throw picked off when McKenzie spazzed.  
 

If not for the McKenzie mistake, we put that game away early. 
 

Mahomes was fine.  I didn’t think he was great.  He got rattled by the pass rush, just like the Cinci game, until the Chargers got tired and apparently have no depth on the DL.   Every questionable throw he made, he was bailed out on…

 

Threw a deep pick and was bailed out by a bogus PI. 
 

Threw another pick.. bailed out by a penalty.  
 

Threw yet another pick and was bailed out by Samuel putting on a juggling act and then inexplicably being overturned on replay. 
 

He also made plays … yes, if you continue to bail out Mahomes and give him opportunities, he will take advantage. 

 

That's fair.  Mahomes wasn't bad.  He wasn't great.  He had some "ooooohs" and "aaaaaahs" plays. 

 

15 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The frustrating part (if you're a Chargers fan) is that the only LA player who had a real shot at the ball carrier after the INT was Herbert himself...and he was well positioned to make the stop.  

 

But then close to the point of contact the runner made a quick move and it left Herbert grasping at air.  Needless to say, tackling is not what he is paid to do, but he could have shut that play down at about the 20 yard line I think, 80 yards short of the TD.  He's a much bigger guy than the DB and he could easily have brought him down, but he whiffed.

 

TBH, I don't think Herbert's heart was in making that tackle.  vs. Stafford, who was going to make that tackle if it tore his arm off.

 

15 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

To be honest, I thought it was a poorly thrown ball.  He put it on the wrong side of the receiver, to the inside, when he should have thrown to the outside.  The throw also got there late, which is what allowed the DB to jump it.

 

Didn't one of the announcers (or maybe post game) say they thought the play called for the receiver to break to the inside?  I'm not sure it was a poorly thrown ball; the receiver was not where Herbert expected him to be, and I don't think we can say whether that was on Herbert, or on the receiver.

 

The thing that is clear is that the receiver was gassed or maybe dinged from a previous play and wanted to come out.

Edited by Beck Water
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11 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

Good teams win ugly games sometimes.

 

....to put that in perspective....  The Jags beat the Bills last year.  It happens.

 

But perhaps a better way to put it...  When is the last time ANYONE ever said "the Chargers won that game and they had no business winning it"  ...you never hear that about them...it's often the other way around though.   

 

And...I'll reiterate this one more time....  when the interception happened, it was 17-17 in the fourth quarter.  There were about 10 minutes left.  The Chargers had to punt.  The Chiefs got the ball back and punted...the Chargers had the ball back again with just under 6 minutes left, trailing 24-17.  They ended up punting again.

 

The interception return was the key play obviously, but the Chargers had TWO chances to drive and tie, and possibly win the game after that happend.  

 

The Chargers had 400 or so total yards.  KC had 320 or so total yards.  That stat was Even when the Chargers had their final drive...but by then KC was up 10 and KC was letting them have yards in exchange for running clock.  The Chargers were only 5-16 on third down, but 4-4 on 4th Down.... The Chargers only rushed for 75 yards on 25 carries.  That's 3.3 YPC.  

 

I'm not telling you the Chiefs are some juggarnaut, or that they don't get enough credit, but I am telling you the Chargers A) couldn't get it done in the 4th quarter and B) The Chiefs defense was a part of why they couldn't get it done.  C) The Chargers are held back by crappy coaching.  That's a strong roster.

 

 

In the first half, I found myself saying "that's a Well Coached team" about the Chargers.  Would you disagree? 

 

image.thumb.png.204884464de2cb6c783390f44eb0adb7.png

 

 

 

Edited by Beck Water
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This game was greatly affected by 2 bad calls by the officials. The first call was a PI call on the Chargers defense in the first half on a play where they got an interception. What looked like PI was actually an arm hook initiated by the KC receiver. KC then go on to score a TD and get back in the game. The 2nd was even huger on another INT that the refs overturned on review. Looking at it several times the Chargers defender has the ball in his grasp as part of the ball hits the ground. Its not a trap and definitely an INT. What's even more ridiculous is the call on the field was an INT and there wasnt definitive evidence to overturn yet they did anyway.  Nobody but KC gets calls like that.  In the end though the Chargers literally gift wrapped this game for KC. The Pick 6 was a terrible decision by Hebert and his pathetic attempt to tackle didnt even slow down the KC player. Just embarrassing but how many of you thought, "Ive seen this movie before" with Jeff Tuel of the Bills doing it against KC in almost the identical position in 2013.

Edited by Livinginthepast
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Chargers reminded me of the Bills KC game a couple years back where we blinked when it came time for the 4th down go for it plays. Gotta have the gas on and the balls to put your foot on the throat when you need to. Impose your will on the other team. The Chargers defense held Mahomes to 3 punts and 1 td before that second punt. Gotta have faith in both your offense to convert and your defense to hold them. 

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Just now, Beck Water said:

 

In the first half, I found myself saying "that's a Well Coached team" about the Chargers.  Would you disagree? 

 

 

I do.  That doesn't mean the Chargers aren't capable of excellent football.  they are, and they looked excellent, especially in the first quarter.  

 

I would say, it's not hard to find articles etc out there that document how they are very often less than optimal in their decision making and game planning, play calling etc.  But....just as you observe some of what they do....their coaches too often make the wrong choice or opt for a suboptimal call.  

 

Herbert is now 16-18 as a starter.  I think he's better than that record indicates and I think part of why it isn't better is coaching.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why all this great hype on Mahomes from last night's game? He should've had 3 INTs and lost that game. 

Ya he was not impressive to me. And LA really lost that game instead of KC winning imo.

Messed up on that 95+ yard pick 6 , which was obviously a game changer. 

I was dialed in on TE Everett for fantasy purposes.  

He just had a great 25 yard reception and Was calling to the sideline for a breather. Instead LA goes hurry up, Herbert goes right back to him and you can see Everett had no energy and boom- pick 6

 

 

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I havent dug through this whole thread, but are folks talking about those HUGE hits both Mahomes and Herbert were taking while IN THE POCKET?

 

With all these Bills fans concerned about Josh running, last night was another great example of QBs being most vulnerable while in the pocket, not while running.

 

We beat the crap out of Stafford - in the pocket.

Mahomes took a couple of big hits (one right under his chin, one into his legs) last night - in the pocket.

Herbert got crushed repeatedly, and injured - in the pocket.

 

In the pocket, QBs are sitting ducks and are completely vulnerable.

Out running, Josh does the hitting.

 

Put your concerns to bed. LET THE BEAST LOOSE!

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6 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

This game was greatly affected by 2 bad calls by the officials. The first call was a PI call on the Chargers defense in the first half on a play where they got an interception. What looked like PI was actually an arm hook initiated by the KC receiver. KC then go on to score a TD and get back in the game. The 2nd was even huger on another INT that the refs overturned on review. Looking at it several times the Chargers defender has the ball in his grasp as part of the ball hits the ground. Its not a trap and definitely an INT. What's even more ridiculous is the call on the field was an INT and there wasnt definitive evidence to overturn yet they did anyway.  Nobody but KC gets calls like that.  In the end though the Chargers literally gift wrapped this game for KC. The Pick 6 was a terrible decision by Hebert and his pathetic attempt to tackle didnt even slow down the KC player. Just embarrassing but how many of you thought, "Ive seen this movie before" with Jeff Tuel of the Bills doing it against KC in almost the identical position in 2013.

 

I would agree that the INT overturned by replay, was the wrong call.  That was an INT.

 

the PI....that penalty is tough.  Sometimes that one is flagged, sometimes it's not.  Did the reciever initiate it?  Possibly....but the point is...part of the NFL unfortunately, is that you can expect some bad calls.  Sometimes they go your way, and sometimes they don't.  And....sometimes, you just need to be lucky and catch a break to win a game.  

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2 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I do.  That doesn't mean the Chargers aren't capable of excellent football.  they are, and they looked excellent, especially in the first quarter.  

 

I would say, it's not hard to find articles etc out there that document how they are very often less than optimal in their decision making and game planning, play calling etc.  But....just as you observe some of what they do....their coaches too often make the wrong choice or opt for a suboptimal call.  

 

Herbert is now 16-18 as a starter.  I think he's better than that record indicates and I think part of why it isn't better is coaching. 

 

It's the start of Staley's second year.  Are there really articles torpedoing him for game planning and decision making in his rookie HC season?

 

About KC:  Frankly, until that TD pass to Justin Watson (who?) in the 3rd, I thought Mahomes looked really out-of-sorts in the passing game.  He was being pressured, but he didn't seem to have or to want to take (couldn't tell from the broadcast) checkdowns and quick throws.   When he did throw, his receivers seemed to have trouble catching it.  I was completely taken aback to look at the stat sheet and see that Smith-Schuster played 75% of the snaps and had 3 receptions on 3 targets (for 10 yards!) or that Valdez-Scantling played 79%.  2 receptions on 7 targets, he and Mahomes need to "get in the lab".

 

This after the announcers were all over how the new receivers didn't matter because Mahomes had them all at his Fort Worth mansion for 2 weeks last spring.

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This was the first time I’ve really watched Herbert.  I’ll check in on games here and there, but being on the West Coast, and not a premier team, I haven’t really seen a ton of him.  
 

Just based off that one game… He’s a poor man’s Josh Allen, if JA was hesitant/incapable of running.   Strong arm, can make all the throws.  Big prototype looking QB.  Stands in and makes throws in the face of pressure.  His decision making, reading of defense seems to be a level below the elites and he throws check downs and jump balls FREQUENTLY  (although that may also be a function of the offense w their WR’s). 
 

He’s a top tier QB, but there is clear separation between Allen/Mahomes and Herbert/Burrow. 

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2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I havent dug through this whole thread, but are folks talking about those HUGE hits both Mahomes and Herbert were taking while IN THE POCKET?

 

With all these Bills fans concerned about Josh running, last night was another great example of QBs being most vulnerable while in the pocket, not while running.

 

We beat the crap out of Stafford - in the pocket.

Mahomes took a couple of big hits (one right under his chin, one into his legs) last night - in the pocket.

Herbert got crushed repeatedly, and injured - in the pocket.

 

In the pocket, QBs are sitting ducks and are completely vulnerable.

Out running, Josh does the hitting.

 

Put your concerns to bed. LET THE BEAST LOOSE!

 

I haven't seen it in this thread, but it's a fair point and I actually found myself thinking that about Herbert last night - "Dang, he'd be better off to run!"

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2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

It's too early to say you are wrong, but KC has a 1 game lead already with a division win in hand.  For the Chargers to win the division winning only 10, that would mean KC is going to have a disaster in the last 15 games.  KC would need to go 8-7 or worse in the remaining games, with one of those being a loss the the Chargers AND also finishing with a worse division record or other tiebreaker if they finish tied at 10.  That doesn't seem likely.

 

 

1.  one of the worst attributes of Andy Ried is he just doesn't like committing to the run, even when it's working...and you can couple that with wanting to be cute on short yardage plays where he calls very ill advised, low pct run plays when he either should just pass, or commit to a conventional straight line run.  Either way...last nights game was NOT one of Andy's better performances as a play caller.  

 

2.  Kansas City has a good line, but the OT are both beatable with a good speed rush.  Von Miller will be a problem.

 

3.  The Chargers roster is stacked.  They suffer from horrible, sub optimal play calling.  Joe Lombardi doesn't know how to coordinate an offense without Sean Payton telling him what to do with Drew Brees at QB.  Lombardi fails to utilize Herbert to his full potential.  The Chargers are held back by bad coaching.

 

4.  All 17 games aren't always going to be masterpieces.  KC got steamrolled by the Titans last year,  The Bills lost to the Jags.  Both teams played at a high level (offensively at least) in a huge playoff game.  Sometimes you need some breaks, and sometimes you need a defesnsive or special teams score to be the difference.

 

5.  I've seen some saying that if the Chargers had scored the TD instead of KC getting the 99 yard pic 6, that would have been the ball game.  .....It would of course been WAY better for the Chargers, but that happened when the game was tied at 17.  KC would have been down 7, with the ball with like 8 minutes left in the game or whatever.  You can't say that was game over.  The Chargers as it were, got the ball back down 24-17 and didn't do anything with it.

 

 

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

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Just now, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

This is coaching.  Joe Lombardi is in over his head as OC there.  He clearly only is capable of making a gameplan, at the direction of Sean Peyton, for old Drew Brees.  They throw a bunch of short dink, dunk passes.  WASTING Justin Herberts big arm and mobility. 

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