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Training Camp Practice 7/26


YoloinOhio
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8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

They're only paying him $2.9 million this year. As a point of reference they paid Tyler Kroft $4.9 million in 2019 and $5.4 million in 2020. I'm sure the Bills were hoping Howard would find some of that elite potential. But they didn't give him that modest contract with the idea that he was certain to be a dynamic pass catcher. They knew at worst he would be an upgrade at TE2. So far it looks like that's all they're getting, and that alone makes his contract worth it.

 

I think the real problem here is that some fans saw OJ Howard's name and got overly excited. Forget the name and the draft pedigree, look at the dollar amount. That tells you what Beane thought he was getting. It was a risk-free signing with a definitive floor and limitless upside. The $2.9 million pays for the floor. If we get more, great.

I mean it’s not really about what they are paying him… it’s about stacking playmakers and match up winners. They brought him in to be a decent pass catching TE to pair with Knox considering this offense(and team for that matter) thrives and win games due to the passing game. 

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12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think when they signed Howard they were looking for that dynamic pass catcher he flashed earlier on in his career…. From several reports he looks sluggish and lackluster as a receiver…. I’m sure he’s already an upgrade over Sweeney, but as you mentioned, that’s not saying much of anything. 

 

 

Yeah @HappyDays is wrong.    They didn't ink OJ Howard "primarily to block".   A very cap strapped,  pass-first team doesn't pay a blocking TE $3M per.    They thought they were getting a bargain prove-it deal on a guy with a lot of receiving upside who can block a little.   But as the reports from Tampa indicated,  he seems to have lost a lot of speed and quickness.   I don't have a problem with taking some cheap flyers on injured guys like Howard and Crowder but that should be in addition to more likely-to-succeed kinda' moves.   Like when they threw Shaq Lawson a bone after they already had 8 high picks or highly paid DL under contract.   

 

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2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

So all the discussion about Davis risking injury by getting bigger was for nought? 

 

 

 

He was limited by a foot injury for the first 3 months of last season.........after adding muscle/weight to his frame following his rookie season.

 

He chose to add more weight.

 

We are 3 days into an NFL season with about 200 days left in it.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

A very cap strapped,  pass-first team doesn't pay a blocking TE $3M per.

 

We paid Lee Smith $3.5 million in 2019. $3.25 million in 2020. So yeah, you're just wrong about this. Howard was paid to be a TE2. In this offense that means run block and occasionally catch the ball. Obviously they were hoping he would hit some of his upside but that's not what his contract mandates. He's being paid the going rate for a decent TE2.

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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

He was limited by a foot injury for the first 3 months of last season.........after adding muscle/weight to his frame following his rookie season.

 

He chose to add more weight.

 

We are 3 days into an NFL season with about 200 days left in it.

 

 

But he didn't really add any significant weight according to that post, correct? For an athlete that size it's fairly insignificant. It's more important how his workout regimen has been and if he has learned techniques to avoid stressing the muscles to the point of injury. Season is long for every player so besides the regular wear and tear a few pounds of weight isn't worth worrying about imo. 

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43 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We paid Lee Smith $3.5 million in 2019. $3.25 million in 2020. So yeah, you're just wrong about this. Howard was paid to be a TE2. In this offense that means run block and occasionally catch the ball. Obviously they were hoping he would hit some of his upside but that's not what his contract mandates. He's being paid the going rate for a decent TE2.

 

 

They weren't cap strapped in 2019.

 

Obviously.   

 

Beane was spending $7M per year on a swing tackle(Nsekhe) and $6M on a backup MLB(Klein) back in those days.    The mere thought of such a thing now..........or paying a Lee Smith $3.5M in this cap situation would be preposterous.

 

Where did you see that his contract just mandates that he blocks?  :doh:

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45 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But he didn't really add any significant weight according to that post, correct? For an athlete that size it's fairly insignificant. It's more important how his workout regimen has been and if he has learned techniques to avoid stressing the muscles to the point of injury. Season is long for every player so besides the regular wear and tear a few pounds of weight isn't worth worrying about imo. 

 

 

He was limited with a foot injury for much of the 2021 season(around 10-11 games per Sal Capaccio)............after coming into the season at a higher weight than his rookie season..........than he added more weight for that foot to carry this season.

 

What are you confused about?

 

If you don't want to worry about it.........then just don't.

 

Trying to convince everyone that there is no correlation whatsoever between lingering injuries to the feet or leg joints and added or unnecessary weight........by using Davis escaping the first 3 of 200 days unscathed:doh:............ isn't going to make it any more likely that he will remain healthy all season.

 

I swear some of the people on TSW are just superstitious and think that discussing concerns about player/team choices is going to will issues into existence......so they gotta' try to shout them down with baseless, illogical retorts.       

 

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12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I mean it’s not really about what they are paying him… it’s about stacking playmakers and match up winners. They brought him in to be a decent pass catching TE to pair with Knox considering this offense(and team for that matter) thrives and win games due to the passing game. 

But you really have no idea.  The dude is gigantic.  Last year we used Doyle as a TE2.  Not to be a decent pass catching TE, but to run block.  Howard’s best attribute at the moment is his run blocking.  That’s what he’s been best at.  I think that’s why they brought him in.  To have a competent run blocking TE that isn’t an offensive lineman.  One that can actually run limited routes and catch passes when they catch the defense off guard. To become more multiple in their sets and give our run game a boost, while having the option to use him in the passing game some.  

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8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was limited with a foot injury for much of the 2021 season(around 10-11 games per Sal Capaccio)............after coming into the season at a higher weight than his rookie season..........than he added more weight for that foot to carry this season.

 

What are you confused about?

 

If you don't want to worry about it.........then just don't.

 

Trying to convince everyone that there is no correlation whatsoever between lingering injuries to the feet or leg joints and added or unnecessary weight........by using Davis escaping the first 3 of 200 days unscathed:doh:............ isn't going to make it any more likely that he will remain healthy all season.

 

I swear some of the people on TSW are just superstitious and think that discussing concerns about player/team choices is going to will issues into existence......so they gotta' try to shout them down with baseless, illogical retorts.       

 

Was the foot injury due to the additional weight?  Is it not healed now?

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8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He was limited with a foot injury for much of the 2021 season(around 10-11 games per Sal Capaccio)............after coming into the season at a higher weight than his rookie season..........than he added more weight for that foot to carry this season.

 

What are you confused about?

 

If you don't want to worry about it.........then just don't.

 

Trying to convince everyone that there is no correlation whatsoever between lingering injuries to the feet or leg joints and added or unnecessary weight........by using Davis escaping the first 3 of 200 days unscathed:doh:............ isn't going to make it any more likely that he will remain healthy all season.

 

I swear some of the people on TSW are just superstitious and think that discussing concerns about player/team choices is going to will issues into existence......so they gotta' try to shout them down with baseless, illogical retorts.       

 

Excuse me?? Which part of any of my posts made you type this? 
I was expressing my point of view and yes, I choose to not be worried but I am not forcing you or anyone else to agree with me. Neither am I beating down you because you hold a different POV. 

 

This sort of response from you is ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, NewEra said:

But you really have no idea.  The dude is gigantic.  Last year we used Doyle as a TE2.  Not to be a decent pass catching TE, but to run block.  Howard’s best attribute at the moment is his run blocking.  That’s what he’s been best at.  I think that’s why they brought him in.  To have a competent run blocking TE that isn’t an offensive lineman.  One that can actually run limited routes and catch passes when they catch the defense off guard. To become more multiple in their sets and give our run game a boost, while having the option to use him in the passing game some.  

 

Hmm. I suspect they brought him in to be a receiving option first and foremost. The offense lost something when Knox missed a couple of games last year and then was limited in a couple of others and I suspect they wanted someone who in that scenario could fill in and offer them something as a receiver in a way that Sweeney failed to do. I am sure the run blocking factored into that decision as well - because while I think Knox pass blocks a bit better than Howard his skillset is similar in that he is a decent run blocker and an option in the passing game. If Howard ends up being a big upgrade on Sweeney as a blocker (not hard, a wet paper towel would be) and a moderate upgrade as a receiver they will probably still feel that is worth their while.... that is the floor they paid for to quote someone earlier. But I suspect their hope was that he could actually be a pass game weapon in his own right as well. 

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7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmm. I suspect they brought him in to be a receiving option first and foremost. The offense lost something when Knox missed a couple of games last year and then was limited in a couple of others and I suspect they wanted someone who in that scenario could fill in and offer them something as a receiver in a way that Sweeney failed to do. I am sure the run blocking factored into that decision as well - because while I think Knox pass blocks a bit better than Howard his skillset is similar in that he is a decent run blocker and an option in the passing game. If Howard ends up being a big upgrade on Sweeney as a blocker (not hard, a wet paper towel would be) and a moderate upgrade as a receiver they will probably still feel that is worth their while.... that is the floor they paid for to quote someone earlier. But I suspect their hope was that he could actually be a pass game weapon in his own right as well. 

He’s a TE2-  

 

I remember you saying on many occasions that a TE2s primary job will be as a blocker and secondary is a pass catcher.  If a TE2 can’t block, they’re worthless.  Like Hollister. Like Sweeney.  Their TE2 last year at the end of the year was an OT. 
 

I’m not saying that they don’t see him as a threat in the pass game, rather that his size and run blocking ability could be the main reasons for signing him. He hasn’t shown much as a pass catcher to date (not saying he’s not capable). So I don’t see why his ability as a reciever would be the selling point on signing him as a TE2, which are usually better blockers than receivers.  

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39 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Excuse me?? Which part of any of my posts made you type this? 
I was expressing my point of view and yes, I choose to not be worried but I am not forcing you or anyone else to agree with me. Neither am I beating down you because you hold a different POV. 

 

This sort of response from you is ridiculous. 

 

 

Nah.........you made a sarcastic post that him not being injured yet was proof that any concerns about him again adding weight were unfounded.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s a TE2-  

 

I remember you saying on many occasions that a TE2s primary job will be as a blocker and secondary is a pass catcher.  If a TE2 can’t block, they’re worthless.  Like Hollister. Like Sweeney.  Their TE2 last year at the end of the year was an OT. 
 

I’m not saying that they don’t see him as a threat in the pass game, rather that his size and run blocking ability could be the main reasons for signing him. He hasn’t shown much as a pass catcher to date (not saying he’s not capable). So I don’t see why his ability as a reciever would be the selling point on signing him as a TE2, which are usually better blockers than receivers.  

 

Personally I'd always have a blocking tight end but they need to be a better blocker than OJ Howard. He is a serviceable run blocker (but I wouldn't say he is fantastic at it) but he is a liability as a pass blocker. He has always been seen and considered as a receiving tight end since his college days, just one that has never lived up to the potential or the hype. Like I say, I think he is an upgrade on what the Bills had at TE2, even if all he can do is run block a bit and catch 20-25 passes over the season. That is the floor they paid for. But I think if they were totally honest with you they'd say they were hoping he could finally unlock the supposed potential and be a weapon in the passing game in his own right. And maybe he will, we are less than a week into camp. 

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