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Nate Herbig released


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On 5/3/2022 at 8:21 AM, NewEra said:

Ever watch our current back OGs play football?  That’s the obsession.  Our backup IOL are bad and:  Saffold has shoulder issues and is old.  Morse has concussion issues.  bates has never started more than 4 games in an nfl season.  Why would we NOT be obsessed with adding one competent IOL.  Herbig is better than our current depth.

Our backups aren't bad, they just aren't good starters. I completely disagree that Herbig is better depth.

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44 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Most of your points here are hyperbolic.    Saffold may be old, I get that, but he has been mainly healthy for the better part of the last 6 seasons.  Morse's "concussion issues" have forced him to miss one game due to injury since he signed here.   Bates, may not have started more than 4 games in an NFL season, but that didnt stop the Bills from paying him starting guard money. Beyond that he helped solidify a Oline that played pretty good football down the back stretch of last season, and into the playoffs.  Everyone you mentioned above was just signed or extended by the Bills.

 

The Bills currently have 5 guys on the roster who will be competing for the swing position, each of them outside of Jacob Capra has started multiple games in the league and multiple positions along the offensive line whether it be C/G, or G/T, all of them have position flexibility.   Herbig is a guard with no position flexibility.  

 

Its fine if you think the guys they have competing stink, I dont disagree in some situations.  If I never had to see Cody Ford play another game for the Bills I will be happy, but Guard is not the Roster Hole that people have made it out to be leading up to and post draft.    But if I am going to spend money on a guard at this point, when the Bills already have 9 on the roster, I am bringing back Daryl Williams on a 1 year deal.  That said, thats why I dont understand the obsession with bringing in another guard.

My points make sense. We’re one Saffold or Morse injury away from having Cody Ford or Greg Mancz protecting Josh Allen.  If both go down, we’ll have both starting.  Ever watch ford play?  Yeah, that’s why people want another guard.  Ever watch a Mancz?   No?  Of course not.  
 

you said you don’t want to see ford play….but are ok playing him once Morse/Saffold or Bates get injured.  Injuries happen…..and they will happen.  We lost games last year because of our OL depth.  One would think we would learn our lesson.  One OG.  That’s all…..one player.  I think you’re overreacting to people wanting to add one backup IOL

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

Our backups aren't bad, they just aren't good starters. I completely disagree that Herbig is better depth.

You watch Herbig?

 

the only rating system that I know of (pff)  rates Herbig as MUCH better than ford and better than Mancz. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that ford is better?

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6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You watch Herbig?

 

the only rating system that I know of (pff)  rates Herbig as MUCH better than ford and better than Mancz. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim that ford is better?

Cody Ford is a better athlete and a better scheme fit, in my opinion. Ford has started 29 games versus only 17 for Herbig (and starting experience was the main argument in the OP for bringing him in). I also think Ike Boettger is a high quality backup who has performed pretty well with his starting experience.

 

I don't feel strongly about this. I do, however, think it is not true to say that our backup linemen are really bad. I think Ford is an alright backup and Ike is a really good backup. I don't know much about Mancz. Obviously, you never want your backups to be starting because that's the nature of backups. But Ford and Boettger can get in and do alright.

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7 minutes ago, MJS said:

Cody Ford is a better athlete and a better scheme fit, in my opinion. Ford has started 29 games versus only 17 for Herbig (and starting experience was the main argument in the OP for bringing him in). I also think Ike Boettger is a high quality backup who has performed pretty well with his starting experience.

 

I don't feel strongly about this. I do, however, think it is not true to say that our backup linemen are really bad. I think Ford is an alright backup and Ike is a really good backup. I don't know much about Mancz. Obviously, you never want your backups to be starting because that's the nature of backups. But Ford and Boettger can get in and do alright.

You’re reasoning for choosing to have Cody ford as back up is because Ford has 29 games vs 17 games for Herbig?  I wonder if that was the reason Ford was playing over Bates all these years?  Turned out to be smart. Maybe we should start Ford or Herbig over Bates.  Bates only has 450 snaps while Herbig has 1377 and has a better PFF grade. 
 

Agree to disagree that ford is better than Herbig. Maybe he can pan out….but why not bring him in and see who wins out

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Looking at it closer, I don’t hate the idea. Apparently he has lost weight since that combine performance and Eagles fans are actually pretty upset about the loss. Is he better than Greg Mancz? Yes. Herbig gives you a backup IOL. In that Baldy clip he looks really good and Baldy calls him a fire hydrant. That is the perfect comparison. So I am open to the idea. Not really a scheme fit on paper, but an interesting guy. I’ve come around after searching a bit. 

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3 hours ago, NewEra said:

You’re reasoning for choosing to have Cody ford as back up is because Ford has 29 games vs 17 games for Herbig?  I wonder if that was the reason Ford was playing over Bates all these years?  Turned out to be smart. Maybe we should start Ford or Herbig over Bates.  Bates only has 450 snaps while Herbig has 1377 and has a better PFF grade. 
 

Agree to disagree that ford is better than Herbig. Maybe he can pan out….but why not bring him in and see who wins out

Starts wasn't my argument, it was the argument of the OP, that we should bring in Herbig because he has starting experience.

 

While I think there is some validity to and value to starting experience, I think that is secondary to everything else, including athleticism, scheme fit, and potential.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Starts wasn't my argument, it was the argument of the OP, that we should bring in Herbig because he has starting experience.

 

While I think there is some validity to and value to starting experience, I think that is secondary to everything else, including athleticism, scheme fit, and potential.

Ah ok. My bad.  He’s played pretty well….. better than our current backups.  Dunno why we wouldn’t want to kick the tires on a guy with starting exp that played decent.

 

what is the argument for NOT bringing him in?

Edited by NewEra
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2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Starts wasn't my argument, it was the argument of the OP, that we should bring in Herbig because he has starting experience.

 

While I think there is some validity to and value to starting experience, I think that is secondary to everything else, including athleticism, scheme fit, and potential.

The only valid argument I see for keeping Ford is he was a 2nd round pick and we have a new offensive line coach… otherwise the guy would be long gone at this point. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:57 AM, First Round Bust said:

thanks, Feliciano RAS was 3.17 and D Williams a 3.37. so this dude is radio-active to the Bills FO I strongly believe the punch and power days of our O-Line are over

Kromer is a zone scheme guy.  He wants athletic lineman.  

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2 minutes ago, JPL7 said:

Does anyone know why the Eagles released him?

maybe our 7th rounder from last season whom the Iggles poached from our PS mid-season may have something to do with it...it happened before in Clevela...opps sore subject..

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17 minutes ago, JPL7 said:

Does anyone know why the Eagles released him?


I guess they did not want to pay him that 2.4 million RFA tender to be a backup. 

 

I suppose it is possible he asked for his release, but I don’t think so. 

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55 minutes ago, MJS said:

Starts wasn't my argument, it was the argument of the OP, that we should bring in Herbig because he has starting experience.

 

While I think there is some validity to and value to starting experience, I think that is secondary to everything else, including athleticism, scheme fit, and potential.


My argument was multi fold. He’s young (23), he has starting experience(17 starts), he has position flexibility to Center which to me is actually way more important since Greg Mancz isn’t good, and Ryan Bates is the next best option. 
 

His RAS score isn’t great from college but he has improved his athleticism, comes from a pretty good NFL team that knows how to develop o lineman, and the Bills resigned Bobby hart and drafted Luke Tenuta who also have poor athleticism traits. 
 

 

I suspect the Bills won’t get him cause someone is going to offer him a better chance to start than we can offer. 

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32 minutes ago, JPL7 said:

Does anyone know why the Eagles released him?


I would think the biggest reason is in last years draft they took Landon Dickerson with G/C flexibility and this year they took Cam Jurgens who also has G/C position flexibility. Both of those guys were 2nd rounders. They still have Jason Kielce at Center, Isaac Seumalo who was the starter at G before he got hurt, and then a bunch of other guys like Jack Driscoll who also played G. He has an incumbent starter and 2 high draft picks ahead of him there and his biggest asset of versatility is undercut because they have two other guys who can do that. He signed his tender last week, the Eagles prob wanted to give him an opportunity to latch on someplace else

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19 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:


My argument was multi fold. He’s young (23), he has starting experience(17 starts), he has position flexibility to Center which to me is actually way more important since Greg Mancz isn’t good, and Ryan Bates is the next best option. 
 

His RAS score isn’t great from college but he has improved his athleticism, comes from a pretty good NFL team that knows how to develop o lineman, and the Bills resigned Bobby hart and drafted Luke Tenuta who also have poor athleticism traits. 
 

 

I suspect the Bills won’t get him cause someone is going to offer him a better chance to start than we can offer. 

I understand. I don't think he has the value that you perceive he does, but I guess we'll see.

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Bills are desperate for IOL depth. One injury along the interior and it's goodnight sweet prince. Still shocked they didn't prioritize the OL more this off-season. 

 

I don't think Herbig is a fit.

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There are 12 offensive linemen on the roster.  That's three more than the Bills are likely to carry on the 53 man roster.  The maximum roster for NFL teams is 90 this time of year.  There are 37 who won't make the team.  Three extra offensive linemen are not a lot.  David Quessenberry was likely signed mostly to serve as competition at swing tackle.  Seven of the twelve are interior linemen.  I'm including Cody Ford as an interior lineman though the team still lists him as a G/T.  

The tackles, I think, are pretty much set in the minds of Beane and McDermott, and they don't need to look for a lot of new talent.  I don't think Beane and McDermott have the same feeling about the interior.  Yes, Saffold, if he is healthy, is a starter, but he's not a safe bet to stay healthy.  Bates seemed to have played well late last season, but that's not a long time to make assessments that determine rosters.  I think Beane is open to and interested in upgrading the overall talent in the interior of the line, even if it ends up just changing up the backups.  The caveat, as always, is cost and cap room.  If they have too many on the roster, they can always cut a fringe guy, if they find a better guy.  Yes, there are some fringe guys on the roster.  Jacob Capra anyone?

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On 5/3/2022 at 9:39 AM, gonzo1105 said:

Boy tough crowd today. 23 year old guard with 17 starts on a good offensive line in Philly. If he was 30 I would have not even posted but guys his age with starts don’t come on the market often. I tried to find a place in a current thread and couldn’t really find 

 

Ya it's pretty toxic around here at times. I wouldn't take it personal.

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2 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

 

Ya it's pretty toxic around here at times. I wouldn't take it personal.

I don't think anyone is being toxic in this thread. Disagreement is not toxic.

11 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

There are 12 offensive linemen on the roster.  That's three more than the Bills are likely to carry on the 53 man roster.  The maximum roster for NFL teams is 90 this time of year.  There are 37 who won't make the team.  Three extra offensive linemen are not a lot.  David Quessenberry was likely signed mostly to serve as competition at swing tackle.  Seven of the twelve are interior linemen.  I'm including Cody Ford as an interior lineman though the team still lists him as a G/T.  

The tackles, I think, are pretty much set in the minds of Beane and McDermott, and they don't need to look for a lot of new talent.  I don't think Beane and McDermott have the same feeling about the interior.  Yes, Saffold, if he is healthy, is a starter, but he's not a safe bet to stay healthy.  Bates seemed to have played well late last season, but that's not a long time to make assessments that determine rosters.  I think Beane is open to and interested in upgrading the overall talent in the interior of the line, even if it ends up just changing up the backups.  The caveat, as always, is cost and cap room.  If they have too many on the roster, they can always cut a fringe guy, if they find a better guy.  Yes, there are some fringe guys on the roster.  Jacob Capra anyone?

Bates was paid a multi-year deal. He is paid like a starter and I think it is clear he is viewed as a starter by the franchise. If he doesn't start, that's a huge swing and a miss by Beane considering the contract he just gave him.

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