nkreed Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 55 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: What specifically makes the 6 hour slug at Starbucks “deplorable”? You have now specified Starbucks vs the retail industry in general. While I may not know the specific reasons these workers organized, I will tell you that some retail jobs are lower fruit on the tree to pick. Would an organizer pick the highest turnover company first to try to organize, or one that may have a more stable workforce? I know I'd choose the easier one to pick off first if I were an organizer. 55 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Btw, here’s an example of Starbucks benefit package for employees. https://www.starbucks.com/assets/7343fbbdc87845ff9a000ee009707893.pdf Great. There's more to it than just those benefit packages. They seem great on the outside, but are the health plans high deductible high OOP plans? Who knows unless you work there. 55 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Finally, you keep mentioning that these jobs aren’t just for teenagers anymore. Why does that matter to the employer, if the job can be done by a teenager after study hall to begin with? It doesn't matter to the employer, but it matters to you for the understanding of who is employed in these jobs. That pre-COVID these kinds of jobs were the only available and attainable jobs. Companies were asking for too much experience with low pay and were getting the jobs filled. I can't believe that I'm saying this, but maybe COVID has reversed the pendulum on who has the leverage in pay and benefits jobs back to the workers. 55 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I’m not anti-union, but feel like I’m pro-common sense. My father and mother were both union members, as are/were many members of my family. Well what's funny about common sense is that it isn't always accurate. I'm not staying that about you, just about common sense in general. 22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: You’re making my point. Labor unions for unskilled workers in particular are business killers. Unions are what killed Buffalo. Go ahead and research that one. Sure it’s a nice idea for the rank and file to have a domineering voice and be way over paid for jobs that any idiot can do for minimum wage until it just becomes another corrupt political organization and lazy human nature takes over. I worked in union shops and non unions shops in the manufacturing world. Unions are business killers. Also, most western factories have automated labor out significantly over the years, prioritizing high wage and unionized labor forces first. Nope, you just have been taught that the Unions killed the jobs. There are still tons of profitable companies within Buffalo that are unionized. The jobs went away because that's how economics and globalization work. If the steel mills were non-union it wouldn't have stopped their ramp down of production within the US. You can thank globalization for that. Also, any company will take the high paying jobs first. What you should be asking is why were the Union people paid well? Why settle for less pay if they are going to outsource anyway. (Also those Union jobs led to steady employment and better running lines, likely) 22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Now to retail… Retail industry waiter and waitress are meant to be entry level not career paths. If entry level wait staff is a career objective then that’s on you. Also, you apparently have missed what the automation of shopping (Amazon) has done to retail (have you been to a shopping mall in the past 5 years?) it’s withering and dying. Just because they are supposed to be entry level doesn't mean that they are. And waiters/waitresses have been living off those jobs for centuries. Oh I get that Amazon has killed brick and mortars, but they won't kill the food industry, because they can't. 22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: job comp should be commensurate with how easy it is to find people to do it and what they are willing to work for. Make it artificially over costly and suffer the inevitable consequences. Labor laws provide workers plenty of protections in 2021. See pendulum comment above. Also there is a big difference between having a law and enforcing it. Just because "worker protections" exist in theory, doesn't mean they are followed. If you're at-will are you taking the chance to call out the employer? 22 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Look- if all you pro union hypocrites practiced what you preached and bought the more expensive lower quality goods because it had a made by union labor stamp on it, unions would be all the rage. Unfortunately you want your unions because it sounds nice, but in your economic illiteracy fail to realize you need to subsidize that with your purchasing decision. Except that it's impossible to do so when national percentage is 6%. You want to blame that SMALL portion of society for the economic woes, but instead of taking the position of the workers, you take the position of the companies who pay feeble wages. What's interesting is you take half the argument and stop at the negative, of illiteracy, but don't continue to say that more purchasing could be done with more pay and benefits, thus increasing the economic return for others. You're looking at the spiral from the above and seeing it go down, while I'm looking at it from below seeing it go up. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Unions only "kill" businesses because the USG, since the 1960s, has failed its people. Any talk about unions or no unions doesn't even matter until we fix the real issues driving down wages and work conditions: unlimited immigration, penalty-free outsourcing and offshoring, and refusal to break modern-day trusts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Would the employees also then share the losses? Do profitable companies like Amazon , Walmart and Starbucks lose money ? In bad years there is no profit sharing the good years make up for any bad year. If you are locked into high wages instead of profit sharing you have a problem in a down year. With so many businesses begging for workers this is the way to attract them. jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, nkreed said: You have now specified Starbucks vs the retail industry in general. While I may not know the specific reasons these workers organized, I will tell you that some retail jobs are lower fruit on the tree to pick. Would an organizer pick the highest turnover company first to try to organize, or one that may have a more stable workforce? I know I'd choose the easier one to pick off first if I were an organizer. It's a thread about Starbucks, that's why I used Starbucks. I don't disagree, by the way, that organizers choose the low-hanging fruit, and at the risk of repeating myself, unionizing is big business. If the goal is to grow the business, the business owner should start with the customer most likely to buy their product. It's far easier to convince a person they are a victim of some evil bloodthirsty conglomerate when their options are limited and they are unsophisticated in general. 1 hour ago, nkreed said: Great. There's more to it than just those benefit packages. They seem great on the outside, but are the health plans high deductible high OOP plans? Who knows unless you work there. See, herein lies the problem. You're conditioned to believe that a high deductible health plan is problematic, and the reality is a high deductible health plan for most people is THE answer. In fact, the move to high deductible health plans as the standard would go a long way towards solving the cost issue with health insurance in general. Unfortunately, people are conditioned to believe they are getting screwed absent a plan with a $5 co-pay to kindly old Doc Jones like it's 1954. Meanwhile, they go out and drop $1200 on a new iPhone, and $50 a month so they can order a Super Mighty from the traffic light at Delaware and Hertel. I have a family member who lurks here, a Teamster who pointed out that the benefit booklet I linked to may not reflect current offerings as there are references to 2012 in the book. I want to acknowledge that it's possible that all those plans may have been sh%tcanned in conjunction to the perpetual push for profit profit profit by Starbucks. Be that as it may, you were the one who mentioned deplorable conditions at these retail jobs. Since it was your characterization, I'll ask again---what did you mean by 'deplorable'? The concept of a high deductible plan? 1 hour ago, nkreed said: It doesn't matter to the employer, but it matters to you for the understanding of who is employed in these jobs. That pre-COVID these kinds of jobs were the only available and attainable jobs. Companies were asking for too much experience with low pay and were getting the jobs filled. I can't believe that I'm saying this, but maybe COVID has reversed the pendulum on who has the leverage in pay and benefits jobs back to the workers. You're losing me again. Retail companies in general were requiring substantial experience to work the loading dock at Walmart, cover the drive through at McD's, or work the floor at Macy's? That defies both logic and common sense. Additionally, it only matters to me as a consumer. I neither benefit nor am harmed by the fact that a company chooses to hire a 51 year old female with a master's degree to stack appliances on the shelf at Target v a 17 year old male who has an abbreviated schedule at school, is industrious and wants to make a few extra bucks each week. At least, not until it impacts me in what I pay for the services, at which time I have a decision to make. And by the way--honest work is honest work and should be respected with a reasonable wage. We all have our stories--my first job included cleaning toilets (non-union employer), and some life experiences stick with you. I respect the 51 year old for the work, but that doesn't change the fact that a 51 year old may have different goals and expectations than the 17 year old, and it does not make the work inherently more valuable. 1 hour ago, nkreed said: Well what's funny about common sense is that it isn't always accurate. I'm not staying that about you, just about common sense in general. Nope, you just have been taught that the Unions killed the jobs. There are still tons of profitable companies within Buffalo that are unionized. The jobs went away because that's how economics and globalization work. If the steel mills were non-union it wouldn't have stopped their ramp down of production within the US. You can thank globalization for that. I fundamentally agree with your premise here on globalization, but union's certainly contributed to the exodus. We can have a civil conversation and recognize that. I also believe at times that some union employees are very picky about how things play out in their particular industry, but seem less concerned about the plight of other employees in other industries unrelated to theirs. Many years ago, I bought a Chevy to commute from my home in the lower Hudson Valley to the Albany area when my job changed. I was in WNY one weekend, speaking to a family member who worked for GM who told me I bought a rice rocket, apparently because of a collaboration between Chevy and Toyota. He was a proud buy-American guy, at least until you got in his living room and looked at some of the electronics he liked to collect. Interestingly, I didn't point that out, it was my brother-in-law (UAW member) who pointed that out. My point here is if union members are not in simpatico with these issues, it should not be surprising that non-union individuals, business owners and corporations feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 On 12/8/2021 at 7:27 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Headline story on CNBC tonight. Buffalo Starbucks unionization vote!! They’ll shut it down in a month. All Starbucks has is brand recognition and service. wait til the first person waits 30 minutes for their Frappuccino order only to get to the cashier and be told “sorry, it’s muh break time” Or “I'm the cold beverage specialist, the hot specialist is out today” These two women on the news are hilarious. Good lord this newer generation is entitled… wait until they find out they don't get paid for not working Unionized Starbucks Workers Walk Out of Buffalo Store, Say Health Concerns Not Met (msn.com) Six employees of the Buffalo, New York Starbucks that voted to unionize last month walked out of the store Wednesday, citing concerns that the lack of staff could put the health of their workers and customers at risk as COVID cases are spiking in the area. About a third of the staff is currently out because of a positive COVID test or exposure to someone who has tested positive, according to Starbucks Workers United. The workers said they will return to work when they feel they have enough staff and resources to do their work safely. A return Monday is possible. The six employees who left the store formed a picket line outside with three left inside before Starbucks eventually decided to close the store for the day. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/unionized-starbucks-workers-walk-out-of-buffalo-store-say-health-concerns-not-met/ar-AAStJdF?ocid=msedgntp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 minute ago, B-Man said: wait until they find out they don't get paid for not working Unionized Starbucks Workers Walk Out of Buffalo Store, Say Health Concerns Not Met (msn.com) Six employees of the Buffalo, New York Starbucks that voted to unionize last month walked out of the store Wednesday, citing concerns that the lack of staff could put the health of their workers and customers at risk as COVID cases are spiking in the area. About a third of the staff is currently out because of a positive COVID test or exposure to someone who has tested positive, according to Starbucks Workers United. The workers said they will return to work when they feel they have enough staff and resources to do their work safely. A return Monday is possible. The six employees who left the store formed a picket line outside with three left inside before Starbucks eventually decided to close the store for the day. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/unionized-starbucks-workers-walk-out-of-buffalo-store-say-health-concerns-not-met/ar-AAStJdF?ocid=msedgntp And wait until the customers who came there for coffee find a new place and they close this Starbucks. Another high paying union job win for progress!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 10 minutes ago, B-Man said: wait until they find out they don't get paid for not working Unionized Starbucks Workers Walk Out of Buffalo Store, Say Health Concerns Not Met (msn.com) Six employees of the Buffalo, New York Starbucks that voted to unionize last month walked out of the store Wednesday, citing concerns that the lack of staff could put the health of their workers and customers at risk as COVID cases are spiking in the area. About a third of the staff is currently out because of a positive COVID test or exposure to someone who has tested positive, according to Starbucks Workers United. The workers said they will return to work when they feel they have enough staff and resources to do their work safely. A return Monday is possible. The six employees who left the store formed a picket line outside with three left inside before Starbucks eventually decided to close the store for the day. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/unionized-starbucks-workers-walk-out-of-buffalo-store-say-health-concerns-not-met/ar-AAStJdF?ocid=msedgntp So 3 walked out, and 3 were pseudo-scabs? Someone sent me this photo from the actual picket line. Looks tense...maybe the caffeine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Do Trumpers also hate Police unions? Or does that not fit into the war on the poor theme they love so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Do Trumpers also hate Police unions? Or does that not fit into the war on the poor theme they love so much? Do Marxist like police? Tibs doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, Westside said: Do Marxist like police? Tibs doesn’t. Putin is a Marxist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: More false choices.........😆 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: Putin is a Marxist So is the Democrat Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninSarasota Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: Do Trumpers also hate Police unions? Or does that not fit into the war on the poor theme they love so much? Non sequitur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 There are other coffee options out there besides Starbucks: https://nypost.com/2022/02/23/tiktok-bikini-barista-goes-viral-with-wild-work-stories/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 14, 2022 Author Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) In a shocking unforeseeable turn of events, some of the unionized Starbucks are starting to shut down for completely unrelated reasons. 😂 Who ever could have imagined this happening??? Edited July 14, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Or Tim Hortons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 👆🤡👇 On 10/10/2023 at 8:00 PM, B-Man said: You can always tell when Billstime wants to change the subjects. He always does his "nightly"bump of his threads earlier than usual. It seems tonight is one of those. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, BillStime said: News is news. (and put simply, you bump your own threads nightly. I don't.) I can see you sitting there, hoping to use my post anywhere you can (for 3 days) And it was such a weak attempt, but I know that you are proud of it anyway. JUST IN: Starbucks Employees Union Expresses 'Support for Palestine' Following Recent Hamas Terrorist Attacks.. Starbucks Workers United, representing around 9,000 Starbucks baristas, faced backlash after expressing "solidarity with Palestine" following a recent Hamas attack on Israelis. The union, based in Buffalo, NY, later deleted the post but "liked" a tweet from one of its members stating, "Once again, free Palestine." US Senator Rick Scott called for a boycott of Starbucks and criticized the union for its tweets, urging the company to denounce support for terrorism. Starbucks swiftly distanced itself from the union, asserting its condemnation of acts of terrorism and disagreeing with the statements made by Workers United. The coffee chain emphasized that SWU and SEIU do not represent the company's views. Edited October 14, 2023 by B-Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 20 minutes ago, B-Man said: News is news. (and put simply, you bump your own threads nightly. I don't.) I can see you sitting there, hoping to use my post anywhere you can (for 3 days) And it was such a weak attempt, but I know that you are proud of it anyway. Hack harder Bonnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Good for them. I hope they win and I hope they affiliate with another, bigger Union, like CSEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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