Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Ya, they are at war, did you miss the part where they were invaded, or do you not recognize anything Putin does as wrong? 

 

You are an idiot. 

yes. in 2014

 

Didn't those states/regions already have an election. or was that a scam election?

 

But yes. the people in that region and in Ukraine are the ones suffering. Because of PUTIN and now Ukraine/USA.

 

 

the same Ukrainian government that has been attacking them since 2014?

 

you think they gonna vote for the Ukrainian government in this democracy thing you speak of?

 

What's the end goal. where is the border going to be?

 

Got a feeling most of the actual people just want the bombs and guns to stop..  

 

but hey. its about democracy, amirite

 

 

And every time you use ad hominem its you waving the white flag.

 

 

[Tiberius]

Just now, Chris farley said:

yes. in 2014

 

Didn't those states/regions already have an election. or was that a scam election?

 

But yes. the people in that region and in Ukraine are the ones suffering. Because of PUTIN and now Ukraine/USA.

 

 

the same Ukrainian government that has been attacking them since 2014?

 

you think they gonna vote for the Ukrainian government in this democracy thing you speak of?

 

What's the end goal. where is the border going to be?

 

Got a feeling most of the actual people just want the bombs and guns to stop..  

 

but hey. its about democracy, amirite

 

 

Poor guy. It actually pains you were are protecting a functioning democracy 

 

 

[TSOL]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Ya, they are at war, did you miss the part where they were invaded, or do you not recognize anything Putin does as wrong? 

 

You are an idiot. 

I'm not cheering Putin's invasion, who is doing that? 

 

You are acting like a people defending themselves is wrong, how stupid. 

 

You people are just ignorant sh it heads 

 

 

Use diplomacy to end it, don't pour gasoline on it.  Ya dummy 

 

Biden administration sucks so bad it's gross. 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Poor guy. It actually pains you were are protecting a functioning democracy 

 

 

Where is the functioning democracy. articulate if possible.

 

insults are you giving up. 

 

 

[BuffaninSarasota]

2 hours ago, Chris farley said:

what's not shocking is the statist calling anyone that doesn't agree with their corporate/statist narrative, insults.

 

its actually so 2016.

 

 

shocking - another Twit for brains lobbing the "fascist" canard at his political opposition

 

"fascism" - the most misused/overused word in 2022.

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, BuffaninSarasota said:

shocking - another Twit for brains lobbing the "fascist" canard at his political opposition

 

"fascism" - the most misused/overused word in 2022.

its all they do anymore. it was racist or nazi but that lost any meaning, so they have moved on to fascist.

 

while they parrot the state and corporation funded pacs.

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Where is the functioning democracy. articulate if possible.

 

insults are you giving up. 

 

 

No, you deserve to be insulted. You are an idiot 

 

And Ukraine is a functioning democracy. 

 

Let me guess, you don't think the USA is a functioning democratic republic either, right? 

[Demongyz]

18 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Did he declare martial law?

Did he remove the opposition party?

Banned churches?

 

How many civilians have died?  how many more will die with escalation?

 

What is the actual goal of the war?

 

 

 

this cheerleading for the MIC is at levels that would make the old bush/Cheney war monger supporters take notes

 

 

Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The way they've always done before
Так же, как и прежде

Look at the hate we're breeding
Look at the fear we're feeding
Look at the lives we're leading
The way we've always done before

 

I don't need your stinking war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh

 

That old Guns and roses song seems to hit the spot anymore.

 

 

Well, I mean you changed the lyrics as the song is Civil War...

 

But yeah, it applies.

[Tommy Callahan]

Just now, Tiberius said:

No, you deserve to be insulted. You are an idiot 

 

And Ukraine is a functioning democracy. 

 

Let me guess, you don't think the USA is a functioning democratic republic either, right? 

thats a silly strawman.  WE have two corporate and elite funded private corporations we call parties. of course, its functioning.

 

And My bad. I guess Ukraine is the model for a functioning democracy.

 

All democracies are formed by Euromaidan with outside influence and only have one party.

 

or the 2014/2015 "Revolution of Honour". The student protests organized to force President Viktor Yanukovych and Prime Minister Mykola Azarov to sign an association agreement with the EU, that developed into a revolution that overthrew the government and sparked a counter-revolution in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region.

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Demongyz said:

Well, I mean you changed the lyrics as the song is Civil War...

 

But yeah, it applies.

I changed civil to stinking. the horror.

 

and the interesting part is that actually what is happening in ukraine.

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

thats a silly strawman.  WE have two corporate and elite funded private corporations we call parties. of course, its functioning.

 

I guess that's a no? Seems you don't like our government either, whatever 

[Tommy Callahan]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I guess that's a no? Seems you don't like our government either, whatever 

Welp Tibs, that would make me in the huge majority on that.

 

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballotpedia's_Polling_Index:_Direction_of_country_rating

 

most don't like the fact our government is openly funded by corps and the elites using PACS and charities...

 

Not many are impressed with this Omni bill or shut down the government BS.

 

The list could go on all day.

 

ITs ok. Every country has its loyal statist. you have your role to play.  

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Welp Tibs, that would make me in the huge majority on that.

 

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballotpedia's_Polling_Index:_Direction_of_country_rating

 

most don't like the fact our government is openly funded by corps and the elites using PACS and charities...

 

Not many are impressed with this Omni bill or shut down the government BS.

 

The list could go on all day.

 

ITs ok. Every country has its loyal statist. you have your role to play.  

 

 

 

 

So? 

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Chris farley said:

Like I said, when I see it I will believe it.  

 the Rubble is back in the 14-16 cent to the dollar range. its been there since feb/march when it was at 7 cents...

 

 

You may have misplaced a decimal somewhere, or something, but the Ruble is nowhere near 14-16 cents US.

 

The exchange rate in the open market today is 68.55 rubes to the dollar.

 

That after massive intervention and restrictions imposed by the Russian gov to support it earlier in the year.

 

And they sure as hell aren't getting anything close to WTI or Brent North Sea prices for their dirty fuel.

 

Economy shrinking. revenue shrinking. Foreign exchange being depleted.

 

Only one path for them.

[Tommy Callahan]

7 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

You may have misplaced a decimal somewhere, or something, but the Ruble is nowhere near 14-16 cents US.

 

The exchange rate in the open market today is 68.55 rubes to the dollar.

 

That after massive intervention and restrictions imposed by the Russian gov to support it earlier in the year.

 

And they sure as hell aren't getting anything close to WTI or Brent North Sea prices for their dirty fuel.

 

Economy shrinking. revenue shrinking. Foreign exchange being depleted.

 

Only one path for them.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/foreign-exchange-reserves

 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=RU

 

Really cool use of all those terms. but only took a second to fact check.

 

The best path would be the war mongers sit down and statemen find a peace deal..a way out of this mess.

 

Shoot, whats the end goal. to go back to pre 2014 border?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Chris farley

[Coffeesforclosers]

49 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/foreign-exchange-reserves

 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=RU

 

Really cool use of all those terms. but only took a second to fact check.

 

The best path would be the war mongers sit down and statemen find a peace deal..a way out of this mess.

 

Shoot, whats the end goal. to go back to pre 2014 border?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know that your first link gives the exact same exchange rate @sherpaquoted right? 1 Ruble= .0145 USD? Aka $1 = 68 Rubles? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

You may have misplaced a decimal somewhere, or something, but the Ruble is nowhere near 14-16 cents US.

 

The exchange rate in the open market today is 68.55 rubes to the dollar.

 

That after massive intervention and restrictions imposed by the Russian gov to support it earlier in the year.

 

And they sure as hell aren't getting anything close to WTI or Brent North Sea prices for their dirty fuel.

 

Economy shrinking. revenue shrinking. Foreign exchange being depleted.

 

Only one path for them.

To run their foreign exchange and payment transactions

outside dollar based banking platforms.

Edited December 22, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[OrangeBills]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Wrong. More Russian occupation is more pain. Winning is good. 

 

Putin is being beaten down and that's just a good thing. He can't help people win elections here now. Love that. 

 

Perhaps you don't realize this, but that was the argument for the Vietnam War.  

 

We assuage conflict on this planet everywhere almost every day (I'm told)...why we are blasting Billions of Dollars, but more importantly hundreds of thousands of lives, over some regions near Russia when Obama simply let them annex Crimea, HAS to be perplexing even to a Biden lover like you, no?

[Big Blitz]

I’m just going to say yes, yes Rand did do this lol

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

8 hours ago, Tiberius said:

LOL 

 

You really are losing it. 

 

Losing 

I’m losing it? Hardly. I’m not the one obsessing over some symbolic conflict on the other side of the planet as a substitute for throwing a hissy fit because your pathetic, corrupt idol lost to a blowhard like Donald Trump. 

[ChiGoose]

2 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Perhaps you don't realize this, but that was the argument for the Vietnam War.  

 

We assuage conflict on this planet everywhere almost every day (I'm told)...why we are blasting Billions of Dollars, but more importantly hundreds of thousands of lives, over some regions near Russia when Obama simply let them annex Crimea, HAS to be perplexing even to a Biden lover like you, no?

 

I don't think supporting Ukraine to this extent was the original plan. If I remember correctly, the Biden administration offered to pull Zelensky out of Kyiv and set up a government-in-exile when Ukraine inevitably fell to the Russians. Based on the poor performance of the Ukrainian military in 2014, there was little expectation that they would have much success against the much larger and better-resourced Russian military.

 

But after Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, Ukraine changed it's military posture from a post-Soviet strategy to one aspiring to NATO standards. The goal was to better adhere to how Western militaries worked (valuing the lives of the soldier, delegation of control to NCO's in the field, advanced Western weaponry, etc.) instead of continuing the Russian model of meat grinders and a kleptocratic military leadership, which had clearly failed.

 

What we didn't realize was how successful they had been. I think if we had known, we may have provided them more arms prior to the invasion. But we thought this was basically the same army that got its ass handed to it 6 years prior and had basically no chance of winning. Instead, they surprised the world and repelled the initial invasion in the north on their own, though they still struggled in the east and south. Once it became apparent that the individual Ukrainian units were far superior to their Russian counterparts, the question became: what support do they need to actually win this thing (or at the least, get back to the 2014 borders via truce)?

 

In the end, a Ukrainian defeat of the Russian army aligns with the United States' global strategic goals and diminishes the powers of those who wish to take the global hegemony away from us and put it in the hands of the China-Russia-Iran (and maybe India?) axis. For just a fraction of our budget and none of our blood, that seems a worthy investment to me.