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Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦


Tiberius

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1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

One thing I find ironic about Hollywood is that the overwhelming majority advocate and support all kinds of gun control and social justice causes but still work and earn a living in movies that are full of gratuitous gun violence, lots of killings, and blowing stuff up.   

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2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing I find ironic about Hollywood is that the overwhelming majority advocate and support all kinds of gun control and social justice causes but still work and earn a living in movies that are full of gratuitous gun violence, lots of killings, and blowing stuff up.   

And war movies, pandemics, disaster movies, sexual content, crime, etc. They provide the public with what they want. It's called capitalism 

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36 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

And war movies, pandemics, disaster movies, sexual content, crime, etc. They provide the public with what they want. It's called capitalism 

So today you're going to lecture us on the virtues capitalism while supporting all of Biden's market interference initiatives? 

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15 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

So today you're going to lecture us on the virtues capitalism while supporting all of Biden's market interference initiatives? 

You mean like building computer chips right here in the good old USA? 

 

 

Horrible! 

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They are not hiding their aim in American politics.  Russias war aims go through the American political system. A vote for Trump is a vote for criminal war, genocide and war against democracy 

Quote

 

Orban says Trump is ‘hope for peace’ in Ukraine

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By Loveday Morris

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban on Tuesday accused the United States of perpetuating the war in Ukraine by providing weapons and said there should be U. S-Russian negotiations to bring about a cease-fire.

“The Ukrainians have endless resources because they get all that from the Americans,” Orban said at an event hosted by Germany’s Cicero magazine and Berliner Zeitung during a visit to the German capital.

“Hope for peace is named Donald Trump,” he added, according to the official interpretation, saying that President Biden had gone “too far” by saying that Russian President Vladimir Putin should not remain in power.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/11/russia-ukraine-war-latest-updates/

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On 10/10/2022 at 7:49 AM, Tiberius said:

Would you care if one side was spewing foreign propaganda? 

 

 

What propaganda are you prattling on about? Much like the legal v illegal immigration debate, the discussions surrounding the Ukraine invasion are not about whether Putin’s a nice guy. They’re about how much the US taxpayers are supposed to cough up to keep this war going. Tibs, this small incursion has been going on for months and months now with seemingly no peace discussions on the horizon. It’s WAY WAY past time for the adults to come in and break up this fight.

Edited by SoCal Deek
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27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What propaganda are you prattling on about? Much like the legal v illegal immigration debate, the discussions surrounding the Ukraine invasion are not about whether Putin’s a nice guy. They’re about how much the US taxpayers are supposed to cough up to keep this war going. Tibs, this small incursion has been going on for months and months now with seemingly no peace discussions on the horizon. It’s WAY WAY past time for the adults to come in and break up this fight.

Would you care? 

 

Obviously not 

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1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

 It’s WAY WAY past time for the adults to come in and break up this fight.

 

Nah, it's not.  Nobody's won yet.  And if nobody's won, you're either talking about "peacekeepers", or the peace treaty is just an ceasefire while everybody gears up for round two.

Edited by Coffeesforclosers
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6 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing I find ironic about Hollywood is that the overwhelming majority advocate and support all kinds of gun control and social justice causes but still work and earn a living in movies that are full of gratuitous gun violence, lots of killings, and blowing stuff up.   

I mean, that's what people buy right?

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12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

So if we aren't giving the Ukranians the weapons they need to win....what exactly are 'we' doing? 

 

Tried to keep escalation against Ukraine manageable but that has not worked against Putin. 

 

Crimea bridge attack arrests as market in Donetsk region attacked

Its FSB security service said five of those held were Russians, while the others were Ukrainian and Armenian.

It says Kyiv was behind the attack but a Ukrainian official described Russia's investigation as "nonsense"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63225947

 

Yet Putin retaliated against civilian targets

Edited by ALF
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2 hours ago, ALF said:

 

Tried to keep escalation against Ukraine manageable but that has not worked against Putin. 

 

Crimea bridge attack arrests as market in Donetsk region attacked

Its FSB security service said five of those held were Russians, while the others were Ukrainian and Armenian.

It says Kyiv was behind the attack but a Ukrainian official described Russia's investigation as "nonsense"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63225947

 

Yet Putin retaliated against civilian targets

So you’re saying that for over six months we failed at ‘managing’ this conflict and therefore we’re NOW going to start giving the Ukrainians what they need? Or are we still just managing it? 

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11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So you’re saying that for over six months we failed at ‘managing’ this conflict and therefore we’re NOW going to start giving the Ukrainians what they need? Or are we still just managing it? 

Is that what you think? 

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1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

What do you think? 

About whether we should be ‘managing’ a war? No, we shouldn’t.

 

About whether from the very beginning we should have given Ukraine what they needed to win? Yes, we should’ve. But Biden was once again clueless, anticipating a small incursion (his words not mine). 

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1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

About whether we should be ‘managing’ a war? No, we shouldn’t.

 

About whether from the very beginning we should have given Ukraine what they needed to win? Yes, we should’ve. But Biden was once again clueless, anticipating a small incursion (his words not mine). 

So you think those appeasers who were against helping Ukraine were totally wrong then, right? 

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Just now, Tiberius said:

So you think those appeasers who were against helping Ukraine were totally wrong then, right? 

Actually I think we should’ve stepped in BEFORE any of this got started. But once it did, you go in strong and end it fast! So….if all we’re going to do is ‘manage’ a war then I don’t blame what you call the appeasers. The current Biden policy is utterly ridiculous. 

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5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Actually I think we should’ve stepped in BEFORE any of this got started. But once it did, you go in strong and end it fast! So….if all we’re going to do is ‘manage’ a war then I don’t blame what you call the appeasers. The current Biden policy is utterly ridiculous. 

Why is it ridiculous? just because he is a Democrat? 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Why is it ridiculous? just because he is a Democrat? 

 

 

Huh? It’s ridiculous because it’s been an utter disaster for the people of Ukraine. Everything isn’t about American politics! Get off your partisan soapbox. This wasn’t a surprise attack. This wasn’t Pearl Harbor. What was the Biden Administration doing during the build up on the border? They were watching the Winter Olympics! 

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2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Huh? It’s ridiculous because it’s been an utter disaster for the people of Ukraine. Everything isn’t about American politics! Get off your partisan soapbox. This wasn’t a surprise attack. This wasn’t Pearl Harbor. What was the Biden Administration doing during the build up on the border? They were watching the Winter Olympics! 

You are so partisan. Such spin! You are literally blaming Biden for Putin attacking Ukraine. How silly 

 

Do you still play on a sit and spin? 

 

image.png.3718985df34a6e4910c06b81fdae697d.png

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5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You are so partisan. Such spin! You are literally blaming Biden for Putin attacking Ukraine. How silly 

 

Do you still play on a sit and spin? 

 

image.png.3718985df34a6e4910c06b81fdae697d.png

I’m not blaming Biden for the attack. I’m blaming Biden for the response and for not stepping in to stop it before the attack….and you know it. But instead of admitting it you fall back on childish nonsense as expected.

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1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not blaming Biden for the attack. I’m blaming Biden for the response and for not stepping in to stop it before the attack….and you know it. But instead of admitting it you fall back on childish nonsense as expected.

Stop it how? What are you saying here? 

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3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Stop it how? What are you saying here? 

By doing the hard work of diplomacy and assembling a coalition of our allies to make it clear that ANY incursion would not be tolerated…before it starts. How about that? But what were we doing…watching figure skating and hoping not to embarrass China while they were throwing a party.

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4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

By doing the hard work of diplomacy and assembling a coalition of our allies to make it clear that ANY incursion would not be tolerated…before it starts. How about that? But what were we doing…watching figure skating and hoping not to embarrass China while they were throwing a party.

We should have threatened war? 

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On 9/27/2022 at 10:06 AM, SoCal Deek said:

Unbelievable!  The United States does not have the money or resources to turn every other country into a 'democracy'...nor is it our role in the world. (Paging George Bush, paging George Bush). Similarly, we do not have the money, space or resources to accept every person around the world who claims they are coming here seeking asylum. This is a fool's errand. 

Now you are saying Biden didn't do enough??? 

 

image.png.a87a9ba8b6f88de9d81f603a5fe35907.png

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20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

By doing the hard work of diplomacy and assembling a coalition of our allies to make it clear that ANY incursion would not be tolerated…before it starts. How about that? But what were we doing…watching figure skating and hoping not to embarrass China while they were throwing a party.

Maybe you were but our intelligence community had this one nailed.  The Ukranian citizens barely believed it was going to happen.  Our intel community was jumping up and down about it in the months leading up.  A coalition would have been different than NATO in what way?  Should NATO have made a more specific threat to Putin?

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20 minutes ago, LDD said:

Maybe you were but our intelligence community had this one nailed.  The Ukranian citizens barely believed it was going to happen.  Our intel community was jumping up and down about it in the months leading up.  A coalition would have been different than NATO in what way?  Should NATO have made a more specific threat to Putin?

 

Fully agree with this.

The US intel community had this specifically predicted.

It was almost like they had very reliable informants in Russian offices.

 

This one's on Putin, and ugly as the end game may be, he caused it and he will pay the consequences

 

Unfortunately, totally avoidable, so not only Putin, but NATO, the Russians, the US taxpayer and more importantly, the Ukrainians are paying the initial cost. 

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1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

By doing the hard work of diplomacy and assembling a coalition of our allies to make it clear that ANY incursion would not be tolerated…before it starts. How about that? But what were we doing…watching figure skating and hoping not to embarrass China while they were throwing a party.

 

Yeah, you really need to go back and read up on our actions prior to the invasion. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Fully agree with this.

The US intel community had this specifically predicted.

It was almost like they had very reliable informants in Russian offices.

 

This one's on Putin, and ugly as the end game may be, he caused it and he will pay the consequences

 

Unfortunately, totally avoidable, so not only Putin, but NATO, the Russians, the US taxpayer and more importantly, the Ukrainians are paying the initial cost. 

 

I loved the part where Macron fired his chief of intelligence when Russia invaded.  Because his chief of intelligence told him there was no way America could have penetrated Russian security so completely. 

Edited by Coffeesforclosers
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