dave mcbride Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Big C said: Sure, but by that logic Lamar shouldn’t have gotten #1 last year. Jackson was excellent the year before too and had also won the mvp. More importantly, Jackson’s 2019 season was statistically incredible — 113.3 rating, led the league in td passes, AND rushed for over 1200 yards. He had an AV (PFR’s NFL equivalent of WAR) of 25, which is the highest I’ve ever seen. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00.htm. Bear in mind that the Ravens regularly blew teams out that year. Edited August 29, 2021 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 13 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Admittedly I was surprised, I'd have thought he'd have been higher but;..... Allen is a one year franchise QB at this point. Most of these others all have longer and stronger resumes. There is still some skepticism on Allen, he goes out and have a season in 2021 like 2020, that will all go away. I'm sure there are some who'd argue that after what they saw the first two seasons from Allen, they just can't vote him top 5 or so compared to others and it's a somewhat legit argument. It's kind of like making the Pro Bowl, it quickly becomes a lifetime achievement award and Allen needs more than one great year to knock those guys down. Did Allen even make the top 100 last season, I'm guessing not, so to go from not on the list to top 10 in one season is pretty amazing in itself. Are there any other players in the top 10 who'd never made the list before? Even the top 20? Allen was 87th last year, shooting down all the people who say that Allen was a question mark before last season. See his peers already recognized him as an up & coming player BEFORE LAST SEASON because in spite of his stats, which have led many astray in his early years & college days, they saw what he did on the field against them when more often than not, they left on the losing side after playing the 2019 Bills. He was well on his way to being the franchise after his 1st 2 seasons, but for the stat boys it makes a better story that he came out of nowhere because they weren't paying enough attention to Josh development, which was fairly evident after his 2nd season. His peers saw it, voting him the 87th best before his record breaking season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 He got voted top 10 player in the entire NFL. Sorry, I just see nothing here to get worked up about. For the love of god can we please stop being so sensitive as Bills fans. It’s embarrassing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 55 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said: Allen was 87th last year, shooting down all the people who say that Allen was a question mark before last season. See his peers already recognized him as an up & coming player BEFORE LAST SEASON because in spite of his stats, which have led many astray in his early years & college days, they saw what he did on the field against them when more often than not, they left on the losing side after playing the 2019 Bills. He was well on his way to being the franchise after his 1st 2 seasons, but for the stat boys it makes a better story that he came out of nowhere because they weren't paying enough attention to Josh development, which was fairly evident after his 2nd season. His peers saw it, voting him the 87th best before his record breaking season. OK so he did make the top 100 last season, wasn't aware. A jump from 87 to 10 is still pretty impressive. Considering this year Beasley and T White were ranked in the 90's I have a real hard time justifying Allen at 87 a year ago based on past performance I'm sure I'll get blasted here by all the Bills fans for saying this, but I had a real hard time after 2 seasons seeing him as being well on his way to being a franchise QB. The only reason you could make for that was the Bills had no one in the wings waiting so he was going to be given at least 2 more seasons to try and develop. So yes I guess he was well on his way to being the franchise as there wasn't anyone else, but was a low bar to clear. Fortunately for the team and the fans he's did and more than exceeded. I still recall in the last game of his 2nd season he ended with him taking huge loses on back to back plays completely taking them out of field goal range and attempting a stupid dangerous lateral attempt that fortunately someone batted out of bounds. Yes he showed improvement completing passes in his 2nd season, but still had alot of accuracy issues and until he stopped making those dumb plays, he'd have a hard time being a franchise QB. For the 2020 season he did learn and stopped with the dumb plays and improved much in the accuracy department. He worked hard at it and succeeded and it appears he worked very hard this off season again. But IMO to call him well on his way after season 2 was based mainly on hope and watching him play while wearing rose colored Bills glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: OK so he did make the top 100 last season, wasn't aware. A jump from 87 to 10 is still pretty impressive. Considering this year Beasley and T White were ranked in the 90's I have a real hard time justifying Allen at 87 a year ago based on past performance I'm sure I'll get blasted here by all the Bills fans for saying this, but I had a real hard time after 2 seasons seeing him as being well on his way to being a franchise QB. The only reason you could make for that was the Bills had no one in the wings waiting so he was going to be given at least 2 more seasons to try and develop. So yes I guess he was well on his way to being the franchise as there wasn't anyone else, but was a low bar to clear. Fortunately for the team and the fans he's did and more than exceeded. I still recall in the last game of his 2nd season he ended with him taking huge loses on back to back plays completely taking them out of field goal range and attempting a stupid dangerous lateral attempt that fortunately someone batted out of bounds. Yes he showed improvement completing passes in his 2nd season, but still had alot of accuracy issues and until he stopped making those dumb plays, he'd have a hard time being a franchise QB. For the 2020 season he did learn and stopped with the dumb plays and improved much in the accuracy department. He worked hard at it and succeeded and it appears he worked very hard this off season again. But IMO to call him well on his way after season 2 was based mainly on hope and watching him play while wearing rose colored Bills glasses. I totally disagree, as do all of his teammates on the 2019 Bills, as well as the people who played against him who voted him 87th after his 2nd season. In 2019 he proved to be a leader and a winner. Yes, he made some dumb plays playing hero ball too much because of a weak supporting cast, but if you couldn't see his development I'm glad you're not a Bills scout. There's a reason nobody was waiting in the wings: The Bills management & players who saw him every day loved him & could see development. Instead of dwelling on mistakes they saw the guy who took over games, sometimes all by himself. Go watch the Dallas Thanksgiving game in 2019 & tell me he didn't elevate his game on what to that point was his biggest stage, playing before the whole nation in one of the largest capacity stadiums in the league. Beane proved from the day he arrived that mediocre QB play wasn't going to cut it with him. He knew he had to upgrade from Tyrod on day 1 & I have no doubt that if he had even a modicum of vision through your pessimistic dark colored glasses, he would have hedged his bets on Josh. The fact that he didn't is more evidence that you are flat out wrong in your pre 2020 evaluation of Josh. Sorry, but I don't buy your premise since the Bills teammates, management & the rest of the NFL players disagee with you & the rest of the players who played against him weren't wearing Bills rose colored glasses. A lot of us saw it too. Beane & McDermott saw it & in the 2020-21 offseason they made sure that he was surrounded by talent that would bring out the best in him. It took them 3 years, but they got him a true #1 WR for the 1st time in 2020. I remember times in 2019 when I would watch teams with #1 WRs thinking if Josh had a guy like that the critics would get off his case. The biggest difference, besides the natural development that came with experience, was trading for Diggs, drafting Davis & filling the giant hole at RT with Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 6 hours ago, Rigotz said: Imagine being offended that our QB isn’t considered a top 10 player in the league and only a top 5 QB… after one good season. Patience. oh I don’t really care about this but thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 6 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Jackson was excellent the year before too and had also won the mvp. More importantly, Jackson’s 2019 season was statistically incredible — 113.3 rating, led the league in td passes, AND rushed for over 1200 yards. He had an AV (PFR’s NFL equivalent of WAR) of 25, which is the highest I’ve ever seen. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00.htm. Bear in mind that the Ravens regularly blew teams out that year. Yeah I get it. I don’t actually mean anything I said regarding this list. It’s fun to have guys this high though. Interesting stat there; I’ve not seen it before. Also interesting that Josh’s 20 beat Mahomes and Rodgers last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Big C said: Yeah I get it. I don’t actually mean anything I said regarding this list. It’s fun to have guys this high though. Interesting stat there; I’ve not seen it before. Also interesting that Josh’s 20 beat Mahomes and Rodgers last year. Yep, Josh A was tied for the league lead with Aaron Donald last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 TJ Watt or whatever his name is, is the one who kind of bothers me.... well, bothers me as much as I can be bothered by such lists. Last season in a playoff game where their defense allowed 48 points to the Browns, Watt contributed 2 tackles, 1 assisted tackle, 1 tackle for a loss, and 1 pass deflection. Seems like a pass rushing/sack 1-trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 So the runner-up voting for MVP last year is it number 10… Seems legit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 good video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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