Two areas in downtown were strongly considered for new stadium

[chris heff]

27 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Are you suggesting the Bills would have plenty of land for RV parking and tailgating downtown?   Lay it out. Because I think that is a pipe dream. 

They don’t want any of that, if you own hotels why would you want RV park?

[The Dean]

8 minutes ago, chris heff said:

They don’t want any of that, if you own hotels why would you want RV park?

 

 

Not only that, but where would you put all that land? I think you'd, at some point, have to buy out current businesses to get it done. For 8-10 Sundays a year, how does that  help the downtown economy?  Do other  downtown stadiums have huge RV lots?  I'm serious here, because I do not know.

Edited August 28, 2021 by The Dean

[Ralonzo]

Don't take away my oats

 

[chris heff]

1 minute ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Not only that, but where would you put all that land? I think you'd, at some point, have to buy out current businesses to get it done. For 8-10 Sundays a year, HOW does that  help the downtown economy?  Do other  downtown stadiums have huge RV lots?  I'm serious here, because I do not know.

I’m not sure your getting this, RV parking lots and tailgating bring in zero revenue to the Bills or the county, why would they want them? Don’t the Pegulas own two hotels downtown? They want you staying on a hotel and eating and drinking in the stadium.

[The Dean]

12 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’m not sure your getting this, RV parking lots and tailgating bring in zero revenue to the Bills or the county, why would they want them? Don’t the Pegulas own two hotels downtown? They want you staying on a hotel and eating and drinking in the stadium.

 

 

I get this just fine. I have no interest in a downtown stadium for many reasons. My initial response was to Solomon's comment "Bills would have plenty of land to have the RV parking and flat asphalt for tailgating."  I'm just trying to figure out how he believes that. Clearly (IMO) there is no economic incentive for it, except perhaps for the Bills (or whoever owns the lots). But it doesn't seem like a likely outcome to me.  But I'm open to a dialogue to those who think it can be accomplished. 

BTW, if they own the land, parking lots actually bring revenue to whoever owns them. Bills/City/whomever. 

[cba fan]

6 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

First of all, Lucas Oil Stadium is NOT A DOME!  It has a retractable roof, that is completely un-dome like. A DOME is a shape, it just doesn't mean "a roof",

lol.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/domed stadium

https://definition.org/define/domed stadium/

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dome

https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/en-en/domed+stadium/

https://www.encyclo.co.uk/meaning-of-domed_stadium

https://webster-dictionary.org/definition/domed stadium

 

domed stadium meaning was changed many decades ago to mean any stadium with a roof.

Edited August 28, 2021 by cba fan

[The Dean]

17 minutes ago, cba fan said:

lol.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/domed stadium

https://definition.org/define/domed stadium/

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dome

https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/en-en/domed+stadium/

https://www.encyclo.co.uk/meaning-of-domed_stadium

https://webster-dictionary.org/definition/domed stadium

 

domed stadium meaning was changed many decades ago to mean any stadium with a roof.

 

 

For people with no sense of shape. 

 

I hear people in Atlanta call all soda pop "coke". That doesn't' mean it isn't stupid.

 

"Enclosed" is a far better term. Then again I get pissed when people refer to any place in New York outside of the NYC metro as "Upstate New York".  Just looking for a bit more specificity!

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by The Dean

[SoCal Deek]

7 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

For people with no sense of shape. 

 

I hear people in Atlanta call all soda pop "coke". That doesn't' mean it isn't stupid.

 

"Enclosed" is a far better term. Then again I get pissed when people refer to any place in New York outside of the NYC metro as "Upstate New York".  Just looking for a bit more specificity!

 

 

For the record:

 

Out here in California we also say Coke for all forms of soda 

 

And I agree, I’ve always said Buffalo is in Western NY not Upstate NY based solely on the geometry of the State itself

 

[SirAndrew]

16 hours ago, chris heff said:

That makes sense from the standpoint of fans. It would be the opposite for the county and Bills owners, they receive no revenue from tailgating. In Atlanta they priced food and drinks reasonably to get people in the building. Erie county and the Pegulas would have to factor that into any decision.

Yeah, I don’t know why the county or state would be willing to contribute much of anything to an OP stadium. I’d draw a hard line in negotiations that I want a downtown stadium if I represented either side. I respect and understand the reasons people want an OP stadium. I also believe that WNY’s fear of people not accepting change is something that holds the area back. 

[SoCal Deek]

19 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 You have a good imagination.  Odds are more likely it would just be another downtown stadium,  the majority of them are largely forgetful and grossly under utilized.   Buffalo is NOT a tourist destination.

 

Architects I have meet always have grandiose plans and dreams.

 

Be thankful/grateful we MIGHT get a new stadium in OP.

So if I have you right you want to hire an architect that’ll prepare mundane plans with no creativity or inspiration?. I’ll need to write that down. I’ve been doing this all wrong for the past FORTY YEARS. 😉

[Supe]

21 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

 Think about it....tailgating was not a 'thing' at the Rockpile.  That only arose when they moved to Orchard Park (I'm old!). 
 

I’m old enough to remember charcoal grills inside the Rockpile. 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Yeah, I don’t know why the county or state would be willing to contribute much of anything to an OP stadium. I’d draw a hard line in negotiations that I want a downtown stadium if I represented either side. I respect and understand the reasons people want an OP stadium. I also believe that WNY’s fear of people not accepting change is something that holds the area back. 

NYS has no reason to put it downtown 

 

The cost is going to be way more and there is no economic impact to the city as shown by dozens of studies 

 

Our Local politicians in Western New York absolutely have a huge reason to keep them here.. their jobs...  And we already have the land in orchard Park 

 

That's the easiest and most simple answer at the end of the day

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Buffalo716

[SirAndrew]

44 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

NYS has no reason to put it downtown 

 

The cost is going to be way more and there is no economic impact to the city as shown by dozens of studies 

 

Our Local politicians in Western New York absolutely have a huge reason to keep them here.. their jobs...  And we already have the land in orchard Park 

 

That's the easiest and most simple answer at the end of the day

 

 

I’ll admit to not being the most well versed on this, so I do appreciate any insight. I just don’t understand how bringing people into downtown bars and restaurants doesn’t have an economic greater than thousands of people drinking in parking lots. Thousands of people go to games in OP without spending a dime outside of the ticket cost. It’s not that I don’t believe economic experts, but often times studies prove whatever the person paying for it wants it to prove. 

[Buffalo716]

22 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I’ll admit to not being the most well versed on this, so I do appreciate any insight. I just don’t understand how bringing people into downtown bars and restaurants doesn’t have an economic greater than thousands of people drinking in parking lots. Thousands of people go to games in OP without spending a dime outside of the ticket cost. It’s not that I don’t believe economic experts, but often times studies prove whatever the person paying for it wants it to prove. 

This isn't Something new... This is something that goes back generations and generations 

 

And there's alot at play 

 

First, a stadium downtown won't bring all those tailgaters to the bars and restaurants... That is part of the Buffalo culture and history 

 

We know how to throw parties and cook for friends and family better than most.. most will not go downtown and spend 10 dollars a beer when you can get a 12 pack for the cost.. and make awesome food with friends and family 

 

It will not turn into a downtown bar hopping scene , because we honestly party smarter than that ... Of course there will always be a contingent willing ... Then you have the thousands of families with kids...

 

But I'd be willing to bet it doesn't turn into a huge scene when they charge 10 bucks a drink at downtown bars and you can get a 12 pack for that... Most Buffalonians would eat and drink at home and then arrive before the game 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Boatdrinks]

Just as well, I suppose. It looks like downtown renaissance may be turning into a decades long decline after this fall...

[SirAndrew]

36 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This isn't Something new... This is something that goes back generations and generations 

 

And there's alot at play 

 

First, a stadium downtown won't bring all those tailgaters to the bars and restaurants... That is part of the Buffalo culture and history 

 

We know how to throw parties and cook for friends and family better than most.. most will not go downtown and spend 10 dollars a beer when you can get a 12 pack for the cost.. and make awesome food with friends and family 

 

It will not turn into a downtown bar hopping scene , because we honestly party smarter than that ... Of course there will always be a contingent willing ... Then you have the thousands of families with kids...

 

But I'd be willing to bet it doesn't turn into a huge scene when they charge 10 bucks a drink at downtown bars and you can get a 12 pack for that... Most Buffalonians would eat and drink at home and then arrive before the game 

 

 

You’re spot on with the culture of Buffalo stuff. I’d still push for a city stadium if I were leadership, but it really comes down to the cost Pegula is willing to cover. If a city stadium is too cost prohibitive, it’s not going to happen. The Pegula’s and the NFL couldn’t care less about how much Buffalonians love tailgating. Buffalo could never support costly PSL’s and extra expenses, but I believe there’s an untapped market that doesn’t attend games in OP. Those are the type of people who wouldn’t mind spending some time downtown prior to a game. Indoor stadiums along with all the costs of a new stadium can attract a different crowd. 
 

Buffalo traditions remain strong, but the area is changing, much as the rest of the world. It’s no longer exclusively hard drinking, blue collar guys. That legacy remains in the parking lots of OP every Sunday, and it’s great, but I think there’s a more diverse Bills fan base than we realize.   I’ll actually be curious how many people get priced out of a new stadium in OP. I’m good with a new stadium in OP, and the continuation of Buffalo traditions will be great, but I can see why some people believe so strongly in a downtown stadium. 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

You’re spot on with the culture of Buffalo stuff. I’d still push for a city stadium if I were leadership, but it really comes down to the cost Pegula is willing to cover. If a city stadium is too cost prohibitive, it’s not going to happen. The Pegula’s and the NFL couldn’t care less about how much Buffalonians love tailgating. Buffalo could never support costly PSL’s and extra expenses, but I believe there’s an untapped market that doesn’t attend games in OP. Those are the type of people who wouldn’t mind spending some time downtown prior to a game. Indoor stadiums along with all the costs of a new stadium can attract a different crowd. 
 

Buffalo traditions remain strong, but the area is changing, much as the rest of the world. It’s no longer exclusively hard drinking, blue collar guys. That legacy remains in the parking lots of OP every Sunday, and it’s great, but I think there’s a more diverse Bills fan base than we realize.   I’ll actually be curious how many people get priced out of a new stadium in OP. I’m good with a new stadium in OP, and the continuation of Buffalo traditions will be great, but I can see why some people believe so strongly in a downtown stadium. 

The fan base is diverse of course 

 

The demographics of the city and suburbs has remained fairly stable... The closer you live to the actual City the more Blue collar 

 

Further you go into the suburbs the more white collar  

 

It doesn't change the fact that a stadium downtown is astronomically more expensive than in OP 

 

That untapped market you're talking about isn't a big enough market for terry to push out hardcore Bills fans

 

And Terry doesn't want to pay for the majority of the stadium.. so it's going where it's most cost effective .. and that's op

Edited August 28, 2021 by Buffalo716

[mjd1001]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:40 PM, billsfanmiamioh said:

Why? So it can be like Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Nashville, Etc? Been to lots of downtown stadiums and they’re fun for a day but there are very few places (if any) like OP for a game day experience. People I’ve brought with me that have only known “downtown” stadiums are always blown away and jealous we get to do it 8 (or 9) times per year. 

I really don't get this argument, about the lack of tailgating or the gameday experience. its not like there couldn't be ANY parking.  Lets say a downtown stadium had 60% less parking lot areas.  That is still a LOT of parking.  Would you be able to tailgate in one lot..then walk 1/3 of the way around the stadium and tailgate with friends in a different lot?  and then walk another 1/3 around the stadium and tailgate with even different friends in ANOTHER 3rd huge lot?  No.  But if the new Downtown stadium had 2 or 3 major parking lots instead of 5 or 6 like in Orchard park....how does that make the 'tailgating' experience for any individual group worse?

 

I haven't been to a game in years at the stadium, so I'm asking as an honest question.....if a downtown stadium was built and had less than half the parking but DID still have 1 or 2 large parking lots...how would that make tailgating worse?  I just want to know from people who don't like the downtown idea.

Edited August 28, 2021 by mjd1001

[SirAndrew]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The fan base is diverse of course 

 

The demographics of the city and suburbs has remained fairly stable... The closer you live to the actual City the more Blue collar 

 

Further you go into the suburbs the more white collar  

 

It doesn't change the fact that a stadium downtown is astronomically more expensive than in OP 

 

That untapped market you're talking about isn't a big enough market for terry to push out hardcore Bills fans

 

And Terry doesn't want to pay for the majority of the stadium.. so it's going where it's most cost effective .. and that's op

I agree, downtown isn’t happening because of the cost. The only thing I feel slightly different about is “pushing out hardcore fans”. This another issue that I don’t think is remotely on the Pegula’s radar. The new stadium will be full on gameday, and revenue will be up. That’s all anyone is concerned about. I think some are in for a surprise with the new stadium regardless of location. Some people are still going to be priced out. People are going to be priced out whether it be in OP or downtown imo. 

[mjd1001]

The more I think about this, the more I am OK with not having it in downtown.  When I think of other large football stadiums across the NFL, the majority are not in downtown areas.  But with that said, if you are going to do it in Orchard Park, make sure you do it right.  

 

When you look at some of the other 'non-downtown' stadiums in the league, what are features they have that make them special?  Is there anything different, or even the same you can do with a new Stadium in Orchard Park that will make it better than just a 'nice new stadium?"

 

-The Fan Atrium in Greenbay (a much larger and better indoor version of the HSBC Atrium

-Patriot place, the mini shopping mall/entertainment district built right beside Gillette Stadium in Foxboro

-Could you move the Buffalo Sports hall of fame to the new stadium?  Would you want to do that?

-something like the 72 club in Miami....outdoor seating (not luxury boxes) but luxury box amenities like reclining seats, video screens for each seat..etc.?

 

Anyone have any other ideas?

 

I'd personally be more interested in things to do just OUTSIDE the stadium walls.  Maybe have large public gathering areas inside the gates but outside the stadium walls where local bands can play before the game, or a mini version of the Superbowl fan experience can be had before the games in a public square type area.  

 

I'm not good at this type of thing, but if the stadium will be built in Orchard Park, what are some specific, but practical ideas anyone has they would like to see there?