Training Camp practice and Media Sessions 8/5

[Warcodered]

50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Actually one of the things that struck me is that he mentioned Davis dropping a TD pass that he should have had: "Davis did miss one target in the end zone, as Allen feathered a throw over cornerback Levi Wallace and hit Davis in the hands before it dropped to the ground."

 

Somehow news of a dropped TD by Davis doesn't seem to heat the tar and break out the pitchforks in many of us (me included!) the way news of a Knox drop does.

That's why I want to see how he does in the preseason games, he's known for his issues with drops so it wouldn't surprise me if people get over focused on when it happens despite it being something that should still happen to an extent just like for everyone else.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, BuffaninSarasota said:

 

we obviously have a difference of opinion - how then does Knox make the actual knuckle-headed play during an actual game? do NFL games serve as another example of a lack of competition? c'mon now

 

you originally cited a lack of competition at the TE position - now you're making a blanket statement about sports psychology/productive stress and one's "frame of mind" - ??

 

Agreed, competition is a great thing across multiple fields. I just think Knox is wired a bit differently and has a unique fault which crops up occasionally. I think this is HIS issue and not due to a competitive factor. Just my opinion. None of us has access to his particular headspace.

 

 

Look at it this way..........when the play becomes uncompetitive.....an easy grab....Knox level of performance drops.

 

He has made tremendous,  tightly contested grabs.   He excels after the catch when challenged.     I assume you saw the catch in Saturday's practice.........the defenders had no chance.......but he had to leap and fully extend for the TD.........he was challenged........there was no time to think about mechanics or how bad it will look if he doesn't catch that ball.

 

I don't see anything to indicate that his problems are broad/chronic/random...........it's a pretty specific,  isolated issue and the common denominator is being unchallenged.

 

When he is running wide open toward an uncontested throw........I believe he has shown that he needs to get himself in the same frame of mind as a contested catch situation.  

 

IMO,  the way to be there is to be thinking......"this is me competing against these guys fighting for my snaps".

 

A guy like Tom Brady can find a slight in anything and use it.........but for Knox it might be harder to suspend disbelief and think that he's in danger of losing a roster spot when you are as superior athletically as Knox is against his feeble competition at TE in Buffalo.    Short, slow, physically compromised.........these TE's are not in Knox class physically

 

He's talented.......if he gets to the next level,  that could become...."this is me competing against Travis Kelce or Gronk" but for now he needs to fix his mindset when unchallenged.........because with Josh Allen at QB and these WR's he is going to be left open A LOT.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Davis doesn't have a history of dropping passes.  He was solid in college, and he was solid as soon as he hit the Bills.  For him, a drop is just something that happens. That's why it's reported differently. 

 

He dropped a TD pass that hit his hands in the Ravens game 🤷‍♂️ . 

Obviously, he doesn't have the same "level of concern" as a guy who dropped 20% of his passes his rookie year.  But the fact is, in addition to that dropped TD pass in the playoffs, Davis is scored with 3 other drops last season (4.8%).  Knox was scored with 4 drops, on fewer targets (9.1%) but statistically, I don't have a good sense for whether 3 out of 62 vs 4 out of 44 are that different as numbers.

 

IMHO the real issue with Knox is running good routes and being physical in the right way - getting off the line/getting separation as a route runner

[billybrew1]

31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sounds to me like we should just go 5 wide and cut all of the TE’s. None of them are “good” blockers.  None are better than our 7th WR at running routes and catching the ball.   I was hoping that we’d add a competent TE to start and settle knox in as #2, but I’m starting to feel like we really failed at addressing the TE position.  Hollister has some work to do in order to change my mind on the situation.  If knox and hollister were good blockers and could have a positive impact on our run game, this would be a different story, but both have been liabilities as run blockers to this point in their careers.  

Wow! Viscous take But probably accurate. All our TEs are better blockers than Scott Chandler because Lee Smith was there to show them that it is possible to execute a block on so and so pass rusher and I think that helped a lot but at the same time they really can't do it like Lee. It was smart to get that seventh rounder from Atlanta as I thought he was untradeable and we reduced our cap some through the trade but what are we going to do now? Can Gilliam block? What about putting Brown in there? That'd be cool to see but a guy like Watt might run right passed him.  Knox is a tough guy and has the athleticism but is not that good of a blocker..... It is such a hard job to block a pass rushing specialist at 250#....Just crazy hard to stop them with space. When they line up wide and go either way, it's crazy tough. I think that is maybe the toughest job in the NFL...Those pass rushers are fierce! IDK? I couldn't block anybody.... I am a Lee Smith fan and was hoping he could coach up others to do it....Maybe that is something we need to get better at to hit the next level? Daryl Williams impressed the ***** out of me blocking Watt last year. Very strong and very athletic. He should be able to run block just fine if he can do that. I predict the Bills run a lot better this year and I predict the TEs are better (just not great).

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Look at it this way..........when the play becomes uncompetitive.....an easy grab....Knox level of performance drops.

 

He has made tremendous,  tightly contested grabs.   He excels after the catch when challenged.     I assume you saw the catch in Saturday's practice.........the defenders had no chance.......but he had to leap and fully extend for the TD.........he was challenged........there was no time to think about mechanics or how bad it will look if he doesn't catch that ball.

 

I don't see anything to indicate that his problems are broad/chronic/random...........it's a pretty specific,  isolated issue and the common denominator is being unchallenged.

 

When he is running wide open toward an uncontested throw........I believe he has shown that he needs to get himself in the same frame of mind as a contested catch situation.  

 

IMO,  the way to be there is to be thinking......"this is me competing against these guys fighting for my snaps".

 

A guy like Tom Brady can find a slight in anything and use it.........but for Knox it might be harder to suspend disbelief and think that he's in danger of losing a roster spot when you are as superior athletically as Knox is against his feeble competition at TE in Buffalo.    Short, slow, physically compromised.........these TE's are not in Knox class physically

 

He's talented.......if he gets to the next level,  that could become...."this is me competing against Travis Kelce or Gronk" but for now he needs to fix his mindset when unchallenged.........because with Josh Allen at QB and these WR's he is going to be left open A LOT.

 

 

I don't think knox's drops or impressive catches are any different whether it's practice that's less competitive or a regular season game. I mean we have seen him make great plays and drops during both. I agree he lays the hammer sometimes after the catch. That's great about him.

 

Imo it's just lack of concentration at times along with thinking a little too far ahead about the extra yards and knocking the ***** out of opposing players. That's just me though, I think he's the same during practice as he is actual game imo

[Beerball]

11 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Both Powell and Stevenson have had ball security issues - so it is understandable that the job is McKenzie's to lose.

McKenzie had 10 fumbles in 2018/9. Hopefully those issues are behind him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Beerball said:

McKenzie had 10 fumbles in 2018/9. Hopefully those issues are behind him.

 

I think you're misreading something somewhere (or else, just incorrect)

 

He had 6 fumbles his rookie year 2017.

He had 2 fumbles his 2nd season, 2018 - but this is confusing because he was on 2 teams, so on some sites it's written twice - once under "2TM" and once under "BUF".  But it's two, not four.

 

He had no fumbles in 2019 or 2020

 

Therefore either he had 2 fumbles in 2018/2019 or he had 8 fumbles in 2017/2018

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I don't think knox's drops or impressive catches are any different whether it's practice that's less competitive or a regular season game. I mean we have seen him make great plays and drops during both. I agree he lays the hammer sometimes after the catch. That's great about him.

 

Imo it's just lack of concentration at times along with thinking a little too far ahead about the extra yards and knocking the ***** out of opposing players. That's just me though, I think he's the same during practice as he is actual game imo

 

 

These practices are very competitive.......especially now with pads on........nobody is letting Knox have anything for lack of trying.

 

I don't think his problem is gonna' be correctable by catching ping pong balls.......he might want to try hypnosis or something else before it turns into outright "yips".

 

 

[Beerball]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think you're misreading something somewhere (or else, just incorrect)

 

He had 6 fumbles his rookie year 2017.

He had 2 fumbles his 2nd season, 2018 - but this is confusing because he was on 2 teams, so on some sites it's written twice - once under "2TM" and once under "BUF".  But it's two, not four.

 

He had no fumbles in 2019 or 2020

 

Therefore either he had 2 fumbles in 2018/2019 or he had 8 fumbles in 2017/2018

Coming from here.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeIs00.htm

 

 

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

These practices are very competitive.......especially now with pads on........nobody is letting Knox have anything for lack of trying.

 

I don't think his problem is gonna' be correctable by catching ping pong balls.......he might want to try hypnosis or something else before it turns into outright "yips".

 

 

 Oh yeah, for sure practices are competitive, as they should be. That's why I say his play is no different either way. It's all competitive. I just hope for less drops. I don't know what the deal is with the ping pong balls either myself lol

Edited August 6, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Beerball said:

Coming from here.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeIs00.htm

 

Read it more carefully, you appear to be are reading it incorrectly and mixing up the years.  See post above.

 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, Beerball said:

Coming from here.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeIs00.htm

 

 

 

 

He has 8 career fumbles from what I read from your link.

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I have to wonder how safe Jaquan Johnson's spot on the roster is? I remember the word on him coming out of the draft being how athletic he was, but then being a bit of a disappointment in his first TC, and preseason. He seems to have been pretty much under the radar since then. It seems as though Hamlin, Thompson, and Thomas have all made plays here, and there this summer. And, it wouldn't be inaccurate to think of Siran Neal as something of a CB/S hybrid player-- he was, after all, drafted as a safety. 

 

Could Jaquan Johnson be a surprise cut?

I am very curious to see how he does this camp and preseason.

 

This is his 3rd season and as a Safety, he needs to step up.

 

That being said, he's been very good on special teams. Just like Daryl Johnson is.

[Beerball]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Read it more carefully, you appear to be are reading it incorrectly and mixing up the years.  See post above.

 

Read it more carefully, you appear to be are reading it incorrectly and mixing up the years.  See post above.

 

gotcha

 

He had 8 fumbles in 2018/9. Hopefully those issues are behind him.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Beerball

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Sounds to me like we should just go 5 wide and cut all of the TE’s. None of them are “good” blockers.  None are better than our 7th WR at running routes and catching the ball.   I was hoping that we’d add a competent TE to start and settle knox in as #2, but I’m starting to feel like we really failed at addressing the TE position.  Hollister has some work to do in order to change my mind on the situation.  If knox and hollister were good blockers and could have a positive impact on our run game, this would be a different story, but both have been liabilities as run blockers to this point in their careers.  

 

There is probably a reason why (1,1) was our most common set least year.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Sal Capaccio article:

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/kumerow-continues-to-stay-hot-at-bills-camp?utm_campaign=sharebutton&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=WGRAM

 

Sounds like there's some "steel sharpens steel" going on with Josh Allen getting picked and batted:

Quote

Linebacker Tremaine Edmunds continued to make plays by using his length. It certainly helped him on a couple of passes. He knocked one away, and also had an interception on a pass from Allen that looked like the Bills quarterback forced into traffic.

 

Cornerback Dane Jackson, who had been too up-and-down over the first week for my liking, had his best day overall. He was much more consistent, including excellent coverage on Stefon Diggs in 1-on-1s that caused an incompletion.

Hopefully Daboll and Dorsey prune back his "Arm Arrogance" just a little scootch

 

Perspective: sounds as though Knox is not alone in the "Drop" business

Quote

Tight end Dawson Knox, who had been very consistent catching the ball through the first week, had a really tough drop on a would-be touchdown towards the end of practice. It was a nice pass from Trubisky, right where it needed to be to allow Knox to catch it and keep running. But Knox didn’t make a play he clearly should have. (...)

 

Before that, Trubisky hooked up with rookie wide receiver Marquez Stevenson for a really nice pass and catch for good yardage. However, shortly after, on a very similar play, Stevenson dropped a ball that was right in his hands. It was another good throw by Trubisky.

 

On another play, quarterback Jake Fromm threaded a perfect needle between defenders to tight end Quintin Morris. Morris had it go off his hands and into the air, where rookie defensive back Tariq Thompson did a great job to grab it before it hit the ground for an interception.

 

The defense also had a drop, albeit a very tough ball to come down with, when quarterback Davis Webb’s pass was deflected by linebacker Joe Giles-Harris and rookie cornerback Damar Hamlin just missed making the play on the ball. It was a good effort. Giles-Harris did come up with a pick of his own against Webb a bit later.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

34 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

 Oh yeah, for sure practices are competitive, as they should be. That's why I say his play is no different either way. It's all competitive. I just hope for less drops. I don't know what the deal is with the ping pong balls either myself lol

Hand eye coordination exercise,

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I am very curious to see how he does this camp and preseason.

 

This is his 3rd season and as a Safety, he needs to step up.

 

That being said, he's been very good on special teams. Just like Daryl Johnson is.

 

@GunnerBill pointed out that Jaquon Johnson has assumed a specific role on ST, "personal protector".  So he's not just an interchangeable part.

 

The Bills let Dean Marlowe walk in FA, and I really doubt they'd do that if they didn't have confidence Johnson was ready for the primary backup role.

 

8 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Tre White and Isaiah McKenzie are national treasures they crack me up everytime.

 

OMG OMG OMG this:

 

 

Apparently McKenzie is a notable trash-talker.  In an earlier interview, Hyde praised McKenzie's route running, and said "we just hate it when he catches one" (apparently he lets them know.  And know.  And know.)

 

[Patrick Duffy]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Apparently McKenzie is a notable trash-talker.  In an earlier interview, Hyde praised McKenzie's route running, and said "we just hate it when he catches one" (apparently he lets them know.  And know.  And know.)

Now that's an area of his game I think he has improved upon quite a bit is route running. McKenzie has become a very effective player. The work he has put in along with the way Daboll calls the right plays has really payed off.

[78thealltimegreat]

Seems the backs are doing well but relying on Dawson Knox is really going to have people running for the Pepto Bismol this fall