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Woman ducted tape to seat on American Airlines flight. Attacked flight attendants and tried to open the door.


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3 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

That's good to know. I was wondering why there wasn't some kind of safety lock-out mechanism to prevent unauthorized access. Apparently there's no need.

 

Actually, you don't want to deny access to opening the door.

If something happens and you need to evacuate, it is desirable that the door works no matter who operates it.

During normal operations, on takeoff and landing a flight attendant sits at a jumpseat next to the door he/she is responsible for. There are two operation to it. One is making sure it is closed with that big lever, and the other is arming the escape slide.

If something happens and someone opens it with the escape slide armed, which it always is

after starting taxi and until gate arrival, the slide is going to blow.

 

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5 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

No you can't.

It would take over 2000 pounds of strength to open one.

 

I always wondered about that, since interior pressure would be greater, I assumed it would aid in opening the door.

...but apparently it has to do with the plane fuselage changing shape. Which is even scarier.

 

 

 

 

Edited by unbillievable
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5 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

I added to the DB Cooper thing. That airplane was unpressurized, per his insistence.

To answer your question, once the cabin is depressurized, the doors will open, if other issues are resolved, which I won't go into.

Two examples.

An Airbus took off from Miami, had some sort of engine problem resulting in smoke.

On landing, because certain responses to the emergency caused certain systems to be unpowered, the airplane remained pressurized.

After shutting down the remaining engine at the gate, the airplane started depressurizing, reaching a point where a strong male flight attendant was able to open a door. He did so thinking that the still existing smoke was an issue. 

Eventually pumped up on adrenaline, he got a door open. the resulting force blew him out of the airplane and he fell 18' do his death.

 

Another story. Muslims do the Hajj thing.

An L-1011 carrying a full load to the Hajj had a full flight of pax that don't do air travel.

A few of them brought sterno type things and started cooking in the cabin. A fire ensued.

The airplane landed still pressurized and folks were unable to open the doors.

Nobody figure it out and everyone died in the fire.

So one CAN open the door without being a 2000 pound strongman. Just depressurize the cabin first... Or slowly start equalizing the pressure to free the mechanism/latch. Probably why they didn't want her working on that door.  LoL... Never say it can't be done. 😉

 

 

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9 hours ago, dpberr said:

I don't have a problem with restraining someone who's tried opening an airplane door.  I do have a problem with the tape over the mouth though.  If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail.  

If someone does that on a plane I'm on duct tape is going to be the least of their problems. I'll take my chances with a jury of my peers.

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9 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

I always wondered about that, since interior pressure would be greater, I assumed it would aid in opening the door.

...but apparently it has to do with the plane fuselage changing shape. Which is even scarier.

 

 

 

 

 

Not to worry. It isn't scary, they are cleverly designed.

Cabin doors, unlike cargo doors are "plug" type doors.

Think of you sink or tub plugs. 

To remove, they must be pulled in first.

Ultimately they swing out, but the first movement must be in, so the cabin pressure prevents this. Of course they are latched as well, by the big handle.

Because they are so heavy, is a hydraulic assist that makes it easier.

 

Got to thinking about it and did the math.

At cruise it would take about 25,000 pounds to open the door.

Aint happenin'.

Less closer to the ground, but very significant.

 

Edited by sherpa
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7 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

So one CAN open the door without being a 2000 pound strongman. Just depressurize the cabin first... Or slowly start equalizing the pressure to free the mechanism/latch. Probably why they didn't want her working on that door.  LoL... Never say it can't be done. 😉

 

 

 

How are you going to depressurize the cabin?

 

No chance she was going to get the door opened.

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53 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

How are you going to depressurize the cabin?

 

No chance she was going to get the door opened.

Then what are we worried about with regards to the door?  

 

Maybe she calms down without all the needless duct tape. Go up to the door and say: "SEE crazy lady, it's impossible, the pressure is too great on the inside."  ...And begin to fiddle with the door seal (which of course is against the law for a reason... 😏) 😆

 

Let's call it like it is. She was subdued for her own safety and the immediate safety of others,  NOT the safety of the plane in flight.  She won't crash the plane,  we just don't want a crazy lady running around the cabin so we duct taped her down.

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46 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Then what are we worried about with regards to the door?  

 

Maybe she calms down without all the needless duct tape. Go up to the door and say: "SEE crazy lady, it's impossible, the pressure is too great on the inside."  ...And begin to fiddle with the door seal (which of course is against the law for a reason... 😏) 😆

 

Let's call it like it is. She was subdued for her own safety and the immediate safety of others,  NOT the safety of the plane in flight.  She won't crash the plane,  we just don't want a crazy lady running around the cabin so we duct taped her down.

 

I don't think you get this, just as you didn't get the stinky passenger thing or the cancellation because a group of kids refused to wear masks, insulted flight attendants and refused to cease playing profane music when requested.

 

This woman attacked a flight attendant and was messing with the door.

You don't try to operate a door, whether the primary entry doors, over wing hatches or the cockpit just as you don't mess with fire extinguishers, emergency O2 masks stowed overhead, or various things in the restrooms that you don't need.

If you try to damage something you are going to be restrained, and for good reason.

 

These people are not stupid and they train for these events at every recurrent training cycle as well as get constant updates on these kinds of things all the time. You may have an "opinion," and that's your business. They kind of know what they're doing and having anyone out of control on an aircraft is going to get responded to and hopefully before the passengers respond because that's how things get out of control.

Let professional mental health people on the ground judge her mental state later.

While she was not going to able to open a door inflight, she could certainly damage it or the emergency slide inside.

You don't walk into a restaurant or movie theater and start messing around with things that don't concern you an are not your property, and you certainly are not going to be permitted to do that on an airliner. 

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18 hours ago, dpberr said:

I don't have a problem with restraining someone who's tried opening an airplane door.  I do have a problem with the tape over the mouth though.  If the crew gets reprimanded for anything in this particular situation, it's going to be that detail.  

 

I think people who try to open doors mid-flight, charge the cockpit, and other let's crash the plane chicanery should face a mandatory jail sentence, mental health episode or not.  


If she is screaming and yelling I have no issue with that either.

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Here is a direct quote from the union website.

Again, not from me.

 

"I happen to know the FO on this flight very very well 🙄

There is a lot more to the story that isn't being reported. This case in particular was much more a mental health situation than it was a simple ornery passenger from our Group Nine Flying Club. The FAs (#1 in particular) did an outstanding job
."

 

Just to explain how this stuff happens, after 9-11, law enforcement the FAA and industry reps got together to form policy/procedures to respond to various levels of passenger misconduct. As one climbs the bad behavior ladder, based on very specific behavior, stronger responses can occur. They don't have to, but they can.

Very specific training is conducted on this issue.

This lunatic lady did at least two things I'm aware of that cause her to be in the top category.

If this woman wasn't restrained, it is quite likely something worse could have occurred.

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11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

The psychosis we see that seems more rampant nowadays,  can we blame the weed and genetic predisposition?

 

😆

 

No. We can blame people who put their "personal freedom" ("maskholes" and the like) over the well-being of society as a whole, as well as people who think that watching a couple of YouTube videos constitutes "doing your own research."

 

 

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24 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

No. We can blame people who put their "personal freedom" ("maskholes" and the like) over the well-being of society as a whole, as well as people who think that watching a couple of YouTube videos constitutes "doing your own research."

 

 

I agree on second part.  But as we start legalizing weed... We will find out for sure.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201601/does-marijuana-cause-psychosis

 

Who knows if this even applies to her.  YET, IMO..  It's being pushed under the rug.

 

Not to go off topic... Or assume she was a cannabis user... But the question to be asked, is what's going on with the state of mental health today?

 

"Putting all of this together, the authors concluded that “there is a strong body of epidemiologic evidence to support the view that regular or heavy cannabis use increases the risk of developing psychotic disorders….”

While it seems to be more and more difficult to ignore these data, this increased risk needs to be understood in context. If the overall rate of schizophrenia in the population is about 1%, then these data suggest that the risk of psychosis, at least among more casual users, is still fairly low, like 1.5%. Given the potential of millions of new cannabis users, however, these numbers translate into many thousands of individuals with what can be quite disabling psychotic symptoms at a time when mental health and substance abuse treatment centers are already stretched extremely thin."

 

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13 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

So one CAN open the door without being a 2000 pound strongman. Just depressurize the cabin first... Or slowly start equalizing the pressure to free the mechanism/latch. Probably why they didn't want her working on that door.  LoL... Never say it can't be done. 😉

 

 

 

What about lock gates on waterways? Can you expound on the possibilities for that? 

 

Asking for a friend @BringBackFergy

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23 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

What about lock gates on waterways? Can you expound on the possibilities for that? 

 

Asking for a friend @BringBackFergy

 

It depends on whether they're in a cannabis-induced psychotic state. 😉

 

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