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1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said:

The thing that frustrates me about Knox is he has the ability to make these really wild off balanced circus catches....but then drops the ones where he's open and it hits his hands. 

 

I don't know how that gets fixed. Maybe McKenzie can ride on his back and whack him upside the head when the ball is almost there to make the catch more difficult. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

This is actually one of the best ideas I've heard.

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Video Clips where he's talking about it some here:     This might be the guy in question:       At least he's putting in effort, let's see if it shows resu

Hmm 🤔, shouldn’t that have been his top focus last off-season too? 

Heck, I'm OK with it even if this training has a "placebo effect" of him believing he can catch better and then that allows him to actually catch better.

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Guys I’ve said this before from watching the all 22 like many of you.  It’s basically what Hap suggested.  I don’t think he’s nervous, but maybe.  If he was that nervous, how does he make those acrobatic catches.

 

not my playing days, but my coaching days.  He’s doing exactly what good young athletes do.  They get too confident in their catching ability, so they want to help the team to win so badly, they start thinking how they can turn 8 yards into 40.  One of the things that makes Kelce and Kittle so damn good is they stay focused on securing the ball before they make a move.  They don’t even think about it.  I had to grill young men out of it, as it’s a hard sell.

 

he gets that done and he accepts the 8 yard gain vs. the 30 and maybe sometimes he gets to 30.  That’s it.  Watch the tape.  Look closely at the head whip and the dropped catch.

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On 6/3/2021 at 3:51 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So in the NE game in 2019, Beasley struggled with catching a low pass and deflected it upward for an INT and a pick 6.  After the game Daboll, who hadn't tact-ified himself yet, made a comment about "if the ball is a bit low we still have to catch it" or something to that effect that was clearly directed at Bease.

 

The next week there was video of Beasley catching small balls that a member of the Bills staff was bouncing off the wall for him - might have been a tennis or racketball or something a little smaller - squash ball?.

 

The point as I saw it was to help him train his eye and hone his eye-hand coordination to react quickly, not to simulate the weight shape and size of a football.

 

I would imaging that ping-pong balls are probably very challenging to catch as they're so light, they're probably very easy to deflect if your hands aren't cleanly in the right place. 

 

 

On 6/3/2021 at 3:25 PM, MJS said:

Hand-eye coordination is what he is training. Improving it does not require footballs. And it would absolutely help him.

I'm aware there are drills to improve hand-eye coordination with small objects.  But we have seen Dawson time and again make the difficult circus catch. Then miss the easy one? To make those tough catches you need hand -eye which Dawson already has. Could this whole argument be simply explained by a lack of focus. We've all seen NFL players with alligator arms. Taking their eyes off the target to either brace for impact or get a quick cheat on where they'll run? He simply needs to follow the ball in all the way. And worry about his angry run later. 

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https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/vic-carucci-dawson-knox-determined-to-be-that-weapon-bills-want-at-tight-end/article_d06f8270-c51f-11eb-998c-1bacfd579b18.html

 

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he blunt assessment, coming only days after the Buffalo Bills' crushing loss against the Kansas City Chiefs in January's AFC Championship Game, has reverberated through the offseason.

After watching Chiefs All-Everything tight end Travis Kelce have his way with Buffalo's secondary, General Manager Brandon Beane couldn't hide his envy when reflecting on the state of the position within his own team.

"It was never where the opposing defense was like, 'Man, we've got to stop their tight ends from going off,'" Beane said.

 

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The immediate reaction was that two seasons after drafting Dawson Knox with that vision in mind, the Bills were ready for an upgrade. Rampant speculation it would happen with a splashy free-agent signing proved unfounded; the Bills made a relatively modest addition in former Seattle Seahawk Jacob Hollister, Josh Allen's former teammate at the University of Wyoming. The same was true with the draft, during which they did not select a tight end.

 

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"I want to get to the point where I am that weapon for our team," Knox told reporters after an organized team activities practice last week. "Travis is the best in the league right now at what he does. ... It just comes from watching film and getting on the field and starting to feel out some of the stuff that he can see pretty quickly. It's really not just running your route and being in the right spot. It's kind of how well can you adjust on the fly? How well can you read coverages when the ball is snapped?

"Because defenses are so good at disguising coverages. Safeties are moving around, linebackers are showing blitz and then they'll drop out. So, it's just starting to be able to catch on to some of those things, which I felt like I was able to do more and more as the year went on last year. I'm kind of excited to keep building on it."

 

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He began the process earlier in the offseason by traveling from his offseason home in Nashville to spend time with Allen in Southern California. Their gathering coincided with the first phase of virtual meetings with Bills coaches, carrying the instruction from what they saw in those video sessions to the field, where Knox ran routes and caught passes from his quarterback.

 

"If there was a new play or a new route concept that (offensive coordinator Brian Daboll) was installing, we were able to take it straight to the field," Knox said. "(Allen) kind of worked through some of the points where he would tell me what he's looking for, like when to give him eyes on certain routes, just some real little details we were able to hammer down on some of the new stuff, which is nice."

 

Knox and Allen also hung out off the field, playing board games, notably Catan, and going to dinner.

 

"I have wheat, looking for sheep..."

 

Oh, and he and Hollister?  They're friends

 

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He doesn't sound the least bit fazed by the thought of the Bills adding a tight end. He and Hollister live near each other in Nashville, and have formed a friendship. The Bills also have Tommy Sweeney, another of their 2019 draft choices, and Nate Becker at the position.

 

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Dawson is a prototypical pass catching TE. His problem is that he loses concentration in high leverage scenarios where he whiffs on blocks and drops crucial underneath throws that extend drives. This season will either be his turnaround or the end of his Bills career. I really like Knox but this offense needs more from the TE position. 

 

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On 6/6/2021 at 3:33 PM, machine gun kelly said:

Guys I’ve said this before from watching the all 22 like many of you.  It’s basically what Hap suggested.  I don’t think he’s nervous, but maybe.  If he was that nervous, how does he make those acrobatic catches.

 

not my playing days, but my coaching days.  He’s doing exactly what good young athletes do.  They get too confident in their catching ability, so they want to help the team to win so badly, they start thinking how they can turn 8 yards into 40.  One of the things that makes Kelce and Kittle so damn good is they stay focused on securing the ball before they make a move.  They don’t even think about it.  I had to grill young men out of it, as it’s a hard sell.

 

he gets that done and he accepts the 8 yard gain vs. the 30 and maybe sometimes he gets to 30.  That’s it.  Watch the tape.  Look closely at the head whip and the dropped catch.

 

Do you think something that could help with that would be designing plays where the best way Knox could turn the play into a 30yd yac is if he attacks the ball as a way to use the defender's momentum against him?

 

Seems like what you're describing doesn't happen if he attacks the ball to make the catch. If you're sitting out there waiting for the ball, I could see your hips start turning early, leading to your head to turn a fraction of a second early.

 

I guess, is it it possible to attack the ball more even on a seam route, where he is bending his route a bit to give Allen a better throwing angle? No football relevant experience, but I played striker in soccer and we would bend runs all the time to create more space, give our teammates a wider passing angle and most importantly, allow us to be able to come back to the ball with suddenness...you wait for a ball in soccer instead of attacking it at the high point basically, your coach is gonna bench you pretty quick.

 

Should the coaches say we love that you're being aggressive, you need to make sure that starts with the catch as well...attack the ball knox...go catch it instead of letting the ball catch you. Hopefully that's what he's doing this summer. With a ping pong ball, you don't wait for it...you figure out where it's going to be and you catch the fing ball. You reach out and hit the ball into your palm and use that momentum to keep control of the ball while you close your hand around it...if you're letting the ball hit your palm and then try and catch, it's most likely bouncing off before your hand can register and close.

 

Hope that makes sense, my youngest is getting all four canine teeth and the last week and a half have been a trip, but gives me a chance to post on here at 4am!

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13 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Dawson is a prototypical pass catching TE. His problem is that he loses concentration in high leverage scenarios where he whiffs on blocks and drops crucial underneath throws that extend drives. This season will either be his turnaround or the end of his Bills career. I really like Knox but this offense needs more from the TE position. 

 

And there's your winning answer. 

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On 6/3/2021 at 3:21 PM, billsfan1959 said:

I tend to agree, OP. It really feels as if his issues with drops are more about momentary lapses in focus and concentration, and less about hand-eye coordination. However, at least he is trying to improve and, intuitively, one would think focus / concentration would be an integral part of the training. I really like Knox and I believe he has all the physical tools to be a really good TE. I hope this training (and whatever else he may be doing to improve his catching consistency) translates into an improvement on the field. He really has to show a marked improvement this year.

 

Improving the hand eye coordination and increased repetition makes the automatic parts of the catch more effective.

 

I assume the zone blocking part is still a work in progress.  Thats a tough thing to learn in all honesty.

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6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

There was no off-season last year you dolt 😣

Lol right, except there was off-season work performed, and there was lots of talk about Knox taking the big leap headed into year two.  As a fan, I definitely WANT to see Knox truly turn the corner in year three, but just skeptical it’s really going to happen for him.  He’s not the only player in the league trying to get better, and trying not to be a homer on this one.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/26/2020-into-focus-buffalo-bills-dawson-knox-josh-allen/amp/

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19 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Lol right, except there was off-season work performed, and there was lots of talk about Knox taking the big leap headed into year two.  As a fan, I definitely WANT to see Knox truly turn the corner in year three, but just skeptical it’s really going to happen for him.  He’s not the only player in the league trying to get better, and trying not to be a homer on this one.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/billswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/26/2020-into-focus-buffalo-bills-dawson-knox-josh-allen/amp/

 

My apologies for calling u a dolt. I meant it in a humorous way. It's something I call my friends when I'm joking around. Trust me, I got a warning for it as well by the mods. 😅

 

People underestimate how important training camp is especially for QBs and their receivers. Besides actual games, it's the best time to build a connection w/ each other. Allen's gunslinger style makes it mandatory for a receiver to know what to do and where to go when the play breaks down/extends. Stefon Diggs is an absolute master at this.

 

Going up against the combo of Hyde/Poyer, Milano, Tre White everyday in camp should help Knox sharpen his craft massively. To become the best you have to beat the best and having that group as teammates to go up against everyday is another huge tool for him. Catching in traffic was one Knox's bigger flaws IMO so battling against the tough, physical dudes on the Bills' D should toughen him up greatly. 

 

Last, but not least is competition. I think we all would agree that Knox is the best option at TE at the moment, but you never know who might sneak up on the depth chart to challenge him. Players come out of nowhere all the time in the NFL. Jacob Hollister who was one of Josh's main targets at Wyoming and IMO underutilized in Seattle has just as good of a chance as anyone else to ***** that #1 spot. In fact, he's probably my favorite dark horse this season.

 

The bottom line is if Dawson Knox wants to get paid then he has to step it up in year 3. There's no more excuses for him. If you can't put up #'s in an explosive offense like this then somebody else will have no problem taking your place. I feel like the TE position is wide open so it'll be pretty fun watching the competition battle it out this summer. 💯 👍 

 

Edit: Did y'all really just bleep the word S N A T C H ? You're the ones w/ the dirty minds, not me. 😒

Edited by ChronicAndKnuckles
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8 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

People underestimate how important training camp is especially for QBs and their receivers. Besides actual games, it's the best time to build a connection w/ each other. Allen's gunslinger style makes it mandatory for a receiver to know what to do and where to go when the play breaks down/extends. Stefon Diggs is an absolute master at this.

 

Going up against the combo of Hyde/Poyer, Milano, Tre White everyday in camp should help Knox sharpen his craft massively. To become the best you have to beat the best and having that group as teammates to go up against everyday is another huge tool for him. Catching in traffic was one Knox's bigger flaws IMO so battling against the tough, physical dudes on the Bills' D should toughen him up greatly. 

 

Last, but not least is competition. I think we all would agree that Knox is the best option at TE at the moment, but you never know who might sneak up on the depth chart to challenge him. Players come out of nowhere all the time in the NFL. Jacob Hollister who was one of Josh's main targets at Wyoming and IMO underutilized in Seattle has just as good of a chance as anyone else to ***** that #1 spot. In fact, he's probably my favorite dark horse this season.

 

The bottom line is if Dawson Knox wants to get paid then he has to step it up in year 3. There's no more excuses for him. If you can't put up #'s in an explosive offense like this then somebody else will have no problem taking your place. I feel like the TE position is wide open so it'll be pretty fun watching the competition battle it out this summer. 💯 👍 

 

I think the big difference with last year is the optimal choice of how to invest the time - we still had training camp albeit shortened, and players still got together and trained - is that a lot of gyms and training places were closed.  So Knox could catch balls from a Juggs machine in his parents backyard and work out at a friend’s gym or his old HS, but he couldn’t go work with the “Eye training” guy in Cali.  He could join the other WR for a few days in Fl, but he couldn’t go work with Josh at a local football field for weeks, they were all closed.

 

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My apologies for calling u a dolt. I meant it in a humorous way. It's something I call my friends when I'm joking around.

 

On the Internet, Nobody Knows You’re a Frog.  Nobody knows if you’re “croaking” or “joking”, either (well sometimes we do, but it’s tough, and tends to start fights).

 

8 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Edit: Did y'all really just bleep the word S N A T C H ? You're the ones w/ the dirty minds, not me. 😒

 

Haha the ways of the Word Filter are beyond mortal knowing.  Seriously, I don’t think anyone knows how that thing works, not even Scott or Nervous Guy.

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https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2021/06/10/buffalo-bills-dawson-knox-believes-can-be-playmaking-tight-end/7618090002/

 

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Knox wants to be a difference-making pass option

Ertz will turn 31 in November, so his best years are probably behind him, but make no mistake, those were very good years. Since joining the Eagles in 2013 as a second-round draft pick, he has 561 catches for 6,078 yards and 36 touchdowns, has been to three Pro Bowls, and won a Super Bowl in Philadelphia.

That’s the type of player Knox would like to become, someone who can be a reliable and difference-making option for quarterback Josh Allen in the passing game.

The 6-foot-4, 254-pound Knox has shown flashes of being that player, but they have too often been overshadowed by inconsistent play during his first two years with Buffalo.

 

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Only three teams had fewer receptions from their tight ends than the 42 the Bills got from Knox (24), Tyler Kroft (12), Lee Smith (4) and Reggie Gilliam (2).
 

Pro Football Focus had Knox graded as the 45th best tight end in the NFL. Now, one should take their grades with a grain of salt, but it’s hard to argue based on the numbers as Knox’s 24 receptions went for just 288 yards and three TDs in the 12 games he played (he missed time with COVID-19, a concussion and a calf injury). In three postseason games Knox caught 10 passes for 65 yards and two TDs. 
 

Obviously, it’s a silly comparison because Kelce is an all-world player, but in the AFC Championship Game alone, Kelce caught 13 passes for 118 yards and two TDs. Any type of improvement Knox can make in his third NFL season would help the Bills’ offense and take pressure off wideouts Diggs, Cole Beasley, Gabriel Davis and Emmanuel Sanders.

 

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Even once the Bills wrap up their mandatory mini-camp next week, Knox’s work will not stop because he will spend part of his vacation time attending what is being called Tight End University. It’s a multiple-day summit for tight ends that is being run by Kelce, George Kittle of the 49ers, and retired Greg Olsen right in Knox’s offseason hometown, Nashville.

Other players known to be attending include some of the best in the league such as Ertz, Darren Waller, T.J. Hockenson, Kyle Pitts, Mark Andrews, Evan Engram, Mike Gesicki, Robert Tonyan, Noah Fant, Cole Kmet, Jonnu Smith, Eric Ebron and David Njoku.

“Super excited,” Knox said of the invitation which he quickly accepted. “I know George pretty well and I’ve met Travis a couple times, and Greg, too. It will be fun to be at my old stomping grounds with all the guys around the league. I think that will be a pretty good weekend. It’s gonna be great. We’re gonna break down a lot of film, we’re gonna do a couple hours every day of infield work and just some drills that each of the guys like. I think it’s gonna be a forum where every guy can show a couple things that they like and that they see on film. I think it’s gonna be pretty cool.”

 

We can just hope hard work pays off for Hard Knox.

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On 6/8/2021 at 2:59 AM, HardyBoy said:

Do you think something that could help with that would be designing plays where the best way Knox could turn the play into a 30yd yac is if he attacks the ball as a way to use the defender's momentum against him?

 

Seems like what you're describing doesn't happen if he attacks the ball to make the catch. If you're sitting out there waiting for the ball, I could see your hips start turning early, leading to your head to turn a fraction of a second early.

 

I guess, is it it possible to attack the ball more even on a seam route, where he is bending his route a bit to give Allen a better throwing angle? No football relevant experience, but I played striker in soccer and we would bend runs all the time to create more space, give our teammates a wider passing angle and most importantly, allow us to be able to come back to the ball with suddenness...you wait for a ball in soccer instead of attacking it at the high point basically, your coach is gonna bench you pretty quick.

 

Should the coaches say we love that you're being aggressive, you need to make sure that starts with the catch as well...attack the ball knox...go catch it instead of letting the ball catch you. Hopefully that's what he's doing this summer. With a ping pong ball, you don't wait for it...you figure out where it's going to be and you catch the fing ball. You reach out and hit the ball into your palm and use that momentum to keep control of the ball while you close your hand around it...if you're letting the ball hit your palm and then try and catch, it's most likely bouncing off before your hand can register and close.

 

Hope that makes sense, my youngest is getting all four canine teeth and the last week and a half have been a trip, but gives me a chance to post on here at 4am!

 

I'm no route running expert.  But to my eye, Knox doesn't run very good routes.  Cover1 commented in one film breakdown (praising a good, physical route where he used a hard arm-over to gain separation) that Knox "isn't very physical" in terms of how he gets off the line and gets separation. 

 

My sense is that the nuances of route running have been beyond him - that he doesn't have the right timing, or run just the right path.  I look at him sometimes and I'm like OK, Josh doesn't have a clear lane to him but if he were a yard deeper and a yard to the left, he would.  I do wonder if having Lee Smith as the vet in the TE room was - I wouldn't say counterproductive, but he wasn't going to be the veteran leader showing the young guys the nuances of how run routes, not Lee "I Don't Cut" Smith.

 

For Knox to be more effective, I think it starts with the fundamentals of learning how to run better routes and gain separation.

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