Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I know you like to throw out some loosely constructed jabs at people of faith, but these old books you speak of are full of historical records. I’m not sure what you think they are. I think this board is a great example of what they are. People can believe what they want to believe and refuse to see no matter what is true, all religions are man made mechanisms of control and only one maximum by their own accord can be correct. when people want to kill each other over those mechanisms, some critical thinking is warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I think this board is a great example of what they are. People can believe what they want to believe and refuse to see no matter what is true, all religions are man made mechanisms of control and only one maximum by their own accord can be correct. when people want to kill each other over those mechanisms, some critical thinking is warranted. That may be true but these old books you refer to are also historical records. And, for what it’s worth a lot of people have died in struggles over land that have nothing to do with religion. Humans have been in conflict over land, resources, etc since the dawn of time...long before your propped up boogie man of religion. The same is true in the animal kingdom. Watch any nature show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 26 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I think this board is a great example of what they are. People can believe what they want to believe and refuse to see no matter what is true, all religions are man made mechanisms of control and only one maximum by their own accord can be correct. when people want to kill each other over those mechanisms, some critical thinking is warranted. Whatever it is, the beaches are nice and the food is good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: That may be true but these old books you refer to are also historical records. And, for what it’s worth a lot of people have died in struggles over land that have nothing to do with religion. Humans have been in conflict over land, resources, etc since the dawn of time...long before your propped up boogie man of religion. The same is true in the animal kingdom. Watch any nature show. Well so to paraphrase my original question that I was asking, besides religious boogie man, does anyone know what the value is of this land? And I’m not suggesting people go to war over religion as much as I’m suggesting people in power that want to go to war, use religion to recruit their soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 What's the value of anyone's homeland? People live all over the globe, not just the scenic parts or the arable parts or the moderately temperate parts. Also, people practice their respective religions all over the globe -- not just in their particular holy land. The answer to your question is: who cares, people want to live there, and when that happens, they'll fight to stay there. 37 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Well so to paraphrase my original question that I was asking, besides religious boogie man, does anyone know what the value is of this land? And I’m not suggesting people go to war over religion as much as I’m suggesting people in power that want to go to war, use religion to recruit their soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, snafu said: What's the value of anyone's homeland? People live all over the globe, not just the scenic parts or the arable parts or the moderately temperate parts. Also, people practice their respective religions all over the globe -- not just in their particular holy land. The answer to your question is: who cares, people want to live there, and when that happens, they'll fight to stay there. The land is of inestimable value. It is simply impossible to value it without regard to Jewish history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 minute ago, sherpa said: The land is of inestimable value. It is simply impossible to value it without regard to Jewish history. Jewish, Muslim and Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Just now, meazza said: Jewish, Muslim and Christian. And that doesn't include the Israelis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I think this board is a great example of what they are. People can believe what they want to believe and refuse to see no matter what is true, all religions are man made mechanisms of control and only one maximum by their own accord can be correct. when people want to kill each other over those mechanisms, some critical thinking is warranted. Is killing wrong or immoral? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, sherpa said: The land is of inestimable value. It is simply impossible to value it without regard to Jewish history. Sure, but the Jews weren't the only inhabitants. That land could be said about probably a dozen cultures and several religions. And my point is that people practice their faith in all corners of the world. Do Catholics in a Church in Seattle feel less pious than Catholics in Jerusalem, or Vatican City? Would Catholics in Portugal fight for their homes regardless of whether they practice their faith in that location? People live where they live, and most WANT to live where they live. Faith and history are two factors in dozens, those two factors are not overweighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, snafu said: People live where they live, and most WANT to live where they live. That’s fallacy. World history is literally eons of migration and settling, resettling. Have you seen footage of our southern border? 54 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Is killing wrong or immoral? Why? I personally believe it’s wrong and immoral but at the same time as we are really all just animals, there are times when we face kill or be killed situations and have to make a choice. Some people think killing is acceptable, some think it is never justifiable. Others believe what ever their handlers tell them to think. Edited May 18, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: That’s fallacy. World history is literally eons of migration and settling, resettling. Have you seen footage of our southern border? You're right, but you're also forgetting about the eons of people staying put, too. You make it out that migration and resettling are the rule, not the exception. Also, how much of that migration is based upon people following their faith to the cradle of their religion? In any event, you asked a question and I answered it. Faith is a factor in why people have settled in Israel and the region, but it isn't the sole factor, and probably isn't the main factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 minute ago, snafu said: You're right, but you're also forgetting about the eons of people staying put, too. You make it out that migration and resettling are the rule, not the exception. Also, how much of that migration is based upon people following their faith to the cradle of their religion? In any event, you asked a question and I answered it. Faith is a factor in why people have settled in Israel and the region, but it isn't the sole factor, and probably isn't the main factor. Fair. I just wonder why the Palestinians don’t just go take over some other parcel of desert, or go to Iran whose funneling all those weapons in anyway. Why accept living under Israeli oppression. Most of Israel is barren wasteland anyway. The Brits created this recent mess in the late ‘40s. I found a timeline that shows Jerusalem has changed hands 50 times in the past few thousand years. usually people settle somewhere because it has some societal benefit, access to fresh water, fertile land, strategic shipping lanes, access to ground transportation, lumber, sustainable for domesticating animals. what’s Israel got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Fair. I just wonder why the Palestinians don’t just go take over some other parcel of desert, or go to Iran whose funneling all those weapons in anyway. Why accept living under Israeli oppression. Most of Israel is barren wasteland anyway. The Brits created this recent mess in the late ‘40s. I found a timeline that shows Jerusalem has changed hands 50 times in the past few thousand years. usually people settle somewhere because it has some societal benefit, access to fresh water, fertile land, strategic shipping lanes, access to ground transportation, lumber, sustainable for domesticating animals. what’s Israel got? Who knows? I've often wondered why a whole lot of people cram themselves into living in substandard conditions in NYC when there's a whole lot of better options less than 100 miles away -- or anywhere else for that matter. It ain't religion keeping them here, just like it ain't religion keeping the Palestinians in Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Not to be crass, but other than being mentioned in some old books, what makes that land there so desirable? Is it loaded with natural resources or super arable ? Most people in both camps would say it is not worth dieing for. Their religious and political leaders create the hatred. The Lord never intended people to fight over a golden idol. You can love God, believe and honor without the Crystal Palace. Just ask Jim and Tammy Fae. Some Flippin preacher says so and the sheep follow. The leaders can never compromise as the Lord would have wanted because when peace prevails, they become unnecessary. Always wonder how a priest/preacher could pray fir the protection of an army battalion and then send them out to kill. What do you think happens in Gaza? Exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: Most people in both camps would say it is not worth dieing for. Their religious and political leaders create the hatred. The Lord never intended people to fight over a golden idol. You can love God, believe and honor without the Crystal Palace. Just ask Jim and Tammy Fae. Some Flippin preacher says so and the sheep follow. The leaders can never compromise as the Lord would have wanted because when peace prevails, they become unnecessary. Always wonder how a priest/preacher could pray fir the protection of an army battalion and then send them out to kill. What do you think happens in Gaza? Exactly the same. Wow that's a lot to digest. I think what you're trying to say is that no piece of land is worth killing for. That's different from saying it's not worth dying for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I personally believe it’s wrong and immoral but at the same time as we are really all just animals, there are times when we face kill or be killed situations and have to make a choice. Some people think killing is acceptable, some think it is never justifiable. Others believe what ever their handlers tell them to think. I ask because you inferred killing was wrong and I wondered why and under what moral authority. Sounds like it's just your personal opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Pokebball said: I ask because you inferred killing was wrong and I wondered why and under what moral authority. Sounds like it's just your personal opinion? Yeah. Is that yours or did you feel differently until some religious leader told you otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Yeah. Is that yours or did you feel differently until some religious leader told you otherwise? My moral authority is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Pokebball said: My moral authority is God. Oh, what did god tell you? And I know some around here feel asking for Id is racist so how were you sure it was him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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