Tenhigh Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, daz28 said: Fine, for this instance, but I like to lay things down in terms where it's very, very hard to dispute them. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 10 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Why was it high? Be specific if you will--give me top three or four. That's the question you as a filthy footed sandal wearing hippy stoner beach bum* need to answer. *We tease because we love. I have a big nose and lazy eye--have at it. I'm going to quote my father-in-law and step-father-in-law here because I don't think this is a policy thing so much as a "stick it to da man" thing, which I'm seein reflected in some of your most recent posts as well: "He's an outsider who doesn't do things the Washington-way." Seriously. That's what I believe it boils down to. It's the essence of his popularity. And in terms of policy (to some degree, at least), his popularity primarily among the more institutional Republicans has to do with the sheer luck of being able to nominate so many federal and Supreme Court Judges. But that was just the dumb luck of being President for 4 years, and getting 3 Supreme Court vacancies with a Republican controlled Senate led by a Senator with no integrity who blocked so many federal judges during the Obama Administration soas to limit his own nominations along with blocking Merrick Garland after Scalia's death for 10 months and then pulling a 180 when Ginsberg passed. Really it's probably judges. Policy-wise that's why he's so popular. Funny enough because it was luck. I also think there are plenty of reasons that fall underneath that. White Extremists are probably 100% behind him, but no, I don't believe all Trump supporters are White Extremists. So many other roads to go down that aren't policy like "he says what he's thinking" or "there's no filter" or "look at his Empire..." etc. I'm sorry but with the ultimate unravelling of this week--just the final one (hopefully) of many--I think you guys need to just open your eyes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: I'm going to quote my father-in-law and step-father-in-law here because I don't think this is a policy thing so much as a "stick it to da man" thing, which I'm seein reflected in some of your most recent posts as well: "He's an outsider who doesn't do things the Washington-way." Seriously. That's what I believe it boils down to. It's the essence of his popularity. And in terms of policy (to some degree, at least), his popularity primarily among the more institutional Republicans has to do with the sheer luck of being able to nominate so many federal and Supreme Court Judges. But that was just the dumb luck of being President for 4 years, and getting 3 Supreme Court vacancies with a Republican controlled Senate led by a Senator with no integrity who blocked so many federal judges during the Obama Administration soas to limit his own nominations along with blocking Merrick Garland after Scalia's death for 10 months and then pulling a 180 when Ginsberg passed. Really it's probably judges. Policy-wise that's why he's so popular. Funny enough because it was luck. I also think there are plenty of reasons that fall underneath that. White Extremists are probably 100% behind him, but no, I don't believe all Trump supporters are White Extremists. So many other roads to go down that aren't policy like "he says what he's thinking" or "there's no filter" or "look at his Empire..." etc. I'm sorry but with the ultimate unravelling of this week--just the final one (hopefully) of many--I think you guys need to just open your eyes. People just like Trump. They wouldn't hate him if he didn't appoint as many judges or any of that nonsense. He's just 'their vision' of what a president should be. The truth is the China tariffs didn't bring back jobs, and they aren't going to. He didn't build the wall, and he never was going to. The only thing that might stick is he's an outsider. I know it appealed to me with Ross Perot Edited January 9, 2021 by daz28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/8/2021 at 11:11 PM, transplantbillsfan said: I'm going to quote my father-in-law and step-father-in-law here because I don't think this is a policy thing so much as a "stick it to da man" thing, which I'm seein reflected in some of your most recent posts as well: "He's an outsider who doesn't do things the Washington-way." Seriously. That's what I believe it boils down to. It's the essence of his popularity. And in terms of policy (to some degree, at least), his popularity primarily among the more institutional Republicans has to do with the sheer luck of being able to nominate so many federal and Supreme Court Judges. But that was just the dumb luck of being President for 4 years, and getting 3 Supreme Court vacancies with a Republican controlled Senate led by a Senator with no integrity who blocked so many federal judges during the Obama Administration soas to limit his own nominations along with blocking Merrick Garland after Scalia's death for 10 months and then pulling a 180 when Ginsberg passed. Really it's probably judges. Policy-wise that's why he's so popular. Funny enough because it was luck. I also think there are plenty of reasons that fall underneath that. White Extremists are probably 100% behind him, but no, I don't believe all Trump supporters are White Extremists. So many other roads to go down that aren't policy like "he says what he's thinking" or "there's no filter" or "look at his Empire..." etc. I'm sorry but with the ultimate unravelling of this week--just the final one (hopefully) of many--I think you guys need to just open your eyes. Well, thanks for the clarification on the white supremacy thing--it's awesome that you don't think your old pal Len and his folks aren't card carrying Klansmen. If it matters, I want you to know I don't think you were out burning police stations and assaulting people in the streets this summer. That said--thanks for the reply. I asked, you answered and I appreciate it. I'll do my best to summarize the most common reason(s) the many folks I know supported Trump initially, and why he gained such incredible momentum before COVID devastated the world. I'm not going to bore you with details, I'm not all that interested in back and forth about it was all Barrack and Biden, I'm just telling you what I know. Many, many Trump voters in 2016 were reluctant at best. Most republican politicians were not Trump supporters when he was elected. He was pretty much out there on an island, and the 95% figure came later on as he delivered on his promises. The outsider effect was an important consideration and certainly played a factor in him getting elected. The reality is that many mainstream R voters had gotten tired of lip service from established politicians, and those who becamse known as "Never Trumpers". Trump's personna played a part in that, especially on the heels of two horribly bad R candidates in the 135 year old John McCain, and Mitt Romney who looked like he could be president in a movie. Trump's default response was "F Y", and it was music to our ears especially after Gentleman Mitt got his ass handed to him because he was born without a *****. The main reasons imo, apologies to Virg, but in no particular order: 1. Obiden represented apologies, globalism, big government as the savior, and a thumb in the eye of law enforcement. Trump represented American exceptionalism, the notion that our country carried far too much of the internationalism burden for far too long, and the inherent desire to be proud of who we are. 2. A commitment to supporting job creation for all Americans. We believed he was better positioned to create an atmosphere that was pro-growth. Maybe that ties into the outsider thing, maybe that's because he was a business owner dealing with often generous regulation that snuffs jobs as they sleep, or maybe it was just some hope to drag us out of the malaise of the Obama years. One of the fundamental reasons 95% of the R population supported the guy is that we like to work, and we damn sure like to eat. 3. Tax policy. Paying tax is a patriotic duty, excessive taxation is not. Most R voters I know believe in keeping more of what they earn, and finding the delicate balance between funding programs and getting hammered into submission, and believe DJT did very well in this regard. 4. Border security--most prominent candidates have waxed nationalistically about the souther border for decades, yet precious little has been done about it. I believe there is no plan to accomplish anything at all, and absent Trump, the Schumers and McConnells of the world would have postured about disagreement and gone on with business as usual. Trump appeared committed to try and deal with it. Speaking only from my perspective, I've noted the extraordinary number or times 'the media' or other politicians have tried to hang the missteps of other admins on Trump, and how his attempts at establishing orderly control at the border were widely mocked. That doesn't surprise most R voters who came to support him in this regard. 5. Judges. You're correct about McConnell's commitment to appointing judges, that was a very important part of the Trump admin and widely supported. The good fortune, politically speaking, of having RBG die prior to the election cannot be understated. She was, and is a towering figure in the American political landscape, an amazing women of substance but in the end, her legacy is impacted by hubris. We'll see how that helps/hurts the R voter as time goes on. As for the integrity of the Senate, please, spare me. From here out, it will be interesting to see what President Elect Groper, Chuck and Nancy push forward with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/7/2021 at 3:18 PM, TBBills said: Sure all extremists are bad but the worst are the ones who are brainwashed by a man in complete power. They use his leadership as an excuse to do these things, other extremists from other parties don't have that luxury to follow someone else they just look stupid in the eyes of everyone. Only the Trumpster party will coddle terrorism b.c they think it is the right thing to do. So then you mean those that devastated cities all over the US this past summer looked or acted pretty stupid ? Just looking for a little clarification . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 14 minutes ago, T master said: So then you mean those that devastated cities all over the US this past summer looked or acted pretty stupid ? Just looking for a little clarification . Devastated cities? You mean the damage that occurred in some neighborhoods? Planning to overthrow our election and then making excuses like this? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Devastated cities? You mean the damage that occurred in some neighborhoods? Planning to overthrow our election and then making excuses like this? Yes basically devastated cities because the people that live in those cities were scared to death to venture out side as to not get caught up in a peaceful demonstration and possibly get beaten or worse so if by some actions the typical city life grinds to a halt for law abiding citizens then yes i consider that devastating a city as others apparently didn't . But we all have our differences of opinions . I'm not making excuses for any one ! What the ignorant did the other day in DC was deplorable and they should be arrested and tried to the full extent of the law that being said so should any one that was looting, burning, beating or destroying property this past summer but it was looked at through a different lens by the mayors and a lot of people to fit the narrative . Was it any better to take over and destroy a police station and the blocks surrounding it or to break into the federal building and start fires in Portland ? No it wasn't but some just sat around watched and let it go on for weeks and did absolutely nothing ! No matter how you try to twist it destruction of federal property in the ways it went down in either situation is BS and they ALL should be tried to the fullest extent of the law . JMHO . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 hours ago, T master said: Yes basically devastated cities because the people that live in those cities were scared to death to venture out side as to not get caught up in a peaceful demonstration and possibly get beaten or worse so if by some actions the typical city life grinds to a halt for law abiding citizens then yes i consider that devastating a city as others apparently didn't . But we all have our differences of opinions . I'm not making excuses for any one ! What the ignorant did the other day in DC was deplorable and they should be arrested and tried to the full extent of the law that being said so should any one that was looting, burning, beating or destroying property this past summer but it was looked at through a different lens by the mayors and a lot of people to fit the narrative . Was it any better to take over and destroy a police station and the blocks surrounding it or to break into the federal building and start fires in Portland ? No it wasn't but some just sat around watched and let it go on for weeks and did absolutely nothing ! No matter how you try to twist it destruction of federal property in the ways it went down in either situation is BS and they ALL should be tried to the fullest extent of the law . JMHO . No one was afraid to go out in Buffalo. There were protests in certain small areas and you use that to excuse away treason, sedition and violence against our national legislature. You people are crazy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Good topic. I’ll take my shot: 1. A fundamental issue that should center any debate between opposing political factions should be the role of government in America, specifically the federal government. Those on the left favor a more expansive role, and in the right a more limited. My opinion is more towards the latter; I think the federal government is involved too much in things that are more appropriately state or local functions, such as education policy. We need to have a serious national debate on this. 2. We should all agree that every American should have the same rights and that any attempt to take away those rights should be fought by all. For example, we all have the right to vote, and any attempt to alter that right should be vigorously opposed. No American should have less rights than others, nor should anyone be offered more rights to somehow make up for perceived historical lack of rights. 3. We should all be able to agree that we live in a free country, but that you expressing your freedom to do something can not interfere with my freedom. As an example, you cannot use your claim of religious freedom to deny me my freedom or my rights. As an example of this our practice writes birth control prescriptions to regulate a woman’s cycle to, in fact, help her get pregnant. And a couple times pharmacists won’t fill it claiming it violates their religious freedom. Wrong. 4. We should all learn the meaning of the word compromise, and demand this of our elected representatives. We need to realize that very few, if any, political issues are black and white and that the best answers to move the country forward are couched in shades of grey. 5. We should all agree that the country as a whole needs a class on civics. 6. We should all be able to agree that America still stands as the greatest experiment in democracy in history, and that we can be proud of our country while acknowledging we have problems. And that’s when one raises a problem and/or questions the government, someone saying - if you don’t like it, leave- is an inadequate response. just some ideas, and I’ll leave it with one more observation. Those protesting at the Capitol last week seemed to claim they were losing their freedoms, that they wanted to take back America. My response is this: how? How are your freedoms being negated? You still have your constitutionally protected rights. You voted, you used your right to protest (and I’ll say here violence in any form of protest should be met with arrest and prosecution), you carry your guns if you like, and so on. From my viewpoint, no freedoms have been removed from that group of protestors. Nor has America been taken away. Those protesting last week still go to their jobs, send their kids to school, and so on. How exactly has America been so changed? If your concern is that there are others who are getting their chance to participate in the American experience, that’s on you, not them. Perhaps someone can explain to me why so many seem to think their America is gone. It’s still there, and as it has since its inception America grows and adapts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 15 hours ago, Tiberius said: No one was afraid to go out in Buffalo. There were protests in certain small areas and you use that to excuse away treason, sedition and violence against our national legislature. You people are crazy You know i just erased what i was going to post as a reply because as usual you would only read what you want to fit your personal opinions . Read the second paragraph again in the post maybe reading it a second time you will get it 🤔 but i highly doubt it !! The devastated cities i was referring to were the ones all over the news Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NY, DC, and others that the Mayors did absolutely NOTHING to stop any of what was happening . In those cities mentioned do you see 1 thing that is the same in each ? Again probably not . Thank you though you have finally made me understand exactly a saying my dad use to use when i was young "You can't see the forest for the trees" by conversing with you i finally get it Thanks . Carry on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 23 minutes ago, T master said: You know i just erased what i was going to post as a reply because as usual you would only read what you want to fit your personal opinions . Read the second paragraph again in the post maybe reading it a second time you will get it 🤔 but i highly doubt it !! The devastated cities i was referring to were the ones all over the news Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NY, DC, and others that the Mayors did absolutely NOTHING to stop any of what was happening . In those cities mentioned do you see 1 thing that is the same in each ? Again probably not . Thank you though you have finally made me understand exactly a saying my dad use to use when i was young "You can't see the forest for the trees" by conversing with you i finally get it Thanks . Carry on You think Trump bears any responsibility in organizing that mob? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You think Trump bears any responsibility in organizing that mob? Well to look at it from what i know for a fact . It was a Trump rally so his people did organize it to your point ? He did say somethings to get people riled up with in the speech - I know you agree with that with out a doubt ! And may even interject your own interpretations into your opinion . I personally haven't listened to the speech in it's entirety because i can't stand political BS (you for sure aren't going to get a true look at what happened from any news out let) from either side because as i've said none of them are truthful with that being said though I don't believe in any way shape or form that he told those people directly or in so many words to go break into the capital some people just look for any excuse to be destructive . Just like this summer i would like to think in a civilized world (which i have some serious doubts that we live in one now) that the people this past summer that set out to peacefully protest did just that . But then the a** bags in some certain groups saw a opportunity to use a peaceful demonstration platform to forward their own agenda weather it was to get a new 65 inch flat screen or a new stereo or just thugs being thugs some people are just defiant by nature. We all remember the guy or gal in school that was just always causing trouble Hell my nephew is one of those a** bags if you paid him he'd be on the first plane out fighting with any one just because he's that guy . He's a typical POS human they are every where in every city and town . I don't believe that peace was in any way in their initiative (for some) this summer or last week when they went to each of these protests SOME not all that were at that rally I would hope were people that were there were there because they believed in what they believe peacefully and weren't there in any way to start what happened. Then there were those there that specifically went there to start sh** if for no other reason than to make Trump look worse than what he is to continue the hate and divide us even more because some (especially the haters) won't see it for what it is but for what they want . Edited January 12, 2021 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, T master said: Well to look at it from what i know for a fact . It was a Trump rally - Do you agree ? He did say somethings to get people riled up with in the speech - I know you agree with that with out a doubt ! And may even interject your own interpretations into your opinion . I personally haven't listened to the speech in it's entirety because i can't stand political BS (you for sure aren't going to get a true look at what happened from any news out let) from either side because as i've said none of them are truthful with that being said though I don't believe that he told those people directly or in so many words to go break into the capital some people just look for any excuse to be destructive . Just like this summer i would like to think in a civilized world (which i have some serious doubts that we live in one now) that the people this past summer that set out to peacefully protest did just that . But then the a** bags in some certain groups saw a opportunity to use a peaceful demonstration platform to forward their own agenda weather it was to get a new 65 inch flat screen or a new stereo or just thugs being thugs some people are just defiant by nature. We all remember the guy or gal in school that was just always causing trouble Hell my nephew is one of those a** bags if you paid him he'd be on the first plane out fighting with any one just because he's that guy . He's a typical POS human they are every where in every city and town . I don't believe that peace was in any way in their initiative (for some) this summer or last week when they went to each of these protests SOME not all that were at that rally I would hope were people that were there were there because they believed in what they believe peacefully and weren't there in any way to start what happened. Then there were those there that specifically went there to start sh** if for no other reason than to make Trump look worse than what he is to continue the hate and divide us even more because some (especially the haters) won't see it for what it is but for what they want . Big deference between criminals using other people's protests to loot and steal and a bunch of brainwashed people lead by the president of the United States to commit terrorism and try to destroy democracy by storming the Capitol with pipe bombs and people dieing b.c the president refused to call in the national guard... Pence actually had to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, T master said: Well to look at it from what i know for a fact . It was a Trump rally so his people did organize it to your point ? He did say somethings to get people riled up with in the speech - I know you agree with that with out a doubt ! And may even interject your own interpretations into your opinion . I personally haven't listened to the speech in it's entirety because i can't stand political BS (you for sure aren't going to get a true look at what happened from any news out let) from either side because as i've said none of them are truthful with that being said though I don't believe in any way shape or form that he told those people directly or in so many words to go break into the capital some people just look for any excuse to be destructive . Just like this summer i would like to think in a civilized world (which i have some serious doubts that we live in one now) that the people this past summer that set out to peacefully protest did just that . But then the a** bags in some certain groups saw a opportunity to use a peaceful demonstration platform to forward their own agenda weather it was to get a new 65 inch flat screen or a new stereo or just thugs being thugs some people are just defiant by nature. We all remember the guy or gal in school that was just always causing trouble Hell my nephew is one of those a** bags if you paid him he'd be on the first plane out fighting with any one just because he's that guy . He's a typical POS human they are every where in every city and town . I don't believe that peace was in any way in their initiative (for some) this summer or last week when they went to each of these protests SOME not all that were at that rally I would hope were people that were there were there because they believed in what they believe peacefully and weren't there in any way to start what happened. Then there were those there that specifically went there to start sh** if for no other reason than to make Trump look worse than what he is to continue the hate and divide us even more because some (especially the haters) won't see it for what it is but for what they want . He sure fired them up with lie and lie and said they were being cheated because the election was stolen and said he was going to lead them to Congress (he didn't). I'd say his lying to them again and again about the election was an incitement to violence when taken as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Just now, TBBills said: Big deference between criminals using other people's protests to loot and steal and a bunch of brainwashed people lead by the president of the United States to commit terrorism and try to destroy democracy by storming the Capitol with pipe bombs and people dieing b.c the president refused to call in the national guard... Pence actually had to do it. Well there again what was said this past year when he called in the National guard in DC, Portland and other cities (My son was in DC so i now first hand the disrespect) he had people spit at him tell him to "GET THE F*** OUT OF OUR CITY and the mayor of DC said in true form "we don't want or need the National guard in my city) as rioters were causing any kind of destruction physical or other wise because Trump called them in he was a dictator but now totally different because it was his rally - CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD !! IT'S ALL GOOD NOW . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Good topic. I’ll take my shot: 1. A fundamental issue that should center any debate between opposing political factions should be the role of government in America, specifically the federal government. Those on the left favor a more expansive role, and in the right a more limited. My opinion is more towards the latter; I think the federal government is involved too much in things that are more appropriately state or local functions, such as education policy. We need to have a serious national debate on this. Agree on this, though the state(s) government often suffer from the same bloat and overreach as the feds. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 2. We should all agree that every American should have the same rights and that any attempt to take away those rights should be fought by all. For example, we all have the right to vote, and any attempt to alter that right should be vigorously opposed. No American should have less rights than others, nor should anyone be offered more rights to somehow make up for perceived historical lack of rights. Agreed. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 3. We should all be able to agree that we live in a free country, but that you expressing your freedom to do something can not interfere with my freedom. As an example, you cannot use your claim of religious freedom to deny me my freedom or my rights. As an example of this our practice writes birth control prescriptions to regulate a woman’s cycle to, in fact, help her get pregnant. And a couple times pharmacists won’t fill it claiming it violates their religious freedom. Wrong. I'm with you mostly here. As a business owner myself I can't imagine treating any customer poorly, or denying service to someone in need of my assistance. I struggle when we get to issues like mandatory contraceptive coverage as in the Little Sisters of the Poor case. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 4. We should all learn the meaning of the word compromise, and demand this of our elected representatives. We need to realize that very few, if any, political issues are black and white and that the best answers to move the country forward are couched in shades of grey. Agreed. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 5. We should all agree that the country as a whole needs a class on civics. Agred. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 6. We should all be able to agree that America still stands as the greatest experiment in democracy in history, and that we can be proud of our country while acknowledging we have problems. And that’s when one raises a problem and/or questions the government, someone saying - if you don’t like it, leave- is an inadequate response. Agreed. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: just some ideas, and I’ll leave it with one more observation. Those protesting at the Capitol last week seemed to claim they were losing their freedoms, that they wanted to take back America. My response is this: how? How are your freedoms being negated? You still have your constitutionally protected rights. You voted, you used your right to protest (and I’ll say here violence in any form of protest should be met with arrest and prosecution), you carry your guns if you like, and so on. From my viewpoint, no freedoms have been removed from that group of protestors. Agreed. Protest to vote, stop the steal, March to End Racism...all good. Violence, breeching the Capitol, destruction of personal property, all sides of the same coin. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Nor has America been taken away. Those protesting last week still go to their jobs, send their kids to school, and so on. How exactly has America been so changed? If your concern is that there are others who are getting their chance to participate in the American experience, that’s on you, not them. Perhaps someone can explain to me why so many seem to think their America is gone. It’s still there, and as it has since its inception America grows and adapts. So on this one, I am wading in slowly. My humble suggestion on this point is that many, many folks upset or willing to peacefully protest may no longer have jobs to go to, and I've said all along that this issue divides us--it's incredibly easy, relatively speaking, to weather the COVID storm when you get paid. People can hunker down perpetually when they can pay their bills, meet their obligations and wait things out. We have millions of citizens in that category, including every elected official protected by law enforcement last week. Unfortunately, we have tens of millions of people not in this position nearly a year into the crisis. How long would you be willing to lock down if you had nothing? How long would you have been willing to lock down if you had nothing, you were 35 years old and the primary breadwinner for your spouse and family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 46 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Agree on this, though the state(s) government often suffer from the same bloat and overreach as the feds. Agreed. I'm with you mostly here. As a business owner myself I can't imagine treating any customer poorly, or denying service to someone in need of my assistance. I struggle when we get to issues like mandatory contraceptive coverage as in the Little Sisters of the Poor case. Agreed. Agred. Agreed. Agreed. Protest to vote, stop the steal, March to End Racism...all good. Violence, breeching the Capitol, destruction of personal property, all sides of the same coin. So on this one, I am wading in slowly. My humble suggestion on this point is that many, many folks upset or willing to peacefully protest may no longer have jobs to go to, and I've said all along that this issue divides us--it's incredibly easy, relatively speaking, to weather the COVID storm when you get paid. People can hunker down perpetually when they can pay their bills, meet their obligations and wait things out. We have millions of citizens in that category, including every elected official protected by law enforcement last week. Unfortunately, we have tens of millions of people not in this position nearly a year into the crisis. How long would you be willing to lock down if you had nothing? How long would you have been willing to lock down if you had nothing, you were 35 years old and the primary breadwinner for your spouse and family? To the last point, I have been blessed to be able to continue working during the pandemic. My daughter, who is a professional performer, has not. But she has cobbled together other employment to make do. I think the government in such an emergent situation should help those who are left out in the cold, as we tried to do. The way we did it was flawed. Money should only have been targeted to businesses that were closed, particularly small business, and to unemployed individuals/families. The ultimate answer is to defeat the virus, and I'd rather not get into all that argument again in this thread. I would suggest this attitude of freedoms somehow being taken away was prevalent even before the pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: To the last point, I have been blessed to be able to continue working during the pandemic. My daughter, who is a professional performer, has not. But she has cobbled together other employment to make do. I think the government in such an emergent situation should help those who are left out in the cold, as we tried to do. The way we did it was flawed. Money should only have been targeted to businesses that were closed, particularly small business, and to unemployed individuals/families. The ultimate answer is to defeat the virus, and I'd rather not get into all that argument again in this thread. I would suggest this attitude of freedoms somehow being taken away was prevalent even before the pandemic. I waded slowly for a reason--this is a common ground thread. Whether we agree or not, the reality is that others are not so blessed, and the point is that they see this last year as an assault on this nebulous concept of freedom. When you factor in that many people are cynical about what it exactly means to defeat the virus, it's a recipe for misunderstanding and passionate disagreement. We can agree that there are many, many things the government made mistakes on with respect to COVID. On my best day, I recognize the absolutely massive challenge with trying to get all these moving parts figured out. On my worst, I feel much differently about all the people pulling the strings. Finally, I agree on your last point--the assault on freedom crowd (left, right or middle) has been around a long time. Pretty much across the board, there are certainly reasons for each segment to believe they are the victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 There's no common ground to be found between the average person and those who were willing to try and overthrow the government on a bunch of lies for a want to be tyrant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, jrober38 said: There's no common ground to be found between the average person and those who were willing to try and overthrow the government on a bunch of lies for a want to be tyrant. I don't think this is true at all. I bet if you read this whole thread, and then discussed the points of common ground we identified with one of the people at the capital you would probably find out that they agree on very many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts