shoshin Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 What a terrible idea. Don’t want to pay it back? Don’t take out the loan. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/politics/biden-student-loans.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Also don't follow a dead end career choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backintheday544 Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 TCJA had a cost of $1.9 trillion dollars to give tax cuts to mainly wealthy people. Cancelling all Federal student loan debt would cost $1.7 trillion. Where some simulations show it would add between $800 billion to $1 trillion dollars to real gdp in a 9 year period plus add hundreds of thousands of jobs: http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/rpr_2_6.pdf i would put this more in the category of spending taxpayer money wisely that stupidly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Great topic. Does anyone know what happens to a company like SoFi if the government cancels all student loan debt? It was my understanding that their business model was based on restructuring and consolidating debt for these kids. I’m guessing they’ve got big time lobbyists working the halls of Congress everyday trying to pump the brakes on any loan cancellation programs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Great topic. Does anyone know what happens to a company like SoFi if the government cancels all student loan debt? It was my understanding that their business model was based on restructuring and consolidating debt for these kids. I’m guessing they’ve got big time lobbyists working the halls of Congress everyday trying to pump the brakes on any loan cancellation programs. IMO this all hinges on wether the Democrats can take the Senate or not. If they can, it’s at least possible. If the Republicans can maintain the Senate majority any cancelling of student loan debt is dead on arrival. Next month will be huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said: IMO this all hinges on wether the Democrats can take the Senate or not. If they can, it’s at least possible. If the Republicans can maintain the Senate majority any cancelling of student loan debt is dead on arrival. Next month will be huge. No doubt....but not my question. What happens to SoFi? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: No doubt....but not my question. What happens to SoFi? Anyone know? They would have to adapt, but they would be fine. They have many loans they are currently servicing. Each of those are paying them a decent bit of interest. Plus, it seems they have at least somewhat saw the writing in the wall. They have constantly been diversifying away from student loans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 13 hours ago, shoshin said: What a terrible idea. Don’t want to pay it back? Don’t take out the loan. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/politics/biden-student-loans.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage I agree 100% it's a pretty simple concept JMHO ! If you give it away like some want to there will some that will become career students then go from there to being career politicians and that is something we definitely don't need !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 13 hours ago, Wacka said: Also don't follow a dead end career choice. Don't get above your raisin, huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said: They would have to adapt, but they would be fine. They have many loans they are currently servicing. Each of those are paying them a decent bit of interest. Plus, it seems they have at least somewhat saw the writing in the wall. They have constantly been diversifying away from student loans. No doubt, but what about they’re customers? Do those kids get their SoFi payments forgiven? Or do they just get screwed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 What a boost to consumer spending it would be! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: No doubt, but what about they’re customers? Do those kids get their SoFi payments forgiven? Or do they just get screwed? Good question. Years ago I consolidated all my loans with a company like So-Fi so technically I no longer have federal loans. I don't expect those would be forgiven. Not sure enough details have been released on this. I'm not for cancelling all student debt, but if a borrower has paid in total more than the principal and still owes, said borrower should have the remainder of their loan forgiven. I think that's a spot both sides of Congress could potentially agree with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Good question. Years ago I consolidated all my loans with a company like So-Fi so technically I no longer have federal loans. I don't expect those would be forgiven. Not sure enough details have been released on this. I'm not for cancelling all student debt, but if a borrower has paid in total more than the principal and still owes, said borrower should have the remainder of their loan forgiven. I think that's a spot both sides of Congress could potentially agree with. On what moral basis? People took out loans. I'd like my mortgage forgiven too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 1 minute ago, shoshin said: On what moral basis? People took out loans. I'd like my mortgage forgiven too. What moral basis? I'm not sure. I just know at the age of 32 I am still in debt up to my eyeballs and went to a SUNY School. Most people I know in their 30s are renting because they can't afford a mortgage because they are paying $500 - $100 a month in loans. I think the economic benefits of forgiveness would far outweigh the negatives. As to a mortgage, when your mortgage is paid off, the value of your home is (hopefully!) still worth at least the principal you paid and likely much more. It's an extremely valuable asset. So too, of course, is an education, but it is not a tangible good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: What moral basis? I'm not sure. I just know at the age of 32 I am still in debt up to my eyeballs and went to a SUNY School. Most people I know in their 30s are renting because they can't afford a mortgage because they are paying $500 - $100 a month in loans. I think the economic benefits of forgiveness would far outweigh the negatives. As to a mortgage, when your mortgage is paid off, the value of your home is (hopefully!) still worth at least the principal you paid and likely much more. It's an extremely valuable asset. So too, of course, is an education, but it is not a tangible good. If student debt is 1.9 trillion, why forgive just former students? That only benefits the educated. Why not give 1.9 Trillion to every citizen? 6 grand a person. The idea that we can just keep spending and that taking out a loan comes without obligation, is irresponsible and teaches and encourages irresponsible behavior. When you take out a loan, you pay it back. It's giving your word whether it's a loan, promise, or bet. People of character fulfill their obligations. People of no character do not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, shoshin said: The idea that we can just keep spending and that taking out a loan comes without obligation, is irresponsible and teaches and encourages irresponsible behavior. When you take out a loan, you pay it back. It's giving your word whether it's a loan, promise, or bet. People of character fulfill their obligations. People of no character do not. Your first point is very difficult to argue. However, the second point I see only half-way. Yes - people of character fulfill their obligations yet there any plenty of people of character who cannot fulfill their debt obligations because they simply cannot afford the compounding interest on their debts. Edited December 11, 2020 by wAcKy ZeBrA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: However, the second point I see only half-way. Yes - people of character fulfill their obligations yet there any plenty of people of character who cannot fulfill their debt obligations because they simply cannot afford the compounding interest on their debts. You cut the deal you can, you make the payments you can. Banks in the US can't jail you for not paying your loan. Keep paying. Forgiveness is not the answer. By the way, I consolidated mine a long time ago and am still paying. My wife finished hers off a few years ago but her parents paid for her undergrad so she had a jump on me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: What moral basis? I'm not sure. I just know at the age of 32 I am still in debt up to my eyeballs and went to a SUNY School. Most people I know in their 30s are renting because they can't afford a mortgage because they are paying $500 - $100 a month in loans. I think the economic benefits of forgiveness would far outweigh the negatives. As to a mortgage, when your mortgage is paid off, the value of your home is (hopefully!) still worth at least the principal you paid and likely much more. It's an extremely valuable asset. So too, of course, is an education, but it is not a tangible good. 6 minutes ago, shoshin said: If student debt is 1.9 trillion, why forgive just former students? That only benefits the educated. Why not give 1.9 Trillion to every citizen? 6 grand a person. The idea that we can just keep spending and that taking out a loan comes without obligation, is irresponsible and teaches and encourages irresponsible behavior. When you take out a loan, you pay it back. It's giving your word whether it's a loan, promise, or bet. People of character fulfill their obligations. People of no character do not. And many of those people voted Biden for just this reason. This one is painful for me. We committed to the $300k or so that it cost to send our 3 children to school, including the opportunity to attend school away from home if they wanted it. Going away to school changed my life in many positive ways. My wife and I both incurred debt for school, both paid it off, and both were better for the experience. We viewed the commitment to our children's education as one of our parental duties, the only caveat being I wish I had encouraged them to absorb some of the debt along the way. I appreciate the Zeeb's honesty in the post he most recently shared--he understands the debt obligation but doesn't feel the interest payments are fair. I can also understand him wanting to offload the debt to the extent possible as his own personal hh stimulus. What I struggle to understand is why it's always someone else's burden to carry. I did a quick google search--SUNY Buffalo has an endowment fund of nearly $800m. In NYS, for certain families, the Excelsior grant provides free education that takes into account only hh income. When we get to the Ivy league and/or larger schools, the endowments are insane. Penn State is at $4.6b. Where is the push for the University to give back in any way, shape form? 7 minutes ago, shoshin said: You cut the deal you can, you make the payments you can. Banks in the US can't jail you for not paying your loan. Keep paying. Forgiveness is not the answer. By the way, I consolidated mine a long time ago and am still paying. My wife finished hers off a few years ago but her parents paid for her undergrad so she had a jump on me! You hooked a rich girl. Nice pull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER DOT COM Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Interesting perspective from this article about how much more of a burden the cost of education is now compared to 30 years ago http://graphics.wsj.com/marketwatch/college-debt-now-and-then/?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D61736770465453411501234938242485187284|MCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg|TS%3D1607702210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: What I struggle to understand is why it's always someone else's burden to carry. I did a quick google search--SUNY Buffalo has an endowment fund of nearly $800m. In NYS, for certain families, the Excelsior grant provides free education that takes into account only hh income. When we get to the Ivy league and/or larger schools, the endowments are insane. Penn State is at $4.6b. Where is the push for the University to give back in any way, shape form? Endowments are complicated. My daughter goes to an Ivy with an endowment in the multi-tens of billions. But that money has to be spent on the terms it was endowed, so it's not like a school can just willy-nilly fund scholarships. This is an annoying part of the endowment management game. The tuition mutually assured destruction game started when well-intentioned legislatures increased student loans to epic sizes. The thinking was that they made schools more reachable. Schools saw a bunch more cash so they built these cathedrals not to learning but to entertainment. And also administration. Unintended consequences. 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You hooked a rich girl. Nice pull. She was an only child with dedicated parents. No trust fund unfortunately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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