Trump's railing about schools reopening, so might as well talk about it

[Wacka]

7 hours ago, GOBUFFALO716 said:

How old are you?

63

[3rdnlng]

5 hours ago, Hedge said:

 

 

From your link:

 

Yet the union goes even farther than those requests, calling for "local support" in the form of defunded police departments and the shuttering of charter schools. 

Police violence "is a leading cause of death and trauma for Black people, and is a serious public health and moral issue," the union writes. The document calls on authorities to "shift the astronomical amount of money devoted to policing, to education and other essential needs such as housing and public health."

"Privately operated, publicly funded charter schools," meanwhile, "drain resources from district schools," the union states. The practice of "colocating" charter schools in existing structures, it continues, "adds students to campuses when we need to reduce the number of students to allow for physical distancing."

The union also demands the implementation of a federal Medicare-for-All program, several new state-level taxes on wealthy people, and a "federal bailout" of the school district. 

"The benefits to restarting physical schools must outweigh the risks, especially for our most vulnerable students and school communities," the document continues. 

"As it stands, the only people guaranteed to benefit from the premature physical reopening of schools amidst a rapidly accelerating pandemic are billionaires and the politicians they’ve purchased," it adds. 

No, it's not politics, sure. Time to give hints of firings ala Reagan's air traffic controller little embroglio for the poor oppressed federal employees. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

From your link:

 

Yet the union goes even farther than those requests, calling for "local support" in the form of defunded police departments and the shuttering of charter schools. 

Police violence "is a leading cause of death and trauma for Black people, and is a serious public health and moral issue," the union writes. The document calls on authorities to "shift the astronomical amount of money devoted to policing, to education and other essential needs such as housing and public health."

"Privately operated, publicly funded charter schools," meanwhile, "drain resources from district schools," the union states. The practice of "colocating" charter schools in existing structures, it continues, "adds students to campuses when we need to reduce the number of students to allow for physical distancing."

The union also demands the implementation of a federal Medicare-for-All program, several new state-level taxes on wealthy people, and a "federal bailout" of the school district. 

"The benefits to restarting physical schools must outweigh the risks, especially for our most vulnerable students and school communities," the document continues. 

"As it stands, the only people guaranteed to benefit from the premature physical reopening of schools amidst a rapidly accelerating pandemic are billionaires and the politicians they’ve purchased," it adds. 

No, it's not politics, sure. Time to give hints of firings ala Reagan's air traffic controller little embroglio for the poor oppressed federal employees. 

 

 

....and there are MANY interesting articles of late penned by AFRICAN-AMERICANS citing their support for charter schools as a critical option for students of promise to escape the woefully failing inner city schools.....all we EVER do is "shift an astronomical amount of money to education" and the results redefine abysmal.......politicians, YES on BOTH sides blindly throw money at problem(s) with NO accountability for improvement or desired results.....so when abysmal becomes MORE abysmal, they can say, "oh well at least we tried (COUGH)"....years ago I sat on the Budget Advisory Committee for my school district...at that time, the budget was $71 million (today it is >$130 mil)......after we got done identifying everything in the budget that was affixed and mandated by law/contract, we were down to about $250K in discretionary spending where we could make recommendations...a TOTAL waste of time.....

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....and there are MANY interesting articles of late penned by AFRICAN-AMERICANS citing their support for charter schools as a critical option for students of promise to escape the woefully failing inner city schools.....all we EVER do is "shift an astronomical amount of money to education" and the results redefine abysmal.......politicians, YES on BOTH sides blindly throw money at problem(s) with NO accountability for improvement or desired results.....so when abysmal becomes MORE abysmal, they can say, "oh well at least we tried (COUGH)"....years ago I sat on the Budget Advisory Committee for my school district...at that time, the budget was $71 million (today it is >$130 mil)......after we got done identifying everything in the budget that was affixed and mandated by law/contract, we were down to about $250K in discretionary spending where we could make recommendations...a TOTAL waste of time.....

Charter schools are the teacher's union boogeyman because they are afraid of competition. 

[Chef Jim]

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See I'm not actually afraid.

 

Other teachers are, though.

 

And I think those teachers are going to want to get the heck out the classroom fully once there are a few cases that pop up in our school.

So grocery store workers have all busted their ass to help us stay well stocked for four months now. They have taken all sorts of precautions to protect them. But teachers?  One of the most important professions in the history of the planet?  “We’re afraid!!!”  ?

9 hours ago, BillStime said:

Yup. Get the glorified babysitters back where they belong. 
 

 

Grocery store workers never stopped. What’s the deal with teachers?  They are some of the the most important workers out there in my mind.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Charter schools are the teacher's union boogeyman because they are afraid of competition. 

 

...EXACTLY.......and the Dems are bought and paid for by the Teachers' Unions.......resolving the stranglehold has about as much chance as term limits......

[transplantbillsfan]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I realize that.  My wife's a teacher and she's not apprehensive as she's middle aged and healthy but some of her coworkers are.  Some older teachers in her district are retiring early because they're in the "at risk" age range.  

 

So that's the answer?

 

Push out the old and in with the new?

 

(And again, it's not just "old" teachers who are at risk. I have a coworker with type 1 diabetes who is in her 30s... you sayin she should be forced out, too?)

 

And who replaces all these teachers with these waves of retirements?

 

I know here in Hawai'i there's a teacher shortage and, in turn, a sub shortage. There has been for years... I was hired on the mainland myself. Where are all these teachers-in-waiting ready to take over with this wave of retirements?

 

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Schools have reopened across Europe though and pretty successfully for the most part with some common sense social distancing measures in place. 

 

This is one of the most predictable and fallacious arguments circulating about so easily starting up schools.

 

"Europe did it, we can, too!"

 

Ya know what else Europe has done that we haven't come close to doing?

 

Flattened the curve.

 

This "let's be like Europe" argument with education is a hilarious contradiction to the arguments that boil down to "we're not Europe, we're 'Merica!"I've heard constantly over here for many months of why we can't have a stronger nation-wide response to get the virus under control and the curve flattened

 

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It's going to be a trial and error experiment in each district but keeping kids home shouldn't be an option unless there's a severe outbreak given the current evidence we have.  

 

Huh?

 

It's going to be trial and error but it's not an option to keep the kids home.

 

What does that even mean?

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

My biggest problem with allowing home schooling has always been the lack of interaction they have with other students 

 

100% agree

 

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Other professions are taking a risk in going back to work.  Why should it be different for teachers?  

 

They are.

 

How many of those professions center specifically around close physical social interaction for 6 or 7 hours a day where they are in a single room with around 100 people throughout the day and 20-35 people at a given time?

 

Can you name those professions and tell me which ones have fully gone back to work as usual?

Edited July 12, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

So grocery store workers have all busted their ass to help us stay well stocked for four months now. They have taken all sorts of precautions to protect them. But teachers?  One of the most important professions in the history of the planet?  “We’re afraid!!!”  ?

 

Well for one, teachers are, on average, older than workers in a grocery store

https://datausa.io/profile/naics/grocery-stores

https://datausa.io/profile/soc/elementary-middle-school-teachers

 

5 years is a pretty significant difference.

 

And you're absolutely right. Look at all the precautions they've taken!

 

If teachers were provided the same protections a grocery store clerk gets with clear plastic barriers set up between every single desk in their classroom, hand sanitizer for himself/herself as well as every single student along with disinfectants provided for consistent cleaning, that would be a great start and I bet you'd have a lot less pushback from teachers.

 

So tell me, who pays for that? That wouldn't be cheap.

 

6 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Grocery store workers never stopped. What’s the deal with teachers?  They are some of the the most important workers out there in my mind.  

 

Thanks for the flattery with a side dish of sarcasm.

 

See my response above to @Doc Brown about this. Grocery stores made quick adjustments with everything they implemented in part because they operate for profit, unlike schools.

 

Too many cooks in the kitchen who don't even know how to operate an oven when it comes to schools.

[Chef Jim]

21 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well for one, teachers are, on average, older than workers in a grocery store

https://datausa.io/profile/naics/grocery-stores

https://datausa.io/profile/soc/elementary-middle-school-teachers

 

5 years is a pretty significant difference.

 

And you're absolutely right. Look at all the precautions they've taken!

 

If teachers were provided the same protections a grocery store clerk gets with clear plastic barriers set up between every single desk in their classroom, hand sanitizer for himself/herself as well as every single student along with disinfectants provided for consistent cleaning, that would be a great start and I bet you'd have a lot less pushback from teachers.

 

So tell me, who pays for that? That wouldn't be cheap.

 

 

Thanks for the flattery with a side dish of sarcasm.

 

See my response above to @Doc Brown about this. Grocery stores made quick adjustments with everything they implemented in part because they operate for profit, unlike schools.

 

Too many cooks in the kitchen who don't even know how to operate an oven when it comes to schools.

Demand they put up the precautions. Either that or you don’t give a ***** about the kids. I’m probably at least 20 years older than you and I’d put the kids first.  I’d wear a mask, use hand sanitizer constantly and demand others so the same. Kind of like I’ve been doing since I went back to work full time nearly two months ago. Teachers sound like a pretty selfish lot. 
 

BTW what are all these precautions they took to keep grocery workers safe that you mentioned?  

Edited July 12, 2020 by Chef Jim

[3rdnlng]

45 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

So that's the answer?

 

Push out the old and in with the new?

 

(And again, it's not just "old" teachers who are at risk. I have a coworker with type 1 diabetes who is in her 30s... you sayin she should be forced out, too?)

 

And who replaces all these teachers with these waves of retirements?

 

I know here in Hawai'i there's a teacher shortage and, in turn, a sub shortage. There has been for years... I was hired on the mainland myself. Where are all these teachers-in-waiting ready to take over with this wave of retirements?

 

 

This is one of the most predictable and fallacious arguments circulating about so easily starting up schools.

 

"Europe did it, we can, too!"

 

Ya know what else Europe has done that we haven't come close to doing?

 

Flattened the curve.

 

This "let's be like Europe" argument with education is a hilarious contradiction to the arguments that boil down to "we're not Europe, we're 'Merica!"I've heard constantly over here for many months of why we can't have a stronger nation-wide response to get the virus under control and the curve flattened

 

 

Huh?

 

It's going to be trial and error but it's not an option to keep the kids home.

 

What does that even mean?

 

100% agree

 

 

They are.

 

How many of those professions center specifically around close physical social interaction for 6 or 7 hours a day where they are in a single room with around 100 people throughout the day and 20-35 people at a given time?

 

Can you name those professions and tell me which ones have fully gone back to work as usual?

Generally speaking we have flattened the curve, which was the original goal but the Left wants to keep moving the goal for their own political purposes. 

[Unforgiven]

L.A. teachers union says schools can't reopen unless charter schools get shut down, police defunded

They also want Medicare-for-All, a wealth tax, a federal bailout.

 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/education/la-teachers-union-says-schools-cant-reopen-unless-charter-schools-get

 

wtf.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Demand they put up the precautions. Either that or you don’t give a ***** about the kids. 

 

We have been demanding that dummy.

 

Ya know what the problem we run into is? Parents who refuse to make their kids wear masks and a DOE that accepts 3 ft as acceptable social distancing.

 

Among other things.

 

Your 1st 2 sentences are completely at odds with each other.

 

Teachers want to get back into the classroom. But safely. For everyone.

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

I’m probably at least 20 years older than you and I’d put the kids first.  I’d wear a mask, use hand sanitizer constantly and demand others so the same. Kind of like I’ve been doing since I went back to work full time nearly two months ago. Teachers sound like a pretty selfish lot. 
 

 

May I ask what you do for a living? Is your username instructive as far as your profession goes?

 

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

BTW what are all these precautions they took to keep grocery workers safe that you mentioned?  

 

Every grocery store I've gone to for months limits occupancy in the store to 50% or below typical occupancy, provides every employee with sanitizer and clerks with cleansers to clean the conveyor belt after each customer along with a clear plastic shield between clerk and customer.

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We have been demanding that dummy.

 

Ya know what the problem we run into is? Parents who refuse to make their kids wear masks and a DOE that accepts 3 ft as acceptable social distancing.

 

Among other things.

 

Your 1st 2 sentences are completely at odds with each other.

 

Teachers want to get back into the classroom. But safely. For everyone.

 

May I ask what you do for a living? Is your username instructive as far as your profession goes?

 

 

Every grocery store I've gone to for months limits occupancy in the store to 50% or below typical occupancy, provides every employee with sanitizer and clerks with cleansers to clean the conveyor belt after each customer along with a clear plastic shield between clerk and customer.

Make it mandatory that all students wear masks.  Provide them for those that don’t have them. We have boxes of disposable masks all over my office. We have hand sanitizer, disinfectant spray and paper towels all over. Again dude it’s not hard. 
 

And my user name has nothing to do with what I do for a living. 
 

And grocery stores here have not limited the number of customers. Only that we social distance while there. All they have provided are plexiglass/plastic partitions for them.  Last I checked they’re all still alive. ?
 

Your colleagues are freaking out and there is no need to. Get your asses in there and get it done. You have six weeks. Use some ***** ingenuity.  Other industries have figured it out. You’re the educated ones.  Do it!!  

[transplantbillsfan]

58 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Make it mandatory that all students wear masks.  Provide them for those that don’t have them. We have boxes of disposable masks all over my office. We have hand sanitizer, disinfectant spray and paper towels all over. Again dude it’s not hard. 

 

I'm sure you're a smart man, but you seem relatively clueless about the massive beurocracies that schools are--Public, Charter AND private.

 

You know how many interviews I've heard already from parents saying their kid has some underlying health condition that won't allow them to wear a mask all day? Some from private schools. And as much as you'd like to think if those private school kids won't wear masks, they're that much easier to kick out. Except they aren't. It all depends on who their parents are in many cases.

 

"Provide them" is a wonderful idea if we're actually provided with those things to provide the students. That's the issue public schools run into more than Private schools. I've heard some private schools investing in the very things needed to get ALL teachers back. 

 

Pay for those things for Public schools--you willing to pay for that Mr. Taxpayer?--and you likely won't get nearly as much pushback.

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And my user name has nothing to do with what I do for a living. 
 

 

Again, what do you do?

 

You said you work in an office.

 

How many people are in your office at a time?

 

How big is your office?

 

Is it a cubicle like setup with walls between everyone working?

 

Please describe it if you're willing.

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And grocery stores here have not limited the number of customers. Only that we social distance while there. All they have provided are plexiglass/plastic partitions for them.  Last I checked they’re all still alive. ?
 

 

Where do you live?

 

My Mom had to wait in a line for 20 minutes outside of Wegmans last week because they were doing just that.

 

Yes, plexiglass/plastic partitions for every desk, hand sanitizer for every student and cleaning supplies for every teacher along with extra masks for an enforceable "every student must wear a mask in class" policy.

 

Oh wait, but then you also mentioned the social distancing thing.

 

How do you get your 6 ft apart for all 30+ students in anywhere from a 400-800 square foot box?

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Your colleagues are freaking out and there is no need to. Get your asses in there and get it done. You have six weeks. Use some ***** ingenuity.  Other industries have figured it out. You’re the educated ones.  Do it!!  

 

No.

 

Not 6 weeks.

 

Students come back August 4th here.

 

And it's not ultimately the teachers driving these decisions.

[Reality Check]

 

The obvious solution is to stay home for the next 36 months and collect welfare...

 

No big deal...

 

The American people need to forget about working and living and just obey the government orders of the day...

 

Simple...

 

In 3 years we can leave our properties and everything will be great...

 

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

16 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sure you're a smart man, but you seem relatively clueless about the massive beurocracies that schools are--Public, Charter AND private.

 

You know how many interviews I've heard already from parents saying their kid has some underlying health condition that won't allow them to wear a mask all day? Some from private schools. And as much as you'd like to think if those private school kids won't wear masks, they're that much easier to kick out. Except they aren't. It all depends on who their parents are in many cases.

 

"Provide them" is a wonderful idea if we're actually provided with those things to provide the students. That's the issue public schools run into more than Private schools. I've heard some private schools investing in the very things needed to get ALL teachers back. 

 

Pay for those things for Public schools--you willing to pay for that Mr. Taxpayer?--and you likely won't get nearly as much pushback.

 

Again, what do you do?

 

You said you work in an office.

 

How many people are in your office at a time?

 

How big is your office?

 

Is it a cubicle like setup with walls between everyone working?

 

Please describe it if you're willing.

 

Where do you live?

 

My Mom had to wait in a line for 20 minutes outside of Wegmans last week because they were doing just that.

 

Yes, plexiglass/plastic partitions for every desk, hand sanitizer for every student and cleaning supplies for every teacher along with extra masks for an enforceable "every student must wear a mask in class" policy.

 

Oh wait, but then you also mentioned the social distancing thing.

 

How do you get your 6 ft apart for all 30+ students in anywhere from a 400-800 square foot box?

 

No.

 

Not 6 weeks.

 

Students come back August 4th here.

 

And it's not ultimately the teachers driving these decisions.

Geez so much to address so little time. If little Billy can’t wear a mask little Billy stays home. Sorry little Billy’s mom and dad. You’re on your own. 
 

Masks....$28 for a box of 50 on Amazon. Dig deep and buy some for the kids.  I imagine there is some creative students/parents/teachers.  Make a ***** ton of them!!  YouTube is your friend. 
 

My office is very conducive to working safely. We have put measures in place. I have 15 in a large office. Again we are lucky. But no walls between work stations but plenty of space. And with no clients coming in for now we have empty meeting rooms.  Our HR has busted their ass to her us back. 
 

You don’t need partition for every desk. Just one for the teacher. Your colleagues seem to be the ones concerned about their health not the kids. 
 

I live in Orange County  California. No lines to here

to get in the store. 
 

30 kids per classroom. Stagger then class. 10

per shift. Work 12 hours 6 days a week. Go to the local universities. They have to have lots of students who want to teach. Bring them in to help for credits. For Christ’s sake what have you guys been doing the past four months?  This should have been all figured out. 
 

Yes I’m not a teacher so it’s easier for me to come up with ideas for the classroom but at least I’m coming up with ideas. All you’re coming up with are excuses. 

[jrober38]

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Geez so much to address so little time. If little Billy can’t wear a mask little Billy stays home. Sorry little Billy’s mom and dad. You’re on your own. 
 

Masks....$28 for a box of 50 on Amazon. Dig deep and buy some for the kids.  I imagine there is some creative students/parents/teachers.  Make a ***** ton of them!!  YouTube is your friend. 
 

My office is very conducive to working safely. We have put measures in place. I have 15 in a large office. Again we are lucky. But no walls between work stations but plenty of space. And with no clients coming in for now we have empty meeting rooms.  Our HR has busted their ass to her us back. 
 

You don’t need partition for every desk. Just one for the teacher. Your colleagues seem to be the ones concerned about their health not the kids. 
 

I live in Orange County  California. No lines to here

to get in the store. 
 

30 kids per classroom. Stagger then class. 10

per shift. Work 12 hours 6 days a week. Go to the local universities. They have to have lots of students who want to teach. Bring them in to help for credits. For Christ’s sake what have you guys been doing the past four months?  This should have been all figured out. 
 

Yes I’m not a teacher so it’s easier for me to come up with ideas for the classroom but at least I’m coming up with ideas. All you’re coming up with are excuses. 

 

This is one of the most pie in the sky things I've ever seen.

[Chef Jim]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This is one of the most pie in the sky things I've ever seen.

Break it down. Tell me what things can’t be done and why. 

[Penfield45]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:24 AM, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

 

who the ***** cares about what isreal is doing 

[Paulus]

How about smaller class sizes? Better education for the kids. Limits exposure to viruses and sickness. Addressing a few problems at once.