Best QB in the AFC East

[mushypeaches]

9 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

 

 

My young padouin as stated in Star Wars, many state Marino, but Kelly kicked his ars for years because they only had super duper, meaning duper and clayton, no RB, no defense, and Kelly is one of the toughest QB's I've ever seen and that includes Favre who is one tough as nails QB.  I couldn't believe how he would wait when the rules were different and would get tattoed so he made that ball to Lofton, Beebe, and my favorite, Over the Middle, Reed.  If you are old enough to have watched every one of those games, you'd know what he meant to the AFCE and Buffalo.  Ask Chris Berman?

 

That is not to take away from how magical Marino was in his day.  Id still take Kelly six days a week and twice on Sunday.  Kelly Tough!

 

I am old enough to have seen all those games.  We all knew what Jim meant to the team from a toughness and leadership perspective, but it's difficult to see him as ever being a better pure QB than Marino.  We were all much happier rooting for Kelly too.  

[machine gun kelly]

9 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

 

I am old enough to have seen all those games.  We all knew what Jim meant to the team from a toughness and leadership perspective, but it's difficult to see him as ever being a better pure QB than Marino.  We were all much happier rooting for Kelly too.  

 

 

Fair enough peaches.

[MJS]

49 minutes ago, Billl said:

Darnold: 22 in 846 career passes

 

Allen:  21 in 649 career passes

Yeah, Allen threw a lot of INT's his first year as a starter in college. But he only had 6 his last year. Darnold only increased in his INT's and threw 13 has last year of college. Both threw too many overall, but 6 INT's is not bad. 13 is bad.

 

And how has this translated to the NFL? Allen's INT percent is 2.1%, but dropped from 3.8% to 2.0% from year one to year two. Darnold's INT percentage is 3.3%, dropping only to 2.9% in his second year. He's a pick machine. Allen throws too many INT's as well, but his biggest problem in this area was earlier in the year and dropped off significantly after that.

[C.Biscuit97]

In terms of what they played with, isn’t it Fitz?  Would Darnold or Allen done better with the Fins last year?  I highly doubt it.  
 

Fitz is a top 20 qb in the nfl.  He’s actually gotten better every year.  You have a ceiling with him but I think as of right now, he’s the best qb in the AFC East. 

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yeah, Allen threw a lot of INT's his first year as a starter in college. But he only had 6 his last year. Darnold only increased in his INT's and threw 13 has last year of college. Both threw too many overall, but 6 INT's is not bad. 13 is bad.

 

And how has this translated to the NFL? Allen's INT percent is 2.1%, but dropped from 3.8% to 2.0% from year one to year two. Darnold's INT percentage is 3.3%, dropping only to 2.9% in his second year. He's a pick machine. Allen throws too many INT's as well, but his biggest problem in this area was earlier in the year and dropped off significantly after that.

More is on Darnold to carry his team though.  Worse defense, worse oline, and he has to throw more.  
 

allen was a game manager last year.  If he was given more reign, he would throw more ints.  

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The talent comparison between the two isn't even close... Fitz just processes a lot quicker than Allen at this point in both their careers.... I'd still take Allen over Fitz in a heartbeat. Not even a question. 

If Fitz has Allen’s arm, he would be all time great qb.

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

More is on Darnold to carry his team though.  Worse defense, worse oline, and he has to throw more.  
 

allen was a game manager last year.  If he was given more reign, he would throw more ints.  

 

Yeah, that's just speculation based on nothing.

[BobChalmers]

5 hours ago, Bulldog said:

 

If we could have ever claimed to have the best QB in the AFC East - it would certainly be very few times (at best).

 

Here is a year for you  -- 1980. The AFC East Quarterbacks were:

 

Jets -- Richard Todd

Dolphins - David Woodley

Patriots -- Steve Grogan

Colts (yes, for you youngsters out there - the Colts in the AFC East back then) - Bert Jones

Bills - Joe Ferguson

 

I think that the 1980 version of Joe Ferguson might have been the best of this group - although I always had a high opinion of Bert Jones.

 

Yeah - they were close but I'd give the edge to Jones in that era.  Btw this was my young teen era where I really started being a big Bills fan. 

[Dopey]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

In terms of what they played with, isn’t it Fitz?  Would Darnold or Allen done better with the Fins last year?  I highly doubt it.  
 

Fitz is a top 20 qb in the nfl.  He’s actually gotten better every year.  You have a ceiling with him but I think as of right now, he’s the best qb in the AFC East. 

More is on Darnold to carry his team though.  Worse defense, worse oline, and he has to throw more.  
 

allen was a game manager last year.  If he was given more reign, he would throw more ints.  

If Fitz has Allen’s arm, he would be all time great qb.

This is what I what basing my post on. Fitz played on a team who's front office was TRYING to tank/rebuild. They got rid of a ton of talent. This year, we are loaded. If we had Fitz on this team, he would easily get a ton of love as the best in the AFCE. Having said this, it looks like Miami is going to be a better team compared to last year. Fitz will surprise a lot of folks this year. I see them going 4-2 in the AFCE next year. They sweep the Jets and split with us and NE. 

[MJS]

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

In terms of what they played with, isn’t it Fitz?  Would Darnold or Allen done better with the Fins last year?  I highly doubt it.  
 

Fitz is a top 20 qb in the nfl.  He’s actually gotten better every year.  You have a ceiling with him but I think as of right now, he’s the best qb in the AFC East. 

More is on Darnold to carry his team though.  Worse defense, worse oline, and he has to throw more.  
 

allen was a game manager last year.  If he was given more reign, he would throw more ints.  

If Fitz has Allen’s arm, he would be all time great qb.

 

Fitzpatrick makes bad decisions all the time in clutch situations. He is a guaranteed INT when the game is on the line. That's not because of his arm talent. That's decision making. He's a risky gunslinger who folds when it matters most. Did you forget what it was like having him as a QB?

 

Nothing against him. He's an awesome person and a funny guy. He's the best backup in the league. But there's a reason he is a journeyman QB and has never gotten a team to the playoffs. Arm talent is not that reason.

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

This is what I what basing my post on. Fitz played on a team who's front office was TRYING to tank/rebuild. They got rid of a ton of talent. This year, we are loaded. If we had Fitz on this team, he would easily get a ton of love as the best in the AFCE. Having said this, it looks like Miami is going to be a better team compared to last year. Fitz will surprise a lot of folks this year. I see them going 4-2 in the AFCE next year. They sweep the Jets and split with us and NE. 

They will split with NE and the Jets and get swept by us and will be nowhere near .500. Take it to the bank. I'll own up if I'm wrong.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Fitzpatrick makes bad decisions all the time in clutch situations. He is a guaranteed INT when the game is on the line. That's not because of his arm talent. That's decision making. He's a risky gunslinger who folds when it matters most. Did you forget what it was like having him as a QB?

 

Nothing against him. He's an awesome person and a funny guy. He's the best backup in the league. But there's a reason he is a journeyman QB and has never gotten a team to the playoffs. Arm talent is not that reason.

They will split with NE and the Jets and get swept by us and will be nowhere near .500. Take it to the bank. I'll own up if I'm wrong.

If Fitz played with the defenses we had the last years, he would have made the playoffs.  His int % last year was lower than Allen’s on a team that was openly tanking.  
 

I agree you are limited as a franchise with him as your starter and you definitely take the younger guys. But based on last year and how they elevated their situations, I think Fitz did more for his team than any of the other qbs in the division. 

[MJS]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If Fitz played with the defenses we had the last years, he would have made the playoffs.  His int % last year was lower than Allen’s on a team that was openly tanking.  
 

I agree you are limited as a franchise with him as your starter and you definitely take the younger guys. But based on last year and how they elevated their situations, I think Fitz did more for his team than any of the other qbs in the division. 

Yeah, Fitz is good at rallying the troops, but he is .500 kind of QB, if that. That's why he'll always have a job but he'll never be a preferred starter for any team in the league.

[Billl]

58 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Fitzpatrick makes bad decisions all the time in clutch situations. He is a guaranteed INT when the game is on the line. That's not because of his arm talent. That's decision making. He's a risky gunslinger who folds when it matters most.

Dolphins won 5 games last year when they had no business winning any (and would have won against the Bills week 1 of their kicker didn’t miss everything).  4 of those 5 wins were due to game winning drives by Fitzpatrick.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Dolphins won 5 games last year when they had no business winning any (and would have won against the Bills week 1 of their kicker didn’t miss everything).  4 of those 5 wins were due to game winning drives by Fitzpatrick.

Tell me. Does winning 5 games make you a good team or a bad team in the NFL?

[GreggTX]

Well, of all the starting QB's in the AFCE last season, Josh was 3rd in passing efficiency behind Brady and Fitzpatrick.Fitz, Josh and Darnold were all within a couple points of each other while Brady was far ahead of all 3. Depending on what the Pats do at QB, Allen could be anywhere from 1st to 4th this season.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Tell me. Does winning 5 games make you a good team or a bad team in the NFL?

Again, if he was on the Bills, he would have been in the playoffs.  That’s kinda the point.  None of these QBs in the afc East are guys who out the team on their back.  Allen played with the 3rd best defense.
 

Fitz did as good as any non qb in the division with one of the worst rosters to start a season in a long time.  Football is the ultimate team game.  Allen and Darnold would have looked worse than Fitz in Miami last year.   

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Again, if he was on the Bills, he would have been in the playoffs.  That’s kinda the point.  None of these QBs in the afc East are guys who out the team on their back.  Allen played with the 3rd best defense.
 

Fitz did as good as any non qb in the division with one of the worst rosters to start a season in a long time.  Football is the ultimate team game.  Allen and Darnold would have looked worse than Fitz in Miami last year.   

That's guessing. You can't actually state that as fact. Maybe the Bills would have missed the playoffs with Fitz at QB. Maybe all the 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives that Allen put together turn into 4th quarter INT's and game losing drives. There's no way anyone could know that.

And no, I don't believe that Allen and Darnold would have looked worse than Fitz. Allen and Darnold are better QB's, in my opinion.

Edited April 20, 2020 by MJS

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

That's guessing. You can't actually state that as fact. Maybe the Bills would have missed the playoffs with Fitz at QB. Maybe all the 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives that Allen put together turn into 4th quarter INT's and game losing drives. There's no way anyone could know that.

And no, I don't believe that Allen and Darnold would have looked worse than Fitz. Allen and Darnold are better QB's, in my opinion.

I completely disagree but that’s my opinion.  It’s not a coincidence that Fitz does better than every qb he is supposed to backup.  He is a above average qb who lacks physical gifts.  There isn’t a doubt in my mind he is a better passer than Allen right now.  I think he would have been a disaster in Miami. As would most young QBs would have been.  It’s an awful situation.  
 

but obviously long term, you take the younger guys.  But it’s not crazy to think one or both might not ending up throwing 210 tds like Fitz.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I completely disagree but that’s my opinion.  It’s not a coincidence that Fitz does better than every qb he is supposed to backup.  He is a above average qb who lacks physical gifts.  There isn’t a doubt in my mind he is a better passer than Allen right now.  I think he would have been a disaster in Miami. As would most young QBs would have been.  It’s an awful situation.  
 

but obviously long term, you take the younger guys.  But it’s not crazy to think one or both might not ending up throwing 210 tds like Fitz.

I also don't think either of them will have a 23 INT season like Fitz has, and I believe both of them will end their careers with a better INT percentage than 3.4%, especially since both of them are already below that mark after only two seasons in the league. And that's saying something because both of them, especially Darnold, have had INT problems.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

I also don't think either of them will have a 23 INT season like Fitz has, and I believe both of them will end their careers with a better INT percentage than 3.4%, especially since both of them are already below that mark after only two seasons in the league. And that's saying something because both of them, especially Darnold, have had INT problems.

Because they would be benched long before that.  But if you look at Fitz’s career, he’s gotten better at taking care of the ball.  His int % last year was lower than Allen’s and Darnold’s in a much, much worse situation.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because they would be benched long before that.  But if you look at Fitz’s career, he’s gotten better at taking care of the ball.  His int % last year was lower than Allen’s and Darnold’s in a much, much worse situation.

No, actually it was higher than Allen's. Allen was at 2.0% and Fitz was at 2.6%. It was even far higher the previous year in Tampa than Allen's as a rookie.

[Alphadawg7]

Someone should tell Stephen A that Jordan and Shaq are not Buffalo Bills.  

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Again, if he was on the Bills, he would have been in the playoffs.  That’s kinda the point.  None of these QBs in the afc East are guys who out the team on their back.  Allen played with the 3rd best defense.
 

Fitz did as good as any non qb in the division with one of the worst rosters to start a season in a long time.  Football is the ultimate team game.  Allen and Darnold would have looked worse than Fitz in Miami last year.   

 

Disagree.  I dont think we make the playoffs with Fitz.  Did he get hot for a little bit with the Dolphins, sure...but no guarantee he does that here and he is NOT a good QB.  He is a great backup who can win some games, but he is mistake prone.  And we had a LOT of close games and Allen went for 21 TDs to just 3 turnovers from week 5 on.  NO WAY Fitz only has 3 turnovers over that stretch and we don't win 10 games with more turnovers.  

 

So, sorry man...Allen is better than Fitz already, and is the best QB in this division right now.  We would have missed the playoffs last year with Fitz with his turnovers and inconsistency IMHO.