If the Bills had had Diggs in 2019

[Shaw66]

26 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

saying that isn the Bills had Diggs they absolutely without a doubt win the Texans game?  No, you were not.

 

The fact is that after the Texans game, virtually every Bills fan, including Brandon Beane, was saying the Bills need help at receiver.   They weren't saying the Bills need help at QB, they weren't saying the Billsneed help at DT.   The only thing Bills fans were saying almost in unison was "the Bills need a receiver."   

 

So, no, at the end of the Texans game I didn't say "the Bills would have won if they had had Diggs."   But I was saying "the Bills need a receiver," and if you'd asked me if Diggs would do, I would have said "are you kidding?" 

 

And I would have said, and I'll say today, the Bills would have beaten the Texans with Diggs in the lineup.  He would have had the same kind of impact on the game that Hopkins had.   A big catch or two, some other nice completions, draw the attention of the defense.   The guy is a special talent, and it's amazing to think that people can't see how that kind of talent impacts every game.  

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

while odds are he performs better you just don’t know. Is Diggs double covered and josh forces it in for an INT instead of an incompletion?

 

im 100% on board we are a better team with him. I’m not full steam on picking plays to flip and saying “see, that simple” essentially for why we would definitely win with him. 

Of course nothing is for sure, and all sorts of things could have happened to allow the Texans still to win.   But if you're going to pick one position (other than QB) where a superior talent was likely to change the outcome of the game, it's probably wide out.   As others have said, Allen spent the fourth quarter looking for a receiver to make a play.  Diggs is a playmaker.  

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

LOL ok doc...in "yards per game" he was 11th.

 

In the games where he didn't;'t have to complete with Thielen for targets, he had 2 games over 80 yards.  Thielen by the way, in the 2 previous seasons, was an ACTAUL top 10 WR in yards and catches. 

 

Again, the bolded part I didn't say.  But keep repeating and you'll get that big bad straw man!   Were you really watching the Vikings playoffs and saying that isn the Bills had Diggs they absolutely without a doubt win the Texans game?  No, you were not.

 

2017 Vikings-Saints game is calling....and 2019 Vikings-Saint game answers and says:  "what do you want?".

 

Do the math again, WEO.  His final season stats put him at 15th among wide receivers (hint: not including TEs) with 1,130 yards, but that was in 15 games, which works out to 1,205 for the season.  Only 3 wide receivers had more so he's obviously below them.  Of the guys from 4-14, 7 played a full 16 game season.  Hence...  

 

And nice try but in the 5 games that Diggs played and Thielen was out (they were both out for the season finale), Diggs had over 92 yards in 3 of them and he had 49 in another.

 

And did I watch that game and say I wanted Diggs specifically?  No.  But I did say that someone better would have won that game.  Diggs is that someone. 

 

They won the 2019 Vikings-Saints game.  So...

[Cripple Creek]

On 4/6/2020 at 12:46 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

I was starting my sophomore year in college all through training camp at receiver.  Having possibly the best camp of anyone on the team.  Spectacular catches.  Coaches pulling me aside, telling me the offense is going through me and I was going to have 100 catches easy.  Well, we had a play that was an automatic audible.  Well, I completely blanked and ran the same play wrong 3 times in a row!! After that, I was Zay Jones.  Started dropping everything and lost my starting job.  Ended up switching to defense and while I had some moments there, it wasn’t the same.  If that play doesn’t happen in practice, I probably dominate.  Eventually I get drafted (maybe by the Bills who take a chance on a local kid).  I become good friends with Gronk, offseason hangout buddies in WNY.  Gronk takes me to a Hollywood party.  I meet Margot Robbie.  We fall madly in love.  Get married, 2 kids, 2 dogs, beachfront place in Malibu.  I’m earning millions but my wife makes even more than me! Eventually, things happen with our Colombian nanny and Margot and I divorce.  I struggle post nfl career to not being constantly praised and with my injuries, I get hooked on pills because weed is the devil’s lettuce.  Well a couple of prison stints later, I become clean and go on talk shows.  The networks notice and I get a Romo type deal to be a commentator.  And then at a SB party, I met a 25 year old upcoming pop star and boom, 2nd marriage and 4 more kids.  Life is great. ?

Have you recently turned yourself into a cynical old man sounding SOB or have you always been that way but you hid it from us for a time?

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Do the math again, WEO.  His final season stats put him at 15th among wide receivers (hint: not including TEs) with 1,130 yards, but that was in 15 games, which works out to 1,205 for the season.  Only 3 wide receivers had more so he's obviously below them.  Of the guys from 4-14, 7 played a full 16 game season.  Hence...  

 

And nice try but in the 5 games that Diggs played and Thielen was out (they were both out for the season finale), Diggs had over 92 yards in 3 of them and he had 49 in another.

 

And did I watch that game and say I wanted Diggs specifically?  No.  But I did say that someone better would have won that game.  Diggs is that someone. 

 

They won the 2019 Vikings-Saints game.  So...

 

 

While ignoring Diggs (to his nationally televised displeasure).  

 

It wouldn't "work out to 1205 for the season" if he was posting 49, 25, 19 per game.

 

Yes, if you eliminate the TEs that were better receivers last year,  Diggs moves hip from 17 to 15 in yards.  They only count the stats you accumulated, doc, not the ones doc says they "work out to"...

 

Some better tacklers would have won that game.  I'll agree with you there..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The fact is that after the Texans game, virtually every Bills fan, including Brandon Beane, was saying the Bills need help at receiver.   They weren't saying the Bills need help at QB, they weren't saying the Billsneed help at DT.   The only thing Bills fans were saying almost in unison was "the Bills need a receiver."   

 

So, no, at the end of the Texans game I didn't say "the Bills would have won if they had had Diggs."   But I was saying "the Bills need a receiver," and if you'd asked me if Diggs would do, I would have said "are you kidding?" 

 

And I would have said, and I'll say today, the Bills would have beaten the Texans with Diggs in the lineup.  He would have had the same kind of impact on the game that Hopkins had.   A big catch or two, some other nice completions, draw the attention of the defense.   The guy is a special talent, and it's amazing to think that people can't see how that kind of talent impacts every game.  

 

He is a big talent and already the best guy in the Bills roster.

 

But did that happen in his own playoff games?  TheVikings didn't bother with him in the Saints game and won.   He had 2 catches all game against the 49ers and a TD in a blowout loss.  4 catches.  2 games. 

 

But he was going to be the special sauce for the Bills playoff game guaranteeing a win?  I don 't get that.  It's possible, but no one can claim it would have happened without question.  

[CookieG]

On 4/5/2020 at 9:45 PM, Happy Gilmore said:

 

It's really not a schtick, but merely pointing out that Josh had real problems with longer throws where he routinely overthrew his receivers.  The cause for this is up for debate.

 

If we're talking about short and medium (up to 20 yards) having Diggs would have helped others get open.  One thing I don't want to see this coming season is Diggs used as a decoy by Daboll to try and get his boy Foster going.  I want Diggs to be used like the weapon he is.  Maybe unnecessary worrying on my part, but wanted to bring that up.

 

Going back to the longer throws, if Josh can get his accuracy squared away, Diggs (in conjunction with John Brown) will stretch the field which will benefit all of the receivers.

no, its not a schtick at all and it downplays the importance that the deep game is to Diggs' overall success.

 

He might have been the premier deep threat in the game last year. He led the league in 40+ yard receptions and from what I've seen, they weren't 10-15 yard throws that he took to the house.

 

How important was his deep game?

 

By my count, it accounted for over 500 receiving yards and 4 of his 5 TD's. (not including a bomb he caught in the SF playoff game).

 

Take away his deep catches last year and you have a pretty pedestrian 600+ yards.

 

Watching his highlight reel, tbh...Allen of 2019 misses on most of those throws.

 

 

 

Why? Because he was missing on these throws most of the year. If Brown isn't able to run under them, Diggs won't either.

 

To me, the best offseason move I've seen is that Allen is spending time with his QB guru and is specifically working on that part of his game.

 

Unless he improves his deep game, you are wasting the talents of 2 talented WRs.

[Doc]

46 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

While ignoring Diggs (to his nationally televised displeasure).  

 

It wouldn't "work out to 1205 for the season" if he was posting 49, 25, 19 per game.

 

Yes, if you eliminate the TEs that were better receivers last year,  Diggs moves hip from 17 to 15 in yards.  They only count the stats you accumulated, doc, not the ones doc says they "work out to"...

 

Some better tacklers would have won that game.  I'll agree with you there..

 

Cousins only targeted him 3 times in that game.  Like I've been saying, you can't catch what's not thrown your way...

 

Don't get bogged-down in minutiae.  I said "yards/game" initially, and then used the extrapolated 1,205 yards to make the yards/game calculation quicker.  If a player had fewer than 1205 yards and played a full 16 games, Diggs moved up a notch.

 

And the discussion was wide receivers.  But if you want to include TEs and even Darren Waller's aberration/career year, he's still 9th.

 

Lots of things would have won that game.  Better WR play was definitely one of them.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Doc

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

im 100% on board we are a better team with him. I’m not full steam on picking plays to flip and saying “see, that simple” essentially for why we would definitely win with him. 

 

I generally agree, I'm not trying to over simplify things. Football is too complicated to hypothetically flip plays that easily. And I'm not going to retroactively increase our win total or anything like that. But I think the playoff game in particular was one where our offense was let down by the receivers more than anything else. If you add Diggs, irrespective of flipping plays you now have a receiver on the field that is known for consistency. It also would mean Brown would have had more favorable coverage and other trickle down effects. Allen might not have felt the need to force things in the 2nd half if we took a more commanding lead in the 1st half. So I do believe that even if Allen doesn't progress at all, solely the addition of Diggs takes us from a wildcard loser to a wildcard winner. To become legitimate championship contenders Allen will need to take the next step too.

[DuckyBoys]

lets also remember Diggs played in a  conservative rushing based offense  Vikings had one of the fewest pass attempts in the nfl last year  Kirk Cousins was not squeezing balls into get him involved.  Saying he's not a top 10 wr based just on stats is not giving the man credit  Go watch some tape, he's pretty damned good

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As an aside, I think you're unfair to Duke.  He wasn't a CFL castoff.   He led the league; he was a CFL graduate, not a drop out.   Still, that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't an impact player in 2019.  

 

Nothing against Duke but he will have trouble making a roster this year. He was a fun story. But it turns out his hands aren't quite as good as advertised. If he catches that corner pass in the endzone against Houston I'd be rooting for him to make the team. If he can't make that catch and he has well below average athleticism he just isn't an NFL player. But this is where Diggs has the cascade effect. Assuming our receivers stay healthy we won't be fielding bottom of the barrel receivers for any snaps this year. I'm a big believer that adding top end talent helps your second tier talent shine. I wouldn't be surprised to see John Brown hit the same receiving yards this year.

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

lets also remember Diggs played in a  conservative rushing based offense  Vikings had one of the fewest pass attempts in the nfl last year  Kirk Cousins was not squeezing balls into get him involved.  Saying he's not a top 10 wr based just on stats is not giving the man credit  Go watch some tape, he's pretty damned good

 

Yeah.  Cousins was something like 2nd-lowest (behind Jackson) among full-time starters.  And as I showed above, Diggs is top-10 based on per game stats.

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

The fact is that after the Texans game, virtually every Bills fan, including Brandon Beane, was saying the Bills need help at receiver.   They weren't saying the Bills need help at QB, they weren't saying the Billsneed help at DT.   The only thing Bills fans were saying almost in unison was "the Bills need a receiver."   

 

So, no, at the end of the Texans game I didn't say "the Bills would have won if they had had Diggs."   But I was saying "the Bills need a receiver," and if you'd asked me if Diggs would do, I would have said "are you kidding?" 

 

And I would have said, and I'll say today, the Bills would have beaten the Texans with Diggs in the lineup.  He would have had the same kind of impact on the game that Hopkins had.   A big catch or two, some other nice completions, draw the attention of the defense.   The guy is a special talent, and it's amazing to think that people can't see how that kind of talent impacts every game.  

I agree.  Its not 1 + 1 = 2 with adding Diggs wins us more games.  The lack of a premier talent at Wr really only showed up a few times.  I would say both NE games, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and in the playoffs.  To be a contender a legit number 1 wr was a nessecity.  Will Diggs lead the league in Tds, yards, catches?  Probaly not.  Can he ruitenly beat press man.  His pressence helps the other wrs and weapons by being a lower priority to stop, thereby presenting them with more favorable matchups.

[C.Biscuit97]

On 4/6/2020 at 4:45 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

The Vikings scored 10 points.  Bills scored almost twice that.

 

Assuming one more WR would have been the difference between winning and losing that game is not "patently absurd"?  Come on, doc.  

Yeah, this is kinda of insane.  What if the Texans didn’t trade Clowney??? What if Watt was fully healthy??? What if the Titans didn’t have an awful kicker?  What if OJ didn’t go over to Nicole’s house?
 

i mean it’s the offseason.  But you would drive yourself crazy with all this stuff. 

2 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

lets also remember Diggs played in a  conservative rushing based offense  Vikings had one of the fewest pass attempts in the nfl last year  Kirk Cousins was not squeezing balls into get him involved.  Saying he's not a top 10 wr based just on stats is not giving the man credit  Go watch some tape, he's pretty damned good

Cousins had 4,300 and 30 tds the year before.  Diggs is one of the best route runners in the nfl and a very good receiver.  We are definitely overrating him a bit though.  Great addition no doubt though.  I just wish it would have be Hopkins.

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, this is kinda of insane.  What if the Texans didn’t trade Clowney??? What if Watt was fully healthy??? What if the Titans didn’t have an awful kicker?  What if OJ didn’t go over to Nicole’s house?
 

i mean it’s the offseason.  But you would drive yourself crazy with all this stuff.

 

That's a big part of why we're here: speculation.  If all we did was just talk about what happened, it would be a boring place.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That's a big part of why we're here: speculation.  If all we did was just talk about what happened, it would be a boring place.

True.  

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

But he was going to be the special sauce for the Bills playoff game guaranteeing a win?  

Oh, for Pete's sake.   Nobody's guaranteeing a win.   We're just having a conversation, and almost everyone can see what's plainly obvious - a receiver with excellent ability to get open on short routes, with excellent deep speed and with excellent ability to win 50-50 balls was probably the single biggest improvement the Bills could have used against Houston.   It's not that hard. 

 

You want me to imagine all the things that could still have gone wrong.  I could do that, but it would be a colossal waste of time.   You can spend time on it if you'd like.   So sure, maybe he'll get a bad case of BO and won't be permitted in the receiver room, or maybe he won't like beef on weck and the fans will boo him and he'll give everything the bird.   Maybe he will be unhappy because he isn't getting enough targets, maybe he can't play in the cold, maybe, maybe, maybe.  

 

All we're trying to do here is talk about what kind of impact Diggs is likely to have on the Bills offense.   And the answer, whatever you may think, is that there's a good chance he will have a significant positive impact, because he is a proven, quality NFL receiver in the prime of his career.   

 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Nothing against Duke but he will have trouble making a roster this year. He was a fun story. But it turns out his hands aren't quite as good as advertised. If he catches that corner pass in the endzone against Houston I'd be rooting for him to make the team. If he can't make that catch and he has well below average athleticism he just isn't an NFL player. But this is where Diggs has the cascade effect. Assuming our receivers stay healthy we won't be fielding bottom of the barrel receivers for any snaps this year. I'm a big believer that adding top end talent helps your second tier talent shine. I wouldn't be surprised to see John Brown hit the same receiving yards this year.

I agree with all of this.   Williams did disappoint last season, especially on the contested catches.  That's where I thought he could excel.  It's also clear he disappointed because he couldn't work his way onto the field.   He just never showed enough to contribute.   

 

And I agree about Diggs' impact.  We thought Foster, McKenzie and Williams were on the hotseat last season.   This season their roster spots are in big trouble.   Each of them has to add some real value somewhere, because they aren't likely to be critical to the passing game.   I think McKenzie has shown he's limited as a receiver (which is different from his ability on the jet sweep), Foster's been limited all around except maybe special teams.   Williams wasn't able to add value anywhere.   Diggs' arrival sent a message to all three of them - get better or move on.

[DuckyBoys]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with all of this.   Williams did disappoint last season, especially on the contested catches.  That's where I thought he could excel.  It's also clear he disappointed because he couldn't work his way onto the field.   He just never showed enough to contribute.   

 

And I agree about Diggs' impact.  We thought Foster, McKenzie and Williams were on the hotseat last season.   This season their roster spots are in big trouble.   Each of them has to add some real value somewhere, because they aren't likely to be critical to the passing game.   I think McKenzie has shown he's limited as a receiver (which is different from his ability on the jet sweep), Foster's been limited all around except maybe special teams.   Williams wasn't able to add value anywhere.   Diggs' arrival sent a message to all three of them - get better or move on.

 

 

I hope the Bills carry a wr #4, wr #5  who can contribute besides just special teams this year

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said:

 

 

I hope the Bills carry a wr #4, wr #5  who can contribute besides just special teams this year

At least a #4. Not sure he's on the roster today.  There's a limit to how many jet sweeps you can run. 

[SCBills]

On 4/5/2020 at 10:12 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Defense collapsed against the Texans. Another WR would not have made a difference last year in the playoffs. Diggs maybe gets them one more win but they still are in the WC spot.

Diggs will be huge in 2020 when the schedule is much harder.

Does Diggs catch the throw to Duke that should’ve been a TD?

 

Does Diggs make the sideline grab Brown didn’t keep in-bounds?

 

If either of those plays are made, we likely win.  Even with the defense falling apart in the second half. 
 

It’s amazing the revisionist history on that game..  Allen was pretty dang good up until he started forcing it late in game (when no one was stepping up for him).  I honestly have no clue how anyone could think a legit #1, who slides Brown into a high level #2, doesn’t make a massive difference....especially for a young QB in his second season/first playoff game.  
 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by SCBills

[Shaw66]

13 hours ago, SCBills said:

Does Diggs catch the throw to Duke that should’ve been a TD?

 

Does Diggs make the sideline grab Brown didn’t keep in-bounds?

 

If either of those plays are made, we likely win.  Even with the defense falling apart in the second half. 
 

It’s amazing the revisionist history on that game..  Allen was pretty dang good up until he started forcing it late in game (when no one was stepping up for him).  I honestly have no clue how anyone could think a legit #1, who slides Brown into a high level #2, doesn’t make a massive difference....especially for a young QB in his second season/first playoff game.  
 

 

If you listen to the Beane interview with Florio, at the end of the interview he says almost exactly what you say here.   He says what the Bills needed in that game was what they needed all season long - to score more points.   And what they needed to do that was a wideout to combine with Brown and Beasley.  He tried to get one during the season but couldn't.  He says it was not Allen.  Yes, Allen tried to do too much, but he did it because he wants to win and nothing else was working.  

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Cousins only targeted him 3 times in that game.  Like I've been saying, you can't catch what's not thrown your way...

 

Don't get bogged-down in minutiae.  I said "yards/game" initially, and then used the extrapolated 1,205 yards to make the yards/game calculation quicker.  If a player had fewer than 1205 yards and played a full 16 games, Diggs moved up a notch.

 

And the discussion was wide receivers.  But if you want to include TEs and even Darren Waller's aberration/career year, he's still 9th.

 

Lots of things would have won that game.  Better WR play was definitely one of them.

 

 

11th.

 

And you're assuming he would have gotten at least 75 yards (his average) in that last game he didn't play---yet he only had that many or more in 7 of the 15 regular season games he played....and barely had that many, combined, in his 2 playoff games.  So his "yards per game" for the games he played is now 71.

[Mr. WEO]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 6:53 PM, GG said:

And a tying TD vs Baltimore and at least one more TD vs Texans.

 

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 4:48 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

We would've beaten Houston. That much I can easily predict. 

 

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 5:07 PM, Doc said:

 

 Bills-Texans game where just 1 more point would have won the game for the Bills in regulation.  Claiming Diggs wouldn't have even provided that is patently absurd and you know it.

 

18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Oh, for Pete's sake.   Nobody's guaranteeing a win.   We're just having a conversation, and almost everyone can see what's plainly obvious - a receiver with excellent ability to get open on short routes, with excellent deep speed and with excellent ability to win 50-50 balls was probably the single biggest improvement the Bills could have used against Houston.   It's not that hard. 

 

You want me to imagine all the things that could still have gone wrong.  I could do that, but it would be a colossal waste of time.   You can spend time on it if you'd like.   So sure, maybe he'll get a bad case of BO and won't be permitted in the receiver room, or maybe he won't like beef on weck and the fans will boo him and he'll give everything the bird.   Maybe he will be unhappy because he isn't getting enough targets, maybe he can't play in the cold, maybe, maybe, maybe.  

 

All we're trying to do here is talk about what kind of impact Diggs is likely to have on the Bills offense.   And the answer, whatever you may think, is that there's a good chance he will have a significant positive impact, because he is a proven, quality NFL receiver in the prime of his career.   

 

 

 

Yes they were.

 

No one here that I see is arguing with the second bolded part.  Certainly not me as is documented.

23 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're wrong about that.   Over his five seasons in the league, he's clearly one of the ten best.    365 catches for 4263 yards.    70+ catches, 800+ yards a season.  

 

Clearly better are Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, Hopkins.  Those three guys have consistently put up 1200-1400 yard seasons.

 

 More or less a statistical push are Keenan Allen, Amari Cooper, Mike Evans and OBJ.   Over five years they aren't much different.   

 

Definitely top 10.  

 

Diggs v.  OBJ or Evans would be "a statistical push"....only if you did not use statistics.

[Doc]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

11th.

 

And you're assuming he would have gotten at least 75 yards (his average) in that last game he didn't play---yet he only had that many or more in 7 of the 15 regular season games he played....and barely had that many, combined, in his 2 playoff games.  So his "yards per game" for the games he played is now 71.

 

I'm not the one assuming anything: you are.  I have been saying "yards/game" which is the most important stat and better than opining "well he probably wouldn't have gotten 71 yards in that last game."  Hell I could do the same for players that had more yards and also played in just 15 games and say he ranks even higher, but I won't.  But since you seem to enjoy the abuse, he was rested for the season ender against Chicago.  Guess what he got in the earlier matchup against them in Chicago?  108 yards. 

 

No, he was 8th among WRs, which was the discussion.  Do the math yourself instead of relying on some faulty website that gives you wrong numbers, and doesn't tell you basic information like how well he performed in games without Thielen and how many yards he got against Chicago earlier in the season, although I suspect that latter 2 are errors on your part more than anything.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 And the answer, whatever you may think, is that there's a good chance he will have a significant positive impact, because he is a proven, quality NFL receiver in the prime of his career. 

 

No one here that I see is arguing with the second bolded part.  Certainly not me as is documented.

 

Diggs v.  OBJ or Evans would be "a statistical push"....only if you did not use statistics.

  

 

Good.  It's good to know you agree about that. 

 

I don't know what you mean by the OBJ  Evans comment.   I, for one, do consider them a push.   I'd take Diggs over OBJ because of their relative attitudes, and I'd call Evans a push because Diggs is more gifted physically (he benefits from being smaller), but Evans makes up for it with sheer will, so far as I can tell.  

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I'm not the one assuming anything: you are.  I have been saying "yards/game" which is the most important stat and better than opining "well he probably wouldn't have gotten 71 yards in that last game."  Hell I could do the same for players that had more yards and also played in just 15 games and say he ranks even higher, but I won't.  But since you seem to enjoy the abuse, he was rested for the season ender against Chicago.  Guess what he got in the earlier matchup against them in Chicago?  108 yards. 

 

No, he was 8th among WRs, which was the discussion.  Do the math yourself instead of relying on some faulty website that gives you wrong numbers, and doesn't tell you basic information like how well he performed in games without Thielen and how many yards he got against Chicago earlier in the season, although I suspect that latter 2 are errors on your part more than anything.

 

The "faulty website" is nfl.com.  Let's put aside the fact that, when anyone is discussing "top receivers" any year, they are talking about those with the most yards (excluding any "virtual" yards you conjure up) or receptions, not "YPG"----in 2019, "if you include TEs" (your words) he is at #11.  10 if you take out Kelce.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=0&season=2019&experience=&Submit=Go&archive=false&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&qualified=false

 

I'm curious: do you really believe that, because he got 108 previously, he would get 108 again against Chicago?  After week 8, he had a single game over 100 (1 out of 9 games).  And last year, after going for 126 against Chicago in week 11, he only got 47 (on 8 catches, by the way) in week 17.

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

  

 

Good.  It's good to know you agree about that. 

 

I don't know what you mean by the OBJ  Evans comment.   I, for one, do consider them a push.   I'd take Diggs over OBJ because of their relative attitudes, and I'd call Evans a push because Diggs is more gifted physically (he benefits from being smaller), but Evans makes up for it with sheer will, so far as I can tell.  

 

 

Look at the numbers for OBJ and Evans.  Diggs doesn't compare, statistically, with either.

 

Attitude?  His history clearly states that if Diggs doesn't get the targets, he will act out. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The "faulty website" is nfl.com.  Let's put aside the fact that, when anyone is discussing "top receivers" any year, they are talking about those with the most yards (excluding any "virtual" yards you conjure up) or receptions, not "YPG"----in 2019, "if you include TEs" (your words) he is at #11.  10 if you take out Kelce.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=0&season=2019&experience=&Submit=Go&archive=false&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&qualified=false

 

I'm curious: do you really believe that, because he got 108 previously, he would get 108 again against Chicago?  After week 8, he had a single game over 100 (1 out of 9 games).  And last year, after going for 126 against Chicago in week 11, he only got 47 (on 8 catches, by the way) in week 17.

 

OK, I missed Gallup and Adams.  So he's 10th.  That's still top-10 in yards/game for WR's.  Which I've been saying all-along.

 

The last game is immaterial but I could easily see him getting 75 yards, which he topped in 3 of the last 7 games. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, I missed Gallup and Adams.  So he's 10th.  That's still top-10 in yards/game for WR's.  Which I've been saying all-along.

 

The last game is immaterial but I could easily see him getting 75 yards, which he topped in 3 of the last 7 games. 

 

 

Of course you do.  lol.  So what if he couldn't do what you're claiming the year before against the same team.  THIS year it would happened....because you can SEE it happening!

 

In 2013, Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and Gronkowski were all top 10 in YPG.  Each had fewer than 600 yards.  It's not a thing, doc.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Of course you do.  lol.  So what if he couldn't do what you're claiming the year before against the same team.  THIS year it would happened....because you can SEE it happening!

 

In 2013, Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon and Gronkowski were all top 10 in YPG.  Each had fewer than 600 yards.  It's not a thing, doc.

 

Thanks for the opinion.  But you know what opinions are like.

 

I've destroyed every claim you made about Diggs WEO, from being a top-10 WR, to his stats without Thielen (86 yards/game, BTW) to being the Bills' top FA WR target, and all you're left with is "well, I don't think he'd have gained X amount of yards in the final game" or going back 6 years and using players who played less than half a season to try and disprove that he would have finished top-10 in yards/game.  LOL!  Good one.

 

The only question left is: "why are you doing this"?  The answer is clear.

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Thanks for the opinion.  But you know what opinions are like.

 

I've destroyed every claim you made about Diggs WEO, from being a top-10 WR, to his stats without Thielen (86 yards/game, BTW) to being the Bills' top FA WR target, and all you're left with is "well, I don't think he'd have gained X amount of yards in the final game" or going back 6 years and using players who played less than half a season to try and disprove that he would have finished top-10 in yards/game.  LOL!  Good one.

 

The only question left is: "why are you doing this"?  The answer is clear.

 

Look--we can all agree that he's a great pickup and easily the best guy on the squad, why create a fantasy storyline around it?  He has phenomenal games, the he disappears for stretches.

 

He was a dud in 3 of the games without Thielen (Thielen left the Chiefs game in the 1st and Diggs would go on to have 1 catch for 4 yards) when he should have been eating it up.  He was a dud in the playoffs....on his actual team (as opposed to his virtual/new team).  In the playoffs he's had 3 (of 5 career) games where he accumulated a total of 8 catches for 102 yards.

 

Anyway...

 

I was belittling your YPG life raft.  No one uses that when describing top WRs.  I showed you why.  You can see what those receivers total yardage "worked out to"...if they had played all the games, yet no one was saying they were "top 10".

 

And your claim that having him in the Texans game absolutely wins the game (despite the above).

 

And your "seeing things" in order for them to become true.  

 

And your "against the Bears" example that immediately was disproven with the previous season's result of same scenario.

 

And your goofy habit of creating data that didn't happen, but "would have".

 

 

  

 

 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Look--we can all agree that he's a great pickup and easily the best guy on the squad, why create a fantasy storyline around it?  He has phenomenal games, the he disappears for stretches.

 

He was a dud in 3 of the games without Thielen (Thielen left the Chiefs game in the 1st and Diggs would go on to have 1 catch for 4 yards) when he should have been eating it up.  He was a dud in the playoffs....on his actual team (as opposed to his virtual/new team).  In the playoffs he's had 3 (of 5 career) games where he accumulated a total of 8 catches for 102 yards.

 

Anyway...

 

I was belittling your YPG life raft.  No one uses that when describing top WRs.  I showed you why.  You can see what those receivers total yardage "worked out to"...if they had played all the games, yet no one was saying they were "top 10".

 

And your claim that having him in the Texans game absolutely wins the game (despite the above).

 

And your "seeing things" in order for them to become true.  

 

And your "against the Bears" example that immediately was disproven with the previous season's result of same scenario.

 

And your goofy habit of creating data that didn't happen, but "would have".

 

LOL!  Yeah, I'm the goofy one with the "would haves" when you're claiming Diggs "wouldn't have" gotten X amount of yards in the season finale.  All because YOU provided the link that destroyed YOUR OWN argument that he wasn't a top-10 WR in yards/game.  This after losing the "well he didn't play well without Thielen, causing you to resort to using a singular game against the Chefs.  Then you go off on some fantasy storyline about what people talk about when talking about top-10 WRs.

 

But I'm used to it.  Seen it more times from you than I can remember.  If you want to continue being a pinata, be my guest.  I've made my point repeatedly.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Yeah, I'm the goofy one with the "would haves" when you're claiming Diggs "wouldn't have" gotten X amount of yards in the season finale.  All because YOU provided the link that destroyed YOUR OWN argument that he wasn't a top-10 WR in yards/game.  This after losing the "well he didn't play well without Thielen, causing you to resort to using a singular game against the Chefs.  Then you go off on some fantasy storyline about what people talk about when talking about top-10 WRs.

 

But I'm used to it.  Seen it more times from you than I can remember.  If you want to continue being a pinata, be my guest.  I've made my point repeatedly.

 

Not one game but 3 games.  You know this.

 

And no, I don't get into making up numbers for players in games the didn't play--especially when there is evidence (previous season, same opponent, same final game) that it won't happen.   

 

MY OWN (emphasis yours) argument is that by standard measures, he wasn't a top 10 receiver.  You found another stat that he is top 10 in.  Nice!

 

I'm watching another guy in a press conference now who also favors claiming a win then awkwardly jogs  a victory lap after all the other winners and really all the other competitors are done and in the locker room.  Take your bow, Mr. President!

 

 

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Not one game but 3 games.  You know this.

 

And no, I don't get into making up numbers for players in games the didn't play--especially when there is evidence (previous season, same opponent, same final game) that it won't happen.   

 

MY OWN (emphasis yours) argument is that by standard measures, he wasn't a top 10 receiver.  You found another stat that he is top 10 in.  Nice!

 

I'm watching another guy in a press conference now who also favors claiming a win then awkwardly jogs  a victory lap after all the other winners and really all the other competitors are done and in the locker room.  Take your bow, Mr. President!

 

Top-10 yards/game WEO.  You proved it yourself.  And he didn't have to miss over half the season with injuries, just be rested for one game. 

 

But I'll apply WEO logic to other guys who didn't play all 16 games and say they they wouldn't have hit enough yards and therefore Diggs still finishes top-10. 

 

Isn't this fun?!

[T master]

If Diggs is who they say he is on the field i think there is more than a couple of games the Bills could have won ! For instance the Ravens game, they replayed it the other day on the NFL network & Knox had a drop in the end zone that would have tied the game if Diggs is that good at contested catches that would have ties the game & i think they could have went on to win it .

 

This year will tell if he can add a couple of big catches per game & at least 1 more TD per game that could be all they need to make a deep run in the play offs .

[JustWinPlease]

On 4/5/2020 at 12:46 PM, Putin said:

I think Singletary will be a BEAST this year , having Diggs on the outside will create so much more space for Singletary!!!

 

I have to disagree. I just don't see it with Singletary, he's small and slow. I don't see him as a bellcow capable of carrying the load.

He's a nice piece to have, a solid role player, but this team needs a legitimate RB1 that Singletary can be a complement to.

I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong.

(At the very least, they need competition for him...he shouldn't be the only player on the roster to be handed a starting job just because there's zero depth at RB.)

[Shaw66]

41 minutes ago, JustWinPlease said:

I have to disagree. I just don't see it with Singletary, he's small and slow. I don't see him as a bellcow capable of carrying the load.

He's a nice piece to have, a solid role player, but this team needs a legitimate RB1 that Singletary can be a complement to.

I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong.

(At the very least, they need competition for him...he shouldn't be the only player on the roster to be handed a starting job just because there's zero depth at RB.)

I agree with bellcow point.   He's not the guy who's just going to put burden of the team's rushing needs on his back and just carry that aspect of the team's performance.   I don't see him that dominant.    The style of his game is a Marshall Faulk, Thurman Thomas style - that is, the combination of running and receiving skills is what makes him valuable.   Before people go nuts, no, I'm not saying he's going to be Faulk or Thomas.   What I'm saying is that his style of play is the same as theirs, but I can't see him ever being productive like those guys.  

 

What I can envision is Singletary as the lead dog on a two-dog team.   That is, I think Singletary is too good to be just a complement to the starter.  I think it's the other way around.  

 

Singletary has already shown that he can be a factor in the lineup at pretty much any down and distance.   If you're third and eighteen, Singletary helps if he's on the field, because he's an open field pass catching threat.  If you're third and eight, he helps because he already understands blitz responsibilities and likely will get better.   If it's third and one, he's a threat passing or running.   

 

I think what the Bills need is another guy who can play that style, maybe a rookie who's learning and by mid-season could be expected to spell Singletary without forcing offensive play selection to be limited.     You want him to play the same style, instead a complementary style, because the Bills want to make being multi-faceted a problem for other teams, so the second running back has to be able to run the whole offense without hurting the team.   Think Kenneth Davis.   Now, his running style didn't look much like Thurman's, but that isn't the point.   Davis was valuable because when he came into the game, Kelly could still run the entire offense.   

 

If the Bills win Super Bowl in the coming years, the story about Singletary will be not that he's a star in the league, but it could be that he is a superb competitor with a broad skill set, an important contributor to a winning team.   I think that's his upper limit.

 

Bellcow?  No.  Lead dog on a two-dog team?  I think absolutely.   Needs to improve parts of his game a little bit, but absolutely he can be that guy.